To leave DH over lack of pension

[Champagneforeveryone]

So long story short, DH has been self employed for most of his life, and recently sprung it on me that he has zero pension provision aside from his state pension.

He's 68 now and still working 3 days a week, insists he will "work till he drops". However this will simply not be possible, for one thing his employer is unlikely to pay for him to renew his professional qualifications when they expire, and the work is physically fairly demanding.

He was furloughed during lockdown and loved every moment of it, lamenting about having to return a few weeks ago. Prior to returning to work he's always in a bad mood and complains endlessly about being tired afterwards. I know he's resentful as we live in a fairly well off area where all our older friends and neighbours are retired and living happy and financially comfortable lives.

Today he was telling me about how he has refused to do a job that he was asked, I don't know the ins and outs but by his telling it sounded like he spoke quite rudely to the secretary. He then said that it would be better if they sent him home. This is not the first time it has happened.

It's suddenly occurred to me that if he was sacked then he would have no choice but to "retire", much against my wishes.

With his state pension and my wages we could get by, but it would be a much diminished life and I am resentful that I will be picking up the slack. I think I would feel happier with where we are if he acknowledged it was in any way his fault or attempted to come up with ways to make the situation easier. Predictably he doesn't.

I'm not a gold digger and I don't have extravagant tastes, but I feel increasingly resentful that I will be working harder for a worse quality of life, while DH's poor choices will have little effect on him. I have in the past considered leaving and now wonder whether IABU?

You never know what life brings. As it is, he has no pension and you'll have to support him.

It could have gone differently, ie. You will a limiting illness having to stop working, him getting an unexpected large inheritance from an old aunt.

How would you feel if in the second scenario he decided to leave you because he found out you never took critical illness cover?

Many people is age never thought of paying towards a private pension, just like not enough people nowadays thing of taking critical illness cover.

You are as responsible to have never discussed your future financial circumstances in the last 14 years.

OP you are getting unreasonably harsh responses. While it is odd that you didn’t know or do anything about the situation earlier, it is what it is. And you are at a disadvantage. It seems though that his dismissive behaviour about his financial future is what’s bothering you more. Which means that if you want to leave, it’s not because of lack of pension, it’s because there are deeper issues there.

Let's say he gets half her pension - the next 20 years of her pension contributions will be much larger than the first simply because she wasn't as financially aware in her youth and also would have spent some time on lower salary with a small child. I'll point out that this isn't the same as a woman in his position as she will have done the bulk of child and house work whilst also working full time. Separation bluntly underlined to me just house expensive men can be to feed and house. Even gas, water, petrol, beer etc.

I've known men like this and he will never save, never buy a house, it will always be tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, until he dies comfortably in old age and the OP finds herself struggling to ever retire. No matter how "nice" he might be, the financial stonewalling (and sometimes active obstruction) is highly damaging and will prevent any sensible plans for the future.

I've been there, I'm relieved to be free of mine and am already repairing the damage at speed. OP, speak with a couple of good family solicitors, see what they say and run the numbers. You might find you are able to leave.

I would point out to PPs that the OP married her H when her child from a previous relationship was 2. The OP stated earlier:

I love him and he is a good (if not an easy) man.

There is clearly a subtext there which puts the power less in OPs hands and more in her Hs. My guess is that she was at a low ebb when they got together when her son was an infant and the fog has only cleared now that her son is nearly grown up.

Just to add here retirement is something that gets to everyone eventually and yes for many it does mean a reduction in lifestyle ( but not all ) . Because you are married to an older man @Champagneforeveryone this time has arrived now . Many people live life with no thought to the future and I have seen through my H's sister what kind of shit this can get you into . This is a reminder to everyone to look at what kind of future they face . Pension ages are increasing all the time and if you don't have a mortgage free home and even if you do like my SIL a Gov pension alone is not enough to live on . Yes this is something that should have been discussed years ago but too late for that . It's sad to see that you see this as picking up the slack - many a man might have thought that about bringing up someone else's son .Many a man might have thought that about a wife who was a part time worker . We all make choices in life .

Not saying that you are a part time worker . I'm talking in general about relationships.

OP is getting "harsh" replies because she is revealing a grubby and selfish mindset.

The replies telling her she is being taken advantage of and her husband is using her as a meal ticket are actually laughable.

He should leave her. Even if she sticks around the rest of his life will be with someone who resents him. I'd take state pension and housing benefit living alone any day over sharing a life with someone whose attitude to family finances is like hers.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

It’s not grubby or selfish to be worried about working full time over the next 15 years whilst supporting a 68 year old man who is ‘not easy’ and will need financial support and probably caring for in the future. He frittered away his own money and will probably expect to fritter any that OP will earn.

OP, don’t assume you need to give him half your pension, see a solicitor.

He will be entitled to help if he is a single man, including Pension Credit, so the court would take that into account.

It's suddenly occurred to me that if he was sacked then he would have no choice but to "retire", much against my wishes.

This is the crucial line ^^.

The OP wishes her DH now 68 and doing a physically demanding job (albeit part time) to keep going so she can have the same income they have always had.

@Champagneforeveryone If your H draws his pension (state) he will perhaps have as much income as he does now with his 3 days a week at work. Hard to say without knowing his income.

What did you expect him to do? Work till he was 80 by which time you could retire?

Surely when you married a much older man, the penny dropped and you realised this was on the cards?

FWIW I know a couple where there is a bigger age gap than yours. He is a stay at home dad (they have young kids) and she works full time. He has a decent pension from his previous job but they do need her income too.

You don't seem to love your H very much I'm afraid.

@honeygirlz Is that how you think marriages work? One person working to support the other and feeling resentful?

He's her husband FGS!

Why should she retire at 40-odd? If she was single she'd need to work. If she was married a man her own age, she'd presumably work or even want to work!

You have no evidence he frittered away his income. It was, anyway, JOINT income- in a marriage most couples make joint decisions over what they do with their income. It's the OP who took no interest at all till recently.

My guess is she married him as he provided a roof over hear head when she was a single parent, didn't push to save , buy, invest when the going was good. Now she's having 2nd thoughts owing to the age gap.

I've paid into a pension including AVCs throughout my working life. Problem is I've worked in fairly low page jobs and the pension isn't great.

My husband's pension is much better than mine, presumably I should anticipate him divorcing me at retirement age because I'll be having to live off of him?

Ops husband is now 68 and she's in her 40s. I'm getting the feeling that she's starting to realise the age difference and that she is married to someone who is starting to enter old age. I think this is what this is about. It's no so much the drop in income and how it will affect their lifestyle it's about how his age will affect their lifestyle.

No doubt being a thirty year old married to a fifty year old the age gap isn't so noticeable but when op is 50 he's going to be getting on for mid 70s. Is he going to be wanting to do all of the things op wants to do, even if they could afford them? Maybe he will. My parents are over 80 and they've only just started to slow down but I'm not sure they would have kept up with someone 20 years younger despite being really active.

Today he was telling me about how he has refused to do a job that he was asked, I don't know the ins and outs but by his telling it sounded like he spoke quite rudely to the secretary.
Why don't you bother to ask about the ins and outs? It may be that your DH wasn't rude either. Sometimes in re-telling, the incident comes across differently. Why assume he was rude or in the wrong?

recently sprung it on me that he has zero pension provision aside from his state pension.
You haven't ever discussed this. Do you communicate at all?

Prior to returning to work he's always in a bad mood and complains endlessly about being tired afterwards.
If he'd had a fair amount of time off he is bound to feel tired when re-starting a job that is physically demanding, more so because he is 68.

I think YABU to consider leaving him over him not having a private pension.
For richer, for poorer?
I think that when you married him, when he was 54 and you were in your 30s you should have considered that you would probably still be working when he retired. I assume you didn't just marry him so that you could live in a 2-income household?

If you want to leave him for other reasons then fair enough but surely not just because he doesn't have a private pension. What does that say about you?

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@damnthatanxiety Would you say the same about a woman who had given a lot of years to caring for the children as H travelled the world sometimes 7 days a week.

I have a small occupational pension, although I have worked for over 40 years, but mainly part time as H earned more and I did the child care. I was a professional.

I am now 'fortunate' to benefit from DH's very good final salary pension.

Do I see him as my pension pot? Yes, if you want to see it like that. But we are a team - we divided up the roles of earning and caring.That's how a marriage should be.[/quote]
Your situation is completely different. You sound like you have built a life together and made joint decisions about finances. People can do what they want - there are no rules. As long as both people are happy then people can knock themselves out living their life. Your contribution was equal to your Hs. His generated income and pension, yours was to raise the family and run the household. In the OPs case, they BOTHbeen earning and both contributing equally in all areas but have been together where the DH will have been earning for probably(no idea - he could drop tomorrow) for way less time that she will be supporting him.This would be fine if they were both happy with this. The OP is clearly not happy and she is not happy because unlike her, the H has made no provision for his retirement. His provision was 'I will keep working' and now he doesn't want to. Can't see how you would see your situation as in any way comparable.

@dontdisturbmenow

You never know what life brings. As it is, he has no pension and you'll have to support him.

It could have gone differently, ie. You will a limiting illness having to stop working, him getting an unexpected large inheritance from an old aunt.

How would you feel if in the second scenario he decided to leave you because he found out you never took critical illness cover?

Many people is age never thought of paying towards a private pension, just like not enough people nowadays thing of taking critical illness cover.

You are as responsible to have never discussed your future financial circumstances in the last 14 years.

Critical illness is a gamble. Most people won't get critically ill. Everyone will grow old. Odd analogy

She is his retirement plan. She is his pension. Because he will now live off her for the next 20-30 years, she will be poorer when her turn comes to retire. They both have worked so they have probably equally contributed to their (humble) lifestyle until now but now for the rest of HIS life, she will support him. If she wasn't around, he would not be able to rent where they currently live. He would have to probably go into a state funded home as he only has his state pension. His pension will not cover his half of their bills. The son will probably move out in 2-3 years and it will be just them. Her paying for 90% of everything for the next 20-30 years and then having poverty to look forward to when she retires and he is gone because all her earnings when to supporting him and not into her own retirement fund. Who gets to 68 with no plan other than to live off their partner? Their union is too short for her to fund hin for the next 2-3 decades. GET IT?

@damnthatanxiety oh I GET IT alright. Why are you shouting? You think she is his retirement plan, I think he is her current lifestyle plan and now that it’s in jeopardy, she wants to bail.
You’re just making stuff up about them making equal contributions to date and her paying 90% of costs for 20-30 years. He’s 68. You seem to think he’ll outlive average life expectancy.

It surely can’t have come as a surprise to the OP that a man 20 years her senior would be retiring while she was still in the workforce. If that did come as a surprise to her, it says an awful lot about her. And for all she and others berate him for his lack of financial planning, she doesn’t seem to have arrived in her 40s with much financial nous either, given what she says about her circumstances.

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. The OP, you and others are making it sound like a business arrangement.

JinglingHellsBells you've made so many assumptions. The OP has not said she wants to stop working so stop attacking her for it. You have also attacked her for marrying her to get a roof over her head. Big judgement of single mother's there. I assume she had a roof over her head and she has made it clear that they haven't lived a lavish life for the past 14 years so why are you painting her as a caricature evil money grabbing gold digger? If she was, do you think she would have married a modest earning guy? No. She is just understandably angry to find out he has made no provision for his retirement and has changed his mind about working into his 70s as he planned to pay for his retirement. Instead he sees her as his pension plan. Any reasonable person would be pissed off

sammylady37 she isn't angry that he is retiring before her. She is angry that he has made no provision for his retirement. Who does this?? Who doesn't plan for their retirement? Contrary to your assertion that she is equally financially inept, she has said she does put into a pension. You also say I think he is her current lifestyle plan...what lifestyle?? The OP has made it clear that they live a modest and humble life. Presumably she was not living in a gutter when they met, it doesn't sound like much of an uplift. Stop judging single mothers are wasters who need a man to make their lifestyle better. Nope, you have made up all sorts of assumptions about the OP based on what I can only presume is your negative judgement of single mothers.

I think the op and her husband will be fine, he is not going to be completely penniless after all. People manage somehow if they really want to. It all depends how committed the op is to her husband. She has said she loves him.

It's a shame he didn't pay into a pension scheme but he is not alone there unfortunately and at various times in my life (I'm retired), people have been advised not to. Presumably he has earned a reasonable salary throughout their marriage and probably has savings.

@damnthatanxiety

You also say I think he is her current lifestyle plan...what lifestyle?? The OP has made it clear that they live a modest and humble life. Presumably she was not living in a gutter when they met, it doesn't sound like much of an uplift. Stop judging single mothers are wasters who need a man to make their lifestyle better. Nope, you have made up all sorts of assumptions about the OP based on what I can only presume is your negative judgement of single mothers

Ehh, the lifestyle they’re currently living. Which they’ve both contributed to. So she has benefitted from him, as he has from her. That typically happens in a marriage, it’s usually mutually beneficial, nothing unusual there. Except the op seems to want to wipe the slate clean in this business-minded approach she has. I haven’t said anything about her being a single mother needing a man, nor have I judged her for being a single mother, that’s all on you, you’re the one who brought that into the discussion with me. I couldn’t give a fuck whether the op was a single mother of 1 or of 11, the principle of her abhorrent attitude towards her husband still stands.

But given your slightly hysterical approach to posting and the fact you’re making up bullshit to suit your narrative, I won’t engage any further with you on this topic. Enjoy shouting into the ether.

When you marry anyone older than yourself whether male or female (though mostly it is man that is older) it is obvious they will reach retirement age before you and unless you are going to retire early so you tretire together that there will be a number of years when thye are retired and you are still working.

No-one's retirement income is as big as pre retirement income even with gold plated final salary pension with full service ie teacher doctor etc it will still at best be 50-70% of previous, this drop in income may or may not matter depending on outgoings but it is going to happen it was not an unforeseen event and so should have factored in planning.

My DH reaches states pension age in 7 years time I don't reach it for 14 years however I can take 80% of my final salary pension at 60 as that was in previous scheme; so I will and we will retire at same time, DH is self employed and intends carrying on but maybe with less hours fewer projects but he has a much much lower pension than me as has changed jobs frequently he has enough contributuions for full state pension, I need 3.5 more years

the OP has always known he would retire first, common sense would have told her income would drop maybe not as much as she expected as she thought he had a private pension as well as state but he can claim his full state pension now and carry on working but pension is 4k less than personal allowance so there would be no tax to pay until any income exceeded 4K over and above state pension

[quote honeygirlz]@Iwalkinmyclothing

It’s not grubby or selfish to be worried about working full time over the next 15 years whilst supporting a 68 year old man who is ‘not easy’ and will need financial support and probably caring for in the future. He frittered away his own money and will probably expect to fritter any that OP will earn.

OP, don’t assume you need to give him half your pension, see a solicitor.

He will be entitled to help if he is a single man, including Pension Credit, so the court would take that into account.[/quote]
She will certainly need to give him some of it !

A 68 year old who has worked all his life will have substantial state pension. Has he not claimed this yet ?

You also need to do a pension credit calculation. Putting in your wages and his state pension. You maybe entitled to something because you pay rent.

The turn2us website has a calculator.

A 68 year old who has worked all his life will have substantial state pension.

There is no "substantial* state pension, the maximum is about £9k pa.

If your H draws his pension (state) he will perhaps have as much income as he does now with his 3 days a week at work. Hard to say without knowing his income.

People have some odd expectations of the state pension.

State pension is c£9k pa. If he earned that in his part time role, he'd be earning £15k if he did that role full time. Which is more or less minimum wage. Seems pretty unlikely he was earning such a low wage. I'd image he'd be more likely to be earning over double that - £35k-£40k, so three fifths of that on three days a week.

So, maybe £25k part time? Dropping to £9k once he retires or gets sacked. It is a big difference.

@Champagneforeveryone

Has he actually claimed any of his state pension, or has he deferred? It's not automatically paid out - it has to be claimed or its automatically deferred and accrues interest after a minimum period

www.gov.uk/deferring-state-pension

www.pensionwise.gov.uk/en/state-pension
Or speak to Citizens Advice

@damnthatanxiety If you read her first post, it's clear she doesn't want to be supporting him as the main bread winner. That's the whole point and you seem to see it as an 'assumption'!

She has said she doesn't want him to sit on his arse all day ( when she is working???) Have you read the thread?

I am not criticisng single mothers per se, but it's also clear that when they married when she was 35, she brought nothing t o the marriage in terms of property or equity to buy a home with her DH.

And now, she is resentful that she will have to work so that her wage and his state pension will provide an income.

He is probably in a job that is manual- she says that- so he won't have a company pension we assume. Did she never talk to him about this or suggest they used her income and his over the last 14 to invest in a private pension for him? No.

Why should he take all the blame when in fact he's carried on as he was when she met him, and she's just woken up to what this means now when he is 68?