Antisemitism online

[serenada]

Isn't there something we can do? I remember a post on here, years ago, by a mum who was very frightened and her post stood out to me.

It isn't right that the Jewish community have to defend themselves alone here - can't we do something to show support and let people know they are not alone in this?

Jewishness is quite complicated to the layman!

I am Jewish by race in that all my family is exiles from various places and Jewish. But none of us have been of the Jewish faith for generations.

Then there is Israel. A Place that none of my family have visited: I disagree, as do many, with some of its actions. But I am glad it exists and think that it receives too much criticism from some sections of society that ignore similar actions from different states in the same region.

@PhilSwagielka possibly but we didn’t visit there. However that’s one neighbourhood in a whole country, far from the rest of the Middle East where we wouldn’t be welcome to holiday at all. There are many fundamentalist Christian areas (US springs to mind) that would be similar.

@friendlyflicka I think you’ve explained it well. It shocks me that the atrocities other countries in the Middle East commit tend to be left alone while one country which is far more progressive in many ways gets an unfair amount of criticism.

Again this conflates the two issues and is unfair but perhaps it’s because there is only one country in the world where Judaism is the main faith. Maybe that’s why some people find it hard to distinguish. Perhaps I’m being too lenient though as it’s not hard to read up about the issues from a variety of sources. I only know one person who has a Jewish background and is not religious and met her as an adult. But this hasn’t stopped me looking into things. I also think cancel culture is worrying and shuts down any kind of polite debate.

Also not heard much follow up about Wiley’s racist outburst in the media. I’d have thought it would have more coverage.

Perhaps that’s it, the complexity? So, there are historic reasons for Israel, present day issues that people really are only starting to acknowledge regarding colonialism and identity and a sense that as Jewish people are disaporic that a simplified analysis has become acceptable. Instead of addressing the complexities brought on by history society just says ‘that’s the past’ and then communities are left to sort it out themselves.

I am sure that from the 50s onwards it was only Simon Wiesenthal and other Jewish groups that did much in terms of education/awareness.

I'd like to go to Jerusalem - a (non-Jewish) friend of mine went there for archaeology stuff and it sounded amazing. And Israeli food is delicious. It's mainly the travel time (I hate flying) and the possibility of security staff phoning my rabbi.

@VanillaSpiceCandle Did you get on OK at the airport? Sometimes security are oK and other times they give you the third degree.

@PhilSwagielka

I'd like to go to Jerusalem - a (non-Jewish) friend of mine went there for archaeology stuff and it sounded amazing. And Israeli food is delicious. It's mainly the travel time (I hate flying) and the possibility of security staff phoning my rabbi.

@VanillaSpiceCandle Did you get on OK at the airport? Sometimes security are oK and other times they give you the third degree.

Why would they phone your rabbi?

I visited 20 odd years ago @PhilSwagielka

I can’t quite explain how I felt there - it was surreal. Extraordinary, so alive and vibrant. I don’t know what I expected but it had a huge impact on me. I also visited Egypt and likewise the same feeling of being in another time and space - so removed from all we knew in the west, I felt like I had fallen back in time. I lived with Bedouins in the Sinai and their life was traditional (fishing in the Sea, etc). The landscape entering Egypt from Taba was breathtaking - mountainous desert, unchanged for centuries but I think all of the southern Sinai has changed now.

My first visit to Jerusalem, I just couldn’t get my head around. All those biblical pictures of buildings and this picture in my head that was 2000 years old and yet I was there, in old markets, caught in up during the intifada, then later on in restaurants listening to cool, western music with an international crowd.

I still haven’t quite got my mind around it all. The ancientness of that part of the world hits you. I didn’t see much of the North and I would have loved to visit Jordan but the only route was over the Allenby bridge then.

I visited Jerusalem a few years ago and I can honestly say it's the only place I've visited that I felt that photographs don't do it justice.

its seems now if you say anything that criticises Israel you are classed as anti-semitic.

This thread is sad.
Like others, I feel I can’t say positive things about Israel.
And watching my children run through the door to Sunday school surrounded by CCTV, private security, parent security etc is so sad.

@ConcreteUnderpants

But in many ways that is a national and education issue - no child should have to attend school under those circumstances - why isn’t the DfE on it?

Perhaps because ‘it’s only the Jews I guess...Who generally just take it’.

That’s what I’ve heard people say anyway.

I have been troubled by this lately. I posted on some threads around election time saying I didn’t believe Corbyn was personally antisemitic - I now think I was wrong.

Rebecca Long-Bailey’s sacking really opened my eyes. A dear friend who is a kind and well-meaning person just couldn’t, wouldn’t see how the article R L-B retweeted could be construed as antisemitic. I had, immediately on reading it, felt it was and was a little upset by it.

Then I saw some stuff about Israel and the Labour Party on Twitter and I couldn’t stop thinking about my friend and his attitude and how it seemed an ‘acceptable’ left-wing mindset.

I’ve just listened to Julia Neuberger’s book ‘Antisemitism: what it is, what it isn’t, and why it matters’ and feel a little better equipped to hold my ground on the subject with friends. I realised that one of the reasons I felt so uncomfortable was that I saw people ‘supporting Palestine’ as if Palestinians were the only oppressed or suffering people in the world - and Israel, as well as being a target of legitimate criticisms, is singled out and held to impossible standards. I am now reading Bari Weiss’s book How to Fight Anti-Semitism.

I feel ashamed that I didn’t look harder at the antisemitism in the Labour Party last year.

@ConcreteUnderpants

Perhaps because ‘it’s only the Jews I guess...Who generally just take it’.

Is that the perception? It's not acceptable, is it? I don't know what to say. I keep looking at the political parties, the different ideas floating around and I can never find something that says what I feel will move us all forward.

Quite a bit of chatter on Twitter with Baddiel, regarding the Wiley stuff.

the silence on the Wiley recent outburst was screamingly silent in response here on MN unlike say Katie Hopkins but jews aren't always considered inclusive by some under the anti racism umbrella due 'to their power and wealth and running of the banks and media..'

Wileys comments were vile/unacceptable, I’m glad he has been banned from Twitter.

Can’t comment on MN, but I (and some others on twitter) have found it unfair how Twitter were much slower to act on permanently suspending Katie Hopkins/ Milo Yiannopoulos versus Wiley.
Also, recently on BBC news when discussing Wiley’s tweets said they couldn’t show tweets because it could offend viewers (completely understandable) but yesterday morning a reporter found it acceptable to say the hard n word on BBC news.

the silence on the Wiley recent outburst was screamingly silent in response here on MN

Well it was certainly a lot quieter on Wiley than on antisemitism in the Labour Party, a topic on which there were many, many posts in the lead up to the election.

In addition, the Home Secretary was quick to condemn Wileys comments (rightfully so)

However, it’s interesting Priti Patel didn’t have the same energy to condemn Katie Hopkins comments. Hopkins also had a much larger following than Wiley

Re comments on this thread about currently seeing BLM stuff on social media: thinking back to the period before the election, there was a huge amount on all media about antisemitism (almost entirely about the Labour Party).

Meanwhile there wasn't a great deal in that period about racism.

Maybe I just missed it but I don't remember seeing anything under the tag BLM at that time. That was despite the Windrush scandal being a live issue directly relevant to one of the parties running for office.

So these things go in phases as to which gets top priority at a given time.

Those of us who care, carry on caring on all fronts. Sometimes one area or the other has more opportunity for specific action. Just like #MeToo has opened a new opportunity to take action, and indeed Charlie Elphicke, former MP, was convicted today for sexual assaults some years ago.

Of course I can't speak for those who just put up hashtags to follow the latest fad...

Or come to that, for those whose who put up hashtags which they hope will give them useful political leverage, while caring not a jot about the actual group whose rights are a convenient flag. As women we've all seen that one.

perking. No. That wasn't what I meant at all. Many here flocked to defend black people standing against Katie Hopkins vile posts immediately whilst I couldn't help but notice that there were no posts at all on MN for days standing against what Wiley had said. Nothing. I made a point of looking but was not surprised that no one had come on here commenting about his vile comments. Labour party posts have fuck all to do with it.

Agree fully op. I see it eveeywhere out in the open and no one challenges it its just accepted but if it was any other group of people there would be outrage. I have a jewish spelled first name and have had tons of anti semetic comments about it over the years. I once had a man scream abuse at me about how muslims had it worse than jews and no one gives a shit what jews claim to suffer. It was terrifying to be on the end of that. The thought of jewish school kids being scared to go to school in the fucking uk is utterly unforgivable.

Oh i called out the whole bullshit about wiley on facebook and had this rant about rampant anti semeticism and was genuinely called a racist by someone on my fb. Apparently i am not allowed to accuse a black man of racism because i am a racist cunt but wiley is allowed to be a racist anti semetic cunt.

Apparently i am not allowed to accuse a black man of racism because i am a racist cunt but wiley is allowed to be a racist anti semetic cunt.

Whoever called you racist by someone on fb is vile and wrong. I’m very sorry you’ve had to experience this anti semitism

However, Wiley was not ‘allowed’ to be racist and anti Semitic. He was permanently banned from Twitter, dropped by his record label, and condemned by the majority of the black community. Also, although Wiley’s comments were unacceptable, The Guardian still managed to confuse an image of him with Kano. I wonder how they managed that

Of course there may have a been a small minority who may have sided with Wiley, but there’s always going to racist idiots.

OK I've clearly missed recent Hatie Kopkins tweets about black people (lucky me), and also MN condemnation of those.

I do remember her antisemitic tweets a good while back. I was pleased to see how robust the condemnation of her for those was, but it's extremely depressing that despite those she still has supporters on MN.

As a poc who is very much against Wiley’s comments, I don’t find it helpful this idea that ‘you can’t say anything against BLM/muslims/etc but anti semitism is acceptable’

I’m not denying that anti semitism doesn’t exist- of course it does, as do many other forms of racism. I just don’t think it’s helpful to belittle others experiences when describing it

Im a British Jew . Orthodox Ashkenazi heritage on both sides. I’m atheist as are my DBs and as were my late parents. I look typically Jewish and have a Jewish sounding name.

Increasingly I feel I’m not entitled to say I’ve experienced/experience racism due to my white privilege. Because my skin is pale my experience is minimised and I almost feel guilty claiming to have been on the receiving end of prejudice, bullying and unfair treatment in the workplace and that it isnt allowed to even come close to what black people suffer.

I don’t feel antisemitism is any worse than it was when I was growing up. It’s always been bubbling away and flaring up from time to time and I agree the Israel/Palestine situation has given antisemites more of a mandate to voice their prejudice via criticism of the Israel government.
In no way can I condone the occupation of Palestine but it’s assumed I am in some way complicit as I am a Jew and by extension aligned to the conflict. My Jewish identity has always felt like a burden to carry around.