To leave DH over lack of pension

[Champagneforeveryone]

So long story short, DH has been self employed for most of his life, and recently sprung it on me that he has zero pension provision aside from his state pension.

He's 68 now and still working 3 days a week, insists he will "work till he drops". However this will simply not be possible, for one thing his employer is unlikely to pay for him to renew his professional qualifications when they expire, and the work is physically fairly demanding.

He was furloughed during lockdown and loved every moment of it, lamenting about having to return a few weeks ago. Prior to returning to work he's always in a bad mood and complains endlessly about being tired afterwards. I know he's resentful as we live in a fairly well off area where all our older friends and neighbours are retired and living happy and financially comfortable lives.

Today he was telling me about how he has refused to do a job that he was asked, I don't know the ins and outs but by his telling it sounded like he spoke quite rudely to the secretary. He then said that it would be better if they sent him home. This is not the first time it has happened.

It's suddenly occurred to me that if he was sacked then he would have no choice but to "retire", much against my wishes.

With his state pension and my wages we could get by, but it would be a much diminished life and I am resentful that I will be picking up the slack. I think I would feel happier with where we are if he acknowledged it was in any way his fault or attempted to come up with ways to make the situation easier. Predictably he doesn't.

I'm not a gold digger and I don't have extravagant tastes, but I feel increasingly resentful that I will be working harder for a worse quality of life, while DH's poor choices will have little effect on him. I have in the past considered leaving and now wonder whether IABU?

DH will miss out because he didn't put away money in a pension - was he in a position to put money away?! You say your lifestyle is not lavish and you are still renting - it sounds like he just didn't have any money to put away! And if you have never discussed pensions and retirement with him how on earth do you know whether there was any money to save anyway?

@CayrolBaaaskin

If the sexes were reversed here I suspect we would see some radically different answers

Yep. I wonder how many SAHM are reading this and thinking that they need to expect divorce papers arriving at around retirement age. I mean, it won't be fair for their dh to keep them in retirement will it because they didn't arrange their own pension?

It's not that he's not worked enough, as I said previously he's worked all his life but not made provision for retirement (while wanting to retire) That will have ramifications for me which, while trying not to sound like a petulant toddler, are not fair.

And you and your child, whether adopted or not have benefitted from his not paying into a pension plan. Your lifestyle would have been significantly reduced.

I have to say that you sound like a real treat. Whereas he's taken you as a lone parent and child on at a time when he could have been enjoying dating someone of a similar age without the associated stresses. How decent he sounds.

But eh, you worry about having to perhaps give back more than you've so far received!

People who are older who start a relationship in their 30 and 40s often overlook finances at the start of a relationship, which is one of the most important things to make a relationship last long term, I have a plan to retire at 55,if I meet someone who can not because they haven't saved enough or got a plan in place then there is going to be alot of resentment there when I give up work and they have to carry on working for another 10-15 years full time and the relationship is likely to break down because of it, Ideally you need to both retire at the same time and enjoy life together, don't see why someone else should be paying for a partner they have met later on in life who hasn't bothered to save and will likely have to stay in full time employment to subsidize their lifestyle, no thankyou!

The beyond obvious difference here between a SAHM and this guy is that the SAHM would have done the raising work of the child whereas step fathers almost never do. Step mothers are expected to. If it was the exact same circumstance, my answer would be the same. "Why are you still with this person?"

Yep. I wonder how many SAHM are reading this and thinking that they need to expect divorce papers arriving at around retirement age

Actually these boards are full of SAHMs shafted as soon as the youngest is 18 or close enough to it. Out with the old and in with the new.

The legal position these days is "get a job, maximise your income and support yourself". Even if W is 50 and hasn't worked for 20 years at H's behest.

We rent our house so downsizing and releasing equity not a possibility
We have been together 14 years. I was extremely naive in the beginning regarding finances and have only really got my act together over the past 3-4 years

Well only getting your financial act together in your 40s is your own fault, as is getting together with someone who’s hopeless at ‘life admin’ and has no property or assets by his late 50s. Now you plan for the future based on the situation you are in having made those decisions.

If your DH has worked all his life, he's possibly worked for over 50 years. I think he's done his bit, don't you OP? The fact that he doesn't have a private pension, and you've only just realised this, speaks volumes about your relationship.
However, when you met neither of you had your own home, he chose to adopt your son and presumeably has spent his own income on your son over the years when he didn't have to. You were in your 30s when you met, so not a naive girl by any means. If you'd both planned it better, you may have been able to buy your home by now and be mortgage free, that's a joint issue, not just his.
My DF and mil both retired with a state pension only, as its only relatively recent that everyone has had access to a private pension. It used to be seen as something for professional people to have. They both managed to maintain a reasonable lifestyle as they both got pension credits, rent reductions etc.
The real issue is that you're of different generations because of the age difference. So yes, you'll be supporting him until he dies, and he'll probably die before you reach your own retirement age. But ultimately, you'll both probably work the same number of years.

You do sound very mean and supportive I'm afraid.

Horrible thought occurs to me...

Your husband should surely be claiming his pension by now. If he is, and you are also both having to work (albeit him part-time) to maintain your lifestyle and you don't have savings, you're going to have to change your lifestyle.

If he isn't claiming his state pension, why not? Has he been paying tax and NI? A couple of PPs have been wondering if he's in the construction field. He hasn't been one of those who've worked a lot for cash and tried to avoid tax and NI, has he? The first thing to do, OP, is find out exactly what your DH's state pension situation is.

If you separated (didn't divorce) and you went off and lived independently with your son, your husband would be eligible for public housing as an older single adult and probably also eligible for pension credits and other benefits which would boost his income.

As someone else pointed out upthread, if you've both been working for years and you have no property and no savings (I don't think you've mentioned savings) then your pension fund is the only financial asset in the relationship. If your husband never initiates divorce then you might eventually end up with an intact pension pot. But he's 68 and the average age of death for men in the UK is 81.6 years, so you could expect to be on tenterhooks for the next 14 years and possibly a lot longer. The longer it goes on without him initiating divorce and staking a claim to your pension fund, the more it may cost — because you'll have more in there and less time to build it back up.

Talk to a solicitor.

@JinglingHellsBells

I don't understand this at ALL!

Why has he not been claiming his pension already?

If he is 68 @Champagneforeveryone, he would have been eligible for his state pension at either 65 or 66. We are slightly younger than him, but are both eligible at 66, which is soon for DH.

The pension dept has been in touch with him/ us quite regularly in the lead up to this with letters giving the date when the first payment will be made.

I have over the last few years looked at my state pension forecast - I've over 35 years' in work so will get the full pension and I started claiming my occupational pension at 60.

Why has he not done any of this?

Also if he hasn't started claiming his state pension the weekly figure will have increased due to him putting his claim on hold. Has he ever paid into serps or the second state pension I think it's now called but now done away with I think when the new pension came in in 2016.

Well maybe he is happy to live on state pension? Many people only have that. It wouldn't have occurred to me that someone might leave me because I don't have another one (well, hardly any).

Presumably you have also benefited over the years from the money he didn't save into a pension?

@Champagneforeveryone I’d seriously get a divorce now. His lack of care and future planning will forever haunt your relationship. Cut your losses and get out now.

Thank you once again for all your messages good and bad, they have given me a lot to think about.

I'm also grateful to the posters who have seen that this is not a callous "chuck him out now his earning potential has gone down" scenario.

I don't want to leave DH, I love him and have obviously expected a certain amount caring to fall to me as we both age (I was naive, not stupid) I'm disappointed that people think there's a devious side to me, but then you only know me and my situation from what I've written here.

I also acknowledge that not finding out the situation earlier is down to me, not a mistake I would make again.

I am bowing out of this thread for now, to consider where we go from here. Once again many thanks for all your help.

OP is he self employed or employed. I can't tell from your post as you say he has been self employed most of his life but then you talk about his employer

@damnthatanxiety you can be self employed with an employer

OP said husband was self employed; he is probably contracted to an employer at the moment.

My husband carried on working until seventy (when he died), and received his government retirement pension from 65.

Champagneforeveryone, I'm glad this thread has been helpful to you and very glad you say you love your husband. You'll find a way in all this and there is some advantage to you being so much younger than him, you have time to put a few financial arrangements in place before you retire. Your husband won't be destitute.

All the very best.

Sadly, this is all too common, several people said the same thing to me in the past ‘I will always work, don’t need a pension’. You may think that when you are 25, different when you get to 60. A builder, a computer programmer and an accountant all quoted this.

tbh he might be better off living alone and then claiming PENSION CREDIT (plus Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit). Which he wouldn't get if you remain as a couple with you working. And PC is more money than the state retirement pension with no top-ups.

The real problem here OP is that you married a much older man with no financial intelligence and so now you find you will be funding him for decades. In the past 14 years you have shared all costs equally by the sounds of things but he will retire way earlier than you will and as he has made no financial provision for his old age, the burden will fall on you. He has not financed you through any significant period of time as you have shared costs up until now. Adopting your son has not meant he has financed you in any way as he doesn't sound like he earned a whole lot during your marriage any way. This is a real problem for you. When younger people marry much older people, it usually is fine as the older one has saved for their retirement but that is not the case here. I'm sorry OP but you are in a shit position. You will likely be working for the next 15-20 years and as you will be financing your DHs retirement, you will not be able to save as much for your own old age. No suggestions just my sympathy and a warning to anyone choosing to marry a much older partner with no assets

SAHM situation is different - that's not sitting back, refusing to work and expecting to be funded through retirement. I have previously been on a thread where the female OP did not want a divorce because she's been a SAHM, the children were in their teens, and she didn't see why she should have to get a job. In that case she was told by me, and many others, to stop being lazy, stop treating her STBExH as a meal ticket for life and go and get a job.

However it sounds as if OP's relationship is not at stake, in which case this is a joint financial decision. TBF if my H didn't go back to work I wouldn't mind being the sole breadwinner as long as he was pulling his weight. By the sounds of it OP's issue was around her H's refusal to even consider the practicalities of how to address this.

@Champagneforeveryone to protect your pension, could you separate and not actually divorce? Drop your current pension contributions to minimum and put your money somewhere offshore safe instead?

It's the moaning that would get me down. OP has referred to how miserable he is about returning to work after furlough and that he may be like that if continuing to work after retirement age. If his plan is 'I'll just keep working' then ok, but he shouldn't moan then because that's his solution and he never bothered to look for a better one.

I am really intrigued by posters saying that someone who reaches state pension age cannot draw that pension is their spouse is working.

Can you link to this?
It's certainly not the case in my marriage.

I am aware that some pensions - generous final salary occupational pensions - can sometimes reduce the annual amount paid IF there is a much younger spouse (ie 20+ years), because on the death of the main pension recipient they are paid 50% of their pension. (So the pension company would be paying out much longer than if they both died at the same time at around 80.)

@Champagneforeveryone If you can access his NI number and so on, you can go to the pensions website and get a forecast for his pension. If he has no contributions or very few over this working life, his state pension may be low in which case he may get some pension credit but it depends on your household income.

I would find 'moaning' a bit much too, Buttery, but he may not moan all the time and we're all entitled to a little one occasionally. Lockdown/furlough has caused a lot of people to moan! He may actually be fine when he is properly back at his job.

My husband went down to a flexible three day week and was still doing that a month after his 70th birthday when he died. He had planned to give up work, apart from some consultancy, six months later at Christmas but it was not to be.

I won't say he moaned but when he came home he was worn out, frankly. I was inclined to moan a bit because I felt he should pack up work altogether for the sake of his health and because we wanted to do a few things, however three days a week is not as bad as full time. Sorry to go off the point somewhat, I've no intention of making the thread about 'me' but there is some comparison regarding age and retirement.

My four weekly state pension is £729.12, the op's husband will get about the same. That's £182.28 per week, plus he will receive a heating allowance in December. It's not enough to live on if alone but if he was on his own he could claim various allowances. While he lives with his wife can do quite a lot with it, making a decent contribution to the household, buying his own bits and pieces.

if he has been working all his life even as self employed he will have been paying class 2 and 4 stamps at his age you need about 35 years to get full state pension as OP indicates he has always worked he will be getting pull pension but nothing else as no savings etc, OP is unlikely to have accured enough years to get full state pension yet.

What is true that OP's DH can't claim any other benfits like pension credit as her income will be taken into account.

OP always knew their income would go down when he retired as pension is always considerably lower than income but she didn't think it would drop as much it appears it is going to, there is no reduction in state pension if you carry on working so even 10 hours a week a NMW would increase take home income but that might only be realistic for another few years no one really wants to be working into their 70's