To think that children wouldn’t actually prefer happy parents living separately

[talesfrommyancestors]

I actually would like to be proved wrong here so it’s not a provocative title, but I do think it’s something of a myth that children would like their parents to divorce and to live apart.

My own experience is that when this happens parents move on to new relationships quite quickly and this is confusing and difficult for children. Then obviously there’s financial considerations and practicalities (living in two homes.)

I’m obviously not talking about relationships that must end because of abuse but the sort of gone stale relationships where parents are urged to split because the children will want it.

I'm struck by your interpretation of passion and physical affection, OP.

In your earlier posts, you suggested that hand-holding was fine for teenagers but not appropriate for couples in their forties. You then immediately conflated passion with sexual intimacy - which is a very narrow view. I understand if you don't like being touched, but you seem to be suggesting that people who do want affection in their relationship are somehow being unrealistic or immature.

I'm also wondering, like another poster who asked you this, whether your advice to stay together for the children applies even after they have grown up. At what point does it become acceptable for someone to pursue their own interests? When the children leave school? Graduate University? Leave home? Find their own long-term partners?

FYI I had a friend in my late teens and early 20s, whose parents divorced the moment she left home for University. She completely fell apart, as it became apparent that the last few years at home had been a lie, predicated on staying together for her sake. Consequently she was angry because the happy memories she had of the later years of family time were tainted, as she viewed them through the lens of knowing that her parents were simply waiting for her to grow up so that they could go their separate ways. And she was also guilty, because she felt responsible for her parents staying together when they were happier apart. She was quite honest that she would have preferred that they separated when they'd originally wanted to, rather than waiting for her to leave home first.

Why would you stay together for your kids , if together just means living like brother and sister . You are not doing anyone a favour by playing happy family when in fact no ones happy and the kids get shown a bizar idea of what 'love' is supposed to to look like .

Playing house is not a real marriage and is merely keeping up a facade .staying together for the kids in that situation is just ..... pointless

@TinySleepThief

Why does it have to be a lie tho?

I cant speak from my own experience but from what friends have said its looking back when they have the knowledge that events of their childhood seem tainted. They feel like most of their childhood is a lie because their parents were pretending about something so huge (bring happily married) that these events were basically not real as they cannot determine whether or not their parents were acting. You may feel it wont affect your children but from my friends experiences it will devastating.

I think though, when something (or someone) comes between a couple, history gets rewritten and someone says they were never happy at all in the marriage. It's a classic line and not usually true. Obviously, sometimes it is and the couple actually were never happy, but sometimes it's just the way someone justifies their split to themselves and others. Very immature tbh and it's so much better when people are honest about it and say, yes we were happy and then I met Sandra at the office we weren't.

Slightly tongue in cheek with the Sandra comment btw! I know not all marriages end with adultery.

Honestly OP reading all of your posts makes me believe that this thread is actually part of an ongoing (subconscious?) effort effort to continue to normalise your rather unusual attitude towards physical affection in relationships.

If there is any myth to bust here it's that there are any more than a very tiny percentage of couples which fall into your frankly strange 'friendly and perfectly nice and get on ok and don't really need physical affection but don't get on very well so might decide to separate because they think it's better for the kids but it wouldn't really be at all and they should stay together' category.

I mean really?!

I want to show my kids a loving family and if that’s not happening no matter how amicable it is then I wouldn’t want to stay, it won’t get easier for them the older they get.

"5:47Yeahnahmum

Why would you stay together for your kids , if together just means living like brother and sister . You are not doing anyone a favour by playing happy family when in fact no ones happy and the kids get shown a bizar idea of what 'love' is supposed to to look like .

Playing house is not a real marriage and is merely keeping up a facade .staying together for the kids in that situation is just ..... pointless"

If I was in that sort of marriage, the answer to that would be because my kids are the most important think in the world, much more important than my happiness. I would gladly stay in an ok relationship to ensure they didnt have to go through what I see most kids from separated families go through.

And if they came to you in later life and said that they were miserable, but felt obliged to stay in the relationship for the sake of their children because that's what you taught them, what would you say?

friends have said its looking back when they have the knowledge that events of their childhood seem tainted. They feel like most of their childhood is a lie because their parents were pretending about something so huge (bring happily married) that these events were basically not real as they cannot determine whether or not their parents were acting.

That’s so sad for them. I do find it strange they’d automatically assume it was all a lie tho. I’d always assume that parents enjoyed doing things with their kids like holidays, Christmas etc, the fact they weren’t in love with the other parent doesn’t change the happiness they feel when doing things with their children. Were the parents really acting with each other too? Were they pretending to be in love or just getting on with their lives and rubbing along well? Do our parents owe us a romantically happy marriage or they shouldn’t be together? Isn’t their relationship their choice as long as it isn’t abusive? Also when the parents split up why would they say they’d been miserable for years? Why not just say they’ve only recently fallen out of love etc? Why tell them that?

Personally I think the balance we have is best for the kids at the moment. We are both a bit lonely and it can feel bleak sometimes without a romantic connection. But it would be the same even if we lived apart as I’ve no intention on embarking on a new relationship any time soon. It’s not something the kids would understand at their young ages.

My dad and his first wife divorced when my half sister was 1, so that was a good age to do it as she never knew any difference. I think between 3 and 13 are hard ages for your parents to split up as long as there isn’t abuse and they are getting along fine.

My parents had a ‘passionate’ relationship with lots of fights and drunken screaming arguments. They stayed together for themselves. I’d have loved them to divorce when I was 12ish. Before that I wanted them to stay together even if it meant the rows. But I accepted their relationship was between them and not really any of my business- within reason. I just left home as soon as I could and let them get on with it.

I have a DSD. There is no question that the split has affected her. She gets very sad about missing her mum with us and vice versa. She loves me and her stepdad and her half brothers and sisters and she has happy lives in both places. We have 50/50 custody and get on well with her mum. It’s as happy am arrangement as she could have but splitting her entire life in half- living 2 separate lives and being separated from one parent at all times is not in any way ideal for a child and it does cause her a great deal of upset.

I do often think that if the spark went out of DH and I’s relationship and we were just friends that I would be happy to stay that way while our children grow up (obviously only if there were no arguments and we still had genuine affection for each other) as l will always always put my children before myself.

My parents' marriage was very very unhappy and I was caught between them and used in their arguments and resentments for years when I was a child. It was a miserable time and I can remember longing for them to split up so it would stop. Obviously I don't and can't know how I would have felt later about new relationships etc, but based on my experience I'd have to say YABU.

I think very few children would actually say “yes I want my parents to split up”, a few might but many would say they wanted their parents to stay together even if it wasn’t actually the best thing for everyone involved. Even children children removed from abusive homes mostly say they want to stay with their parents because it’s what they know and the unknown is scary and despite everything there might be love for their parent.

I think the problem is that you cannot separate children’s needs and parents needs. They’re both intertwined and in families everyone’s health and well-being has some impact on the rest of the family. I know that if I tried to live with someone I no longer wanted to be with I would be unhappy and that would inevitably impact on my children.

I guess if a couple felt they could stay together despite wanting to divorce without feeling frustrated, unfulfilled, angry or sad etc then they could stay together “for the kids”. Reality is that few relationships are able to float along like that without argument or an atmosphere of unhappiness.

"16:01Tappering

And if they came to you in later life and said that they were miserable, but felt obliged to stay in the relationship for the sake of their children because that's what you taught them, what would you say?"

Well it depends really. If it's a fairly happy union like described I cant see why they would be miserable. Relationships evolve over time, sometimes you are less close than other times and overall a happy team so to speak. If I was fairly happy, I'd be happy to stay in order to stop kids facing separation from either parent, ferrying between houses, parents getting new relationships and all that involved. I think sometimes we have to put children first.

I don't think it is so much the split if it is amicably agreed. It is the blending of families and new parenting roles in their life that comes after the split, even in fairytales step parents only existed when the parent was dead. I think it is all the labels step brother, step sister, step parent, if they break up it turns out actually they weren't your real family etc.

Are there lots of people who split just because the passion has gone or they are a bit unhappy though? All the people I know well who have kids and have split up or divorced have done it due to cheating, abuse (either DV or EA) or alcoholism. I don't think it's something anyone takes lightly and I think there are many more couples staying together for the sake of the children (often in situations where a split would be better for the children) than those divorcing for minor reasons.

Also, you may not always get the full story of what went on in the marriage that lead to the split so I imagine someone might say a "oh, we just weren't suited" might actually mean "he was an emotionally abusive, gaslighting prick and I finally got rid of him when I realised the kids had picked up on it". I haven't told the full story of my split with ex to DS as he has a good relationship with his Dad and I don't think he needs to know the sordid details.

Do you feel your DM left a relationship with your DH for trivial reasons and then embarked on a new relationship and this left you feeling unhappy?
Because your posts are very geared towards women leaving because they feel their relationship is dull and statistics don't support that view. In fact statistics say that women are more reluctant to end relationships than men, and that despite others possibly viewing women's reasons as trivial that is because they are more likely to obscure the serious reasons behind their decision to end their marriage.

@Alloverthegrapevine

I'm afraid I agree OP. Most children couldn't care less whether their parents are happy. They won't even notice.

Of course if there's violence or a lot of shouting, that's difference but parents who carry on and manage to be decent to each other, for the sake of the children but who feel unfulfilled in their relationship or that they could be happier elsewhere, the children would choose for them to stay together every time.

I strongly disagree. Children pick up on the unspoken unhappiness/tension.

Being 'decent' to each other is hardly an aspirational relationship goal to be modelled to children, either!

My relationship was tense I used to get so frustrated I would regularly cry. I moved out when mine were 8 and 10 and have them 4 nights a week. They stay with their dad 3 nights. I asked them just now ans they said they would rather we were living together despite the tension and arguments because they could see either of us whenever they wanted.

I agree op, in most circumstances (excluding abuse of all kinds and constant shouting and arguing which I would argue is abuse) most kids would prefer for their parents to be together. Most people would not choose to live part of the week in one place and part in another and like having their own space, things etc. Some kids cope better with it than other and adding other people (blended families) into the mix can also be difficult.

I was much happier when parents divorced. I wS 14. There wasn’t any abuse involved just low level dislike of each other and going through the motions. I was so relieved and the atmosphere in my house much less strained.

I used to think like you, but I don't anymore. From discussing frankly with my own children I've come to realise how much damage has been done in the name of "staying together for the children". I feel it must have been originally intended for keeping women in their place and putting up with anything.

I do however think that moving on to new partners is generally shit for the children.

Ie their main consideration at this age isnt their parents happiness I dont think they would even understand as unhappiness is what they are used to. Do I regret moving out? No. And I think upon reflection when they are older and have more of an understanding they will see it as the best thing but for now they dont

@russelhobbs

I used to think like you, but I don't anymore. From discussing frankly with my own children I've come to realise how much damage has been done in the name of "staying together for the children". I feel it must have been originally intended for keeping women in their place and putting up with anything.

I do however think that moving on to new partners is generally shit for the children.

Well said!!

@Orchidsindoors I'm interested in where that bar is though.

For example there is a thread in Relationships currently, where the OP is married to an otherwise nice guy who gives her very little emotional support, and where the relationship has been sexless (not her choice) for many years. Is that 'bad enough' to meet the threshold for wanting to leave?

My definition of a happy relationship doesn't mean shagging like rabbits five times a day. It requires mutual respect, shared interests or goals, humour, consideration and kindness. Passion waxes and wanes over long relationships - I understand that. But successful relationships are about compatibility - and if one party declares themselves 'done' and the other isn't on board with this, is it fair to expect the unhappy partner to put up and shut up with a life of celibacy indefinitely? Are they ever allowed to leave the relationship? If both parties agree to something and it works for them, then great. But what about where one person's needs aren't being met - not just sexual needs, but affection, kindness, interest, emotional connections?

I'm not sure children would like to learn they were the reason their parents felt stuck together and sacrificed any chance of happiness so that they had mum and dad under the same roof.

I think the problem is you using the word happy. Would children be happy their parents have split? Except in cases of abuse or when the parents are screaming at each other day and night, no, they probably aren't happy.

But they will cope.

Relationships end. It's sad, but it happens. You don't have to be a martyr and stick it out till the bitter end, accepting a life without love, fun and happiness but you do need to ensure you handle the split well. The worst thing for kids is not parents splitting. It's parents splitting then being foul to each other and letting the kids down, slagging off the other parent, etc etc.

You're conflating two issues. They could split up and still not rush into new relationships.