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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To leave DH over lack of pension

417 replies

Champagneforeveryone · 29/07/2020 11:12

So long story short, DH has been self employed for most of his life, and recently sprung it on me that he has zero pension provision aside from his state pension.

He's 68 now and still working 3 days a week, insists he will "work till he drops". However this will simply not be possible, for one thing his employer is unlikely to pay for him to renew his professional qualifications when they expire, and the work is physically fairly demanding.

He was furloughed during lockdown and loved every moment of it, lamenting about having to return a few weeks ago. Prior to returning to work he's always in a bad mood and complains endlessly about being tired afterwards. I know he's resentful as we live in a fairly well off area where all our older friends and neighbours are retired and living happy and financially comfortable lives.

Today he was telling me about how he has refused to do a job that he was asked, I don't know the ins and outs but by his telling it sounded like he spoke quite rudely to the secretary. He then said that it would be better if they sent him home. This is not the first time it has happened.

It's suddenly occurred to me that if he was sacked then he would have no choice but to "retire", much against my wishes.

With his state pension and my wages we could get by, but it would be a much diminished life and I am resentful that I will be picking up the slack. I think I would feel happier with where we are if he acknowledged it was in any way his fault or attempted to come up with ways to make the situation easier. Predictably he doesn't.

I'm not a gold digger and I don't have extravagant tastes, but I feel increasingly resentful that I will be working harder for a worse quality of life, while DH's poor choices will have little effect on him. I have in the past considered leaving and now wonder whether IABU?

OP posts:
ScrapThatThen · 29/07/2020 21:23

You can leave for any reason you want. Your assets will need to be shared.

damnthatanxiety · 29/07/2020 21:46

@doityourselfnow

You can sit around when you're 68 OP! Simple! Enjoy the rest of your working life.
No, she can't. You miss the point entirely. BECAUSE he has made zero provision for HIS retirement, the OP will have to fund him as well as her therefore she has not got the ability now to save for HER retirement (by which time, he will likely be long gone). So the OP will now look forward to scrimping through her dotage because whilst she is financing him through old age, he will not be around to do the same for her. GET IT????
Warpdrive · 29/07/2020 21:58

Did you say 'For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer' when you married him?

I think it is so sad that a) you dont see yourselves as a partnership and b) you won't support him being semi-retired if it gets too much. You sound focussed on money only but there is more to marriage than a pension.

conduitoffortune · 29/07/2020 22:07

*Did you say 'For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer' when you married him?

I think it is so sad that a) you dont see yourselves as a partnership and b) you won't support him being semi-retired if it gets too much. You sound focussed on money only but there is more to marriage than a pension.*

What the fuck? Why does he get off scot free in your attribution of blame? Why aren't you considering how HE doesn't see him and his wife as a partnership and asking why he expects his wife to shoulder all of the financial responsibility for them both? He's leaving all of the responsibilities to his wife with no regard for how this will impact upon her, where's HIS sense of partnership?

How is she overly focused on money? She wouldn't be in a relationship with a man who works part time and is on the verge of retirement if she's so materialistic as you suggest. She is understandably concerned about living hand to mouth.

For better, for worse is such a bullshit phrase. Does it have a blanket translation? Does it apply when your partner is emotionally, financially, or sexually abusive? Or controlling? Or an alcoholic or drug user? Or a shit, neglectful parent? Or a criminal? Or sulky and disengaged? Or selfish? Stop trotting it out, it's unhelpful

Figmentofmyimagination · 29/07/2020 22:14

How does pension splitting on a divorce actually work? This OP is in her 40s, so her pension won’t be worth very much atm - and whether it grows at all post divorce will be contingent on lots of things eg not getting made redundant, sick etc.

OTOH, if he has to wait until her retirement age to benefit from her pension, this guy will probably be dead, given the age difference.

How is the pension value actually calculated in this sort of scenario?

Timesdone · 29/07/2020 22:20

Somebody asked above about transferring pension out of a defined benefit/final salary scheme. I'm make no claims to be a financial advisor or to having any in depth knowledge but if you do go down that route check, check and check again before you do anything. Don't do anything that could risk it. This type of pension is usually regarded as the gold plated standard, the stuff of dreams in pension terms. Be very careful about what you do and who you consult for advice. Check, check and check again that you fully understand anything and everything that you sign up to if you go down this route.

Pleasebeaflesbite · 29/07/2020 22:26

You do seem rather excitable @damnthatanxiety Grin

OP does say she has made reasonable provision for retirement already

MulberryPeony · 29/07/2020 22:34

It was @Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow i think @Timesdone.

I used an IFA but as you don’t know me from Adam (and I might just want to steal your pension like those radio adverts) best to ask your trusted family and friends for a recommendation. We were just going to up our pensions but ended up doing a full on financial review and it was good to have some external perspective but that might not be for everyone!

TheStuffedPenguin · 29/07/2020 22:35

@Figmentofmyimagination

How does pension splitting on a divorce actually work? This OP is in her 40s, so her pension won’t be worth very much atm - and whether it grows at all post divorce will be contingent on lots of things eg not getting made redundant, sick etc.

OTOH, if he has to wait until her retirement age to benefit from her pension, this guy will probably be dead, given the age difference.

How is the pension value actually calculated in this sort of scenario?

She will have to get a value (The CETV) on her pension currently and it is written on her side on Form E. His state pension value will be in his box opposite . They will look to equalise that which will mean a portion of her pension being taken . This happens on divorce - he does not have to wait until she retires.
doityourselfnow · 29/07/2020 22:39

@damnthatanxiety you DO NOT need to use. UPPER car to MAKE point!

She won't need to carry on working, if like her DH she can't because her employer won't continue employment. They can

Downsize
He may be dead
They can reduce outgoings
If he is dead she won't need to find him

GET IT???????????!!?

Pleasebeaflesbite · 29/07/2020 22:39

@Figmentofmyimagination

How does pension splitting on a divorce actually work? This OP is in her 40s, so her pension won’t be worth very much atm - and whether it grows at all post divorce will be contingent on lots of things eg not getting made redundant, sick etc.

OTOH, if he has to wait until her retirement age to benefit from her pension, this guy will probably be dead, given the age difference.

How is the pension value actually calculated in this sort of scenario?

It depends on the type of pension. If OP has a defined contribution pot, a percentage of it is given to XDH and he can access it immediately if he wishes, as he is over minimum pension age, either as a lump sum or used to buy a pension.

The percentage given to him might end up being more than 50% if he can demonstrate a need for the income and because OP has scope to rebuild her pot and time for it to grow

If it is a defined benefit scheme and he takes the appropriate advice he would be advised to obtain an actuarial report which would focus on providing an equitable outcome between the parties. Again, this could well result in him getting a much bigger proportion of the value for similar reasons as above

All of the above would have to be looked at in the context of other marital assets

doityourselfnow · 29/07/2020 22:41

@damnthatanxiety

DO YOU GET IT!??????????

You need to calm down and start thinking rationally!

Jeez!!!

Cadent · 29/07/2020 22:56

Sounds like you're a reasonably young woman in your 40s stuck with a 68yo Peter Pan.

What is he like as a husband? Are you doing all the housework/cooking/life admin at home? Your frustration is going to increase as he gets older and you end up having to work full time + do everything at home + be his carer.

If you are going to leave, leave now.

Cadent · 29/07/2020 22:56

@Lobelia123

You are absolutely not unreasonable. Marriage or any kind of serious committed relationship is a partnership, not a dictatorship or a welfare state. Looks like far from being a gold digger, you are his meal ticket

Agreed

Tillygetsit · 29/07/2020 23:07

So you value your marriagr in monetary terms? How shallow

roarfeckingroar · 29/07/2020 23:11

It seems so unfair that OP will have to fund his poor choices. 15 years isn't that long; why should he get half her pension?!

managedmis · 29/07/2020 23:17

So even if it is a private pension I.. E. NHS, let's say, OP would have to keep working but her OH could draw on it?

Have I got that right?

managedmis · 29/07/2020 23:19

The percentage given to him might end up being more than 50% if he can demonstrate a need for the income and because OP has scope to rebuild her pot and time for it to grow

^

How is this fair? I'm totally bamboozled

DisneyMillie · 29/07/2020 23:34

I wouldn’t leave purely for that reason but I can understand being angry - I was really cross when I found out DH had never paid into a pension and he was only 40.

notapizzaeater · 29/07/2020 23:42

@managedmis

So even if it is a private pension I.. E. NHS, let's say, OP would have to keep working but her OH could draw on it?

Have I got that right?

Yes you need to get an actuary to value it (new and future value) in my mums case because she wasn't working (already at retire,ent age) and dad still had 10 years to work they worked out what my dads would be worth at retirement and my mum was awarded 72% share of his pensions which she had immediate access to.
fflelp · 29/07/2020 23:54

The real problem here OP is that you married a much older man with no financial intelligence and so now you find you will be funding him for decades.

I don't think the OP has much financial intelligence either. If she had, she would have been questioning his retirement plans long ago. In fact, this sort of thing should have been discussed before the marriage.
Also, the OP has got to late 40s without owning a property and without savings. We have no idea how this came about as we don't know what her life history is. The DH has no property and no savings and no pension either. The OP is annoyed with him because of this and saying it's his fault etc. Whose fault is it then that the OP also has no property or savings? At least she has some kind of pension plan in place so that's a bit better than the DH at least.

The whole thing is a right mess and it should be a lesson to all of the rest of us when embarking on relationships a bit later on in life. It's not very romantic but people need to be financially compatible. Also people embarking on age gap relationships need to be very aware of what they are getting themselves into.

VanGoghsDog · 30/07/2020 01:20

@managedmis

So even if it is a private pension I.. E. NHS, let's say, OP would have to keep working but her OH could draw on it?

Have I got that right?

Yes, exactly what happened to my sister.

It was a public sector pension (not NHS), they got a valuation, she was awarded x% which was £y, which then had to be moved to a personal pension in her name (no longer final salary, she lost all that protection) and she can start drawing whenever she wants as she is over 55 and it is now HER pension. He cannot draw from HIS pension because he is not 55 yet.

VanGoghsDog · 30/07/2020 01:21

@roarfeckingroar

It seems so unfair that OP will have to fund his poor choices. 15 years isn't that long; why should he get half her pension?!
Because they got married. It's not even small print, it's the main deal you agree to.
VanGoghsDog · 30/07/2020 01:27

@Timesdone

Somebody asked above about transferring pension out of a defined benefit/final salary scheme. I'm make no claims to be a financial advisor or to having any in depth knowledge but if you do go down that route check, check and check again before you do anything. Don't do anything that could risk it. This type of pension is usually regarded as the gold plated standard, the stuff of dreams in pension terms. Be very careful about what you do and who you consult for advice. Check, check and check again that you fully understand anything and everything that you sign up to if you go down this route.
If it's worth over £30k you can't transfer it out without getting independent financial advice anyway, that's the law.

It's different on divorce though. The scheme my ex bil had only transferred out as cash, there was no option for my sister to keep the final salary pension at all. I even wrote directly to the government actuary to double check she couldn't just have a hived off portion in the scheme, but she couldn't.

VanGoghsDog · 30/07/2020 01:34

@JinglingHellsBells

Also *@VanGoghsDog* the benefit of deferring taking a pension aren't so good now. We could easily afford to defer both our state pensions but haven't been advised to do so, as investments in some schemes outweigh the increase of deferring.
That's a different issue.

You said "he should be drawing it". All I said was that he doesn't have to, he can defer it if he wants to.

I doubt very much that a man who has made zero pension provision suddenly going to discover the smarts to be able to invest in a better pension than a deferred state pension though!
He possibly just decided not to draw it until he stops working!