To leave DH over lack of pension

[Champagneforeveryone]

So long story short, DH has been self employed for most of his life, and recently sprung it on me that he has zero pension provision aside from his state pension.

He's 68 now and still working 3 days a week, insists he will "work till he drops". However this will simply not be possible, for one thing his employer is unlikely to pay for him to renew his professional qualifications when they expire, and the work is physically fairly demanding.

He was furloughed during lockdown and loved every moment of it, lamenting about having to return a few weeks ago. Prior to returning to work he's always in a bad mood and complains endlessly about being tired afterwards. I know he's resentful as we live in a fairly well off area where all our older friends and neighbours are retired and living happy and financially comfortable lives.

Today he was telling me about how he has refused to do a job that he was asked, I don't know the ins and outs but by his telling it sounded like he spoke quite rudely to the secretary. He then said that it would be better if they sent him home. This is not the first time it has happened.

It's suddenly occurred to me that if he was sacked then he would have no choice but to "retire", much against my wishes.

With his state pension and my wages we could get by, but it would be a much diminished life and I am resentful that I will be picking up the slack. I think I would feel happier with where we are if he acknowledged it was in any way his fault or attempted to come up with ways to make the situation easier. Predictably he doesn't.

I'm not a gold digger and I don't have extravagant tastes, but I feel increasingly resentful that I will be working harder for a worse quality of life, while DH's poor choices will have little effect on him. I have in the past considered leaving and now wonder whether IABU?

I said OP had assumed he had made provision for a pension.

And this assumption by the OP is where it all went wrong. It is thoroughly bizarre that they have been married 14 years and never had a conversation about retirement and pension provision. This should have been discussed before the marriage along with other discussions about finances.
I also don't know why she assumed he had pension provision when he didn't own a property or have savings.

@VanGoghsDog

There used to be a good ad on TV for a pension company - one was a person with no private pension just literally doing nothing and the other was a woman going to zumba classes etc etc . There was another with a person working and alongside a mini version of them showing their pension . They are out there !

That wasn't (isn't, it's still on) for a pension company, it was to tell people about auto-enrolment. The govt scheme.

Obviously the adverts didn't have much impact.......

Personally I didn't pay much attention as I'm all sorted .

I suspect the Op has left in a hurry because she didn’t realise if she divorces her husband he will get her pension.

I think it is more likely that she got fed up of being called a selfish gold digger and being told that she was lucky that her husband ‘took her on’.

Or that she was cruel to expect an elderly man (68 is not elderly!) to carry on working in a manual job. She makes reference to him having a secretary in her early posts. He’s hardly likely to be breaking rocks at the roadside, is he?

Despite that, this has been one of the most interesting debates I’ve read for a long time.

Sounds like a mid 50s man with no property, no savings, no investments and no pension needed a retirement plan and he found it in a wife 20 years younger. So presumably his retirement plan all along was for op to bank roll it and be his carer as required.

Sorry op, looks like he stitched you up like a right kipper!!

She makes reference to him having a secretary in her early posts. He’s hardly likely to be breaking rocks at the roadside, is he?

I think it was the secretary in the company he works, presumably that person gives out the jobs to the workforce. Not his own secretary.

So many assumptions made here. For a start that husbands are always happy with their wife's decision to work PT when it's often a reason for them asking for a divorce.

That women who are sahm or work PT deal with all the childcare and housework.

That working PT is an evidence and working FT an aberration when million of mums do exactly that.

There are so many double standards here, but then again, it's just typical Mumsnet.

Funny how a couple of days ago, a woman posted about asking taking her partner for more money and many responded that he should pay the equivalent of tax credits she lost by moving in together, and they are not even married and he isn't the father of the children.

But here, there is no mention of OP making up for the pension credit he would otherwise receive if he wasn't living with OP.

The reality is when people get together at later stage in life, when there are children involved, property, different incomes, pensions, inheritance, etc..., there is almost always, inevitably who will benefit financially from the union whilst the other person isn't.

Yet many women here assume that when it's the man losing out, it's expected because he made the commitment and that comes with it. When it's the woman, she shouldn't have to share anything because her priority should be to protect herself financially.

@Cyw2018

Sounds like a mid 50s man with no property, no savings, no investments and no pension needed a retirement plan and he found it in a wife 20 years younger. So presumably his retirement plan all along was for op to bank roll it and be his carer as required.

Sorry op, looks like he stitched you up like a right kipper!!

He is 68, not in his fifties.

Lots of people agreed she had grounds to be concerned.

I didn't come across anyone thinking her husband was a manual worker; she said he has to pay to belong to a professional body which made me think he was something like a surveyor, a job which entails a degree of physical activity (my husband was one).

He probably earns a good whack and will continue to do so for some time, if only as a consultant.

jessstan2

He is 68, they have been together 14 years, 68 - 14 =54

Therefore a mid 50s man made that decision.

Op said he had an employer (professional qualification update) and was self employed. Can not legally be both. I cannot believe anyone has a husband aged 54 when they married didn’t think about retirement. Very odd.

I assumed that he had been self-employed in the past but was now employed. ‘Self employed’ in the truest sense means that you operate as an individual, not through a limited company, and that you declare your income from your trade on your income tax return. If you are operating through a limited company you should, strictly speaking, have set up a payroll scheme in the company and be paying yourself through it. So I assume that he did one of those things and was then offered a salaried role with his current employer. He must be on the payroll, otherwise he wouldn’t have been in a position to opt out of their pension scheme (madness, turning down employer contributions).

@Cyw2018

jessstan2

He is 68, they have been together 14 years, 68 - 14 =54

Therefore a mid 50s man made that decision.

Oh yes, I get that.

However the op says she loves him and presumably he loved her at the time which is more important than future finances (and some people never reach!). They built a home and a life together which must count for something and there's no reason to suppose the man will be destitute and incapacitated in the near future.

The thing is a 54-year-old man (eg dh!!) looks a lot better than a 68-year-old, not just physically but financially. The years have a nasty habit of sneaking up on you.

The OP should have done an audit on her dh, but she didn’t, and she is where she is. Unusually it’s more often the case that a younger woman hooks up with a wealthy (or at least solvent) older man. Wrinkly and rich = tolerable; wrinkly and poor= ciao !!

I really hope the op and her husband find a solution to this, it sounds as though they've had a good few years of being a happy family.

Op said he had an employer (professional qualification update) and was self employed. Can not legally be both

Yes you can. Easily.

In the past I have had a part time employed job, done other work via my own Ltd company (not employed by co, only taking dividends not salary) and done a different, unconnected, role on a self employed basis ALL AT ONCE. It's perfectly acceptable.

Not that it matters - the op has been very clear: he used to be self employed and is now employed.

Yup, I'm employed and self-employed at the same time.
Not impossible.
I interpreted the OP as the DH having been self-employed but is now no longer self-employed and is instead working for an employer.

Loads of people have an employer but are self employed. Contractors of many kinds- engineers/ IT./journalists to name a few.

You can be contracted to provide a number of hour's work or whatever it may be but you are set up as self-employed, possibly with your own company, and do your own accounts.

@jesstan Of course he could be a manual worker. He could be a tree surgeon, a taxi driver, a JCB or fork lift truck driver, or operating any kind of machinery at all, and they all might need re-registration at any time to keep up with new legislation.

CMMum88
You do not need to pay for council tax as she would be entitled to council tax help.

Also I'd she downsize a to a small modern place then maintenance costs would be neglible.

You are late 40's and he is 68? A 20 year age gap?
When did you meet? Get married? Kids? How old are the kids?

@Oblomov20

You are late 40's and he is 68? A 20 year age gap? When did you meet? Get married? Kids? How old are the kids?

Has it occured to you to read the OP's posts? All of this is conveniently covered.

Every builder I know, I know about 40 or so, and both my bil's included, worked like a dog, on their own home, and other houses, and bought a portfolio of buy-to-let's over the last 30 years.
Now neither of them , bil's, can barely walk for all the hard work they've done over the last 40 years.

Clearly OP's Dh was not of this ilk.

So humbly sorry Van Gogh!
Re-read now.

Of course you can be self employed and PAYE aswell!

Don't forget he may have contributed to Serpps, my dad did & when he passed away my mum got awarded extra pension, she gets a lot more than £10k a year now.

@BubblyBarbara

The State Pension is more than enough to potter around doing some garden and watching TV, reading books, doing puzzles, etc. Being retired is about relaxing, not spending lots of money and going all over the place (though you do get a free bus pass if the urge comes).

Very funny - course it is. Who would want to do anything but potter around when they suddenly get to retirement?