Circumcision Conversation

[curiousierandcouriser]

Don’t really have anyone to talk about this IRL so posting to get other perspectives. I’m not the most articulate in debates so sometimes have trouble getting my points across.

Anyway, in a nutshell we have a DS (school age) and are again discussing circumcision. My OH is from a culture that promotes this while I am hesitant to expose DS to the unnecessary risk and pain as I don’t see any clear benefit. My OH (quite rightly) has said that the longer we wait, the worse the recovery is and is pushing for it.

Does anyone have any resources / facts / recommended sites that we can use to help this discussion? We both love and want what’s best for our son, just have differing ideas on this topic.

@Sootikinstew

Those Canadians are a strange bunch aren't they! 😉
P.s. great user name!!

Its sick. Thats all that needs to be said.

I’m of a religion where boys are circumcised as babies. Interesting I’ve had many many discussions with male friends who were also circumcised as babies. Without exception they have no issues with it. It doesn’t stop them having salisfying sex lives, they don’t feel even slightly mutilated and the thought of not doing the same with their sons doesnt occur to them (all have teenage children). This includes those who haven’t remained within the religion and no longer practice.

Now that doesn’t mean that others feel differently or that it isn’t a questionable practice but in the main those men who were circumcised as babies don’t feel that it has had a negative effect on them.

Of course we can argue it’s barbaric and they don’t know any different but of those who have had it done and as adults are talking about it and don’t feel what was done to their bodies was wrong, and it’s for them to say.

But his argument is cultural.

Male circumcision is not as horrific as FGM (in terms of the consequences after) but that is like saying it's ok to purposley break your childs finger because someone else has purposley broken their childs back! Just because one is worse doesn't make either right! Unless there is a medical reason, no child should be undergoing any unnecesary operations. All operations carry risk, that your child cannot consent to, there is no benefit what so ever to your son.

There have been cases of children being hurt and ending up in hospital after circumcision going wrong. Why risk it?
It can cause problems later on with their sex life as well.
The cleaning issue is daft, just teach him to wash properly. You wouldn't remove his teeth so they can't go bad, you teach him to brush them it's exactly the same. Presumably circumcised penis are washed anyway?
Things need a better reason than it's always been done that way. That applies to everything in life and parenting. My mum used to smack me (very occasionally) she'd be horrified if I did that to my children because now she sees that there are better ways.
Don't give in.

I feel like this about ear piercing as well. That’s pure vanity. Imagine doing that to a baby.

@Braveheart101

I feel like this about ear piercing as well. That’s pure vanity. Imagine doing that to a baby.

Me too.

Things need a better reason than it's always been done that way.

OP, the above is all the argument you should need. Just doing something because it's always been done that way is a bollocks reason for doing something. By that argument, women still wouldn't have the vote, slavery would still be legal and rape within marriage would still be just peachy. It isn't up to you to argue against circumcision - it should be up to your DH to come up with a better reason than. 'we've always done it that way'.

I could get into TMI territory but I'm sure a stunted sex life isn't of much concern to parents considering this shit.

Just don't cut your kid. Lobbing bits off your kid is wrong. Nothing else even needs to be said as back up, or given as evidence.

@coronabeer23 - but you've only spoke to a small group of men, who haven't had problems. Other men, including st least one on this thread, who have.
Besides which the cultural/religious factor is literally people being sheep, following what other people say - do this to your child because it's the right thing to do for religion ... actually no, it's NOT ok to maim or mutilate a baby or a child, it's not ok in any way shape or form, it's insane that because a bloody book tells you to do it, you do it?! What if the book says 'cut their ears off so they don't have to clean behind them' or 'chop their little fingers off as they don't need them' .... or 'cut part of their genitalia off because of cleanliness' ... oh wait 🤔

DS was circumcised when he was 7 for medical reasons. It was brutal and I would never choose to do that to anyone unless medically needed.
If it’s important culturally your DD can make his own choice when he is old enough.

Meant DS not DD!

There's a lot of BS on this thread.

I was dropped on my head as a baby. Fine now. Does that mean it's fine to drop babies on their heads?

Whether some men feel fine about it now is irrelevant because some absolutely are not. The babies who died as a result of surgical complications aren't around to tell us they're not ok.

He wants it done and you don't. Only one of the approaches is addressable when your son is old enough to make his own decisions. The other one isn't.

Some very ignorant comments on this thread about FGM.

FGM is not just clitoridectomy - there are many forms, some substantially less invasive than male circumcision. They are rightly all considered wrong.

I previously worked with someone who was a victim of type 4 FGM (which is very broad). In her case she was massively traumatised by what was done to her despite the fact that it had no impact on sensation etc, as any of us would be. Type 4 includes piercing, pricking, scratching, scarring, and any other type of mutilation not covered by the three other types.

Type 1a FGM is the removal of the clitoral hood only - if you can’t see the similarity between that and male circumcision I don’t know what to say to that.

www.who.int/sexual-and-reproductive-health/types-of-female-genital-mutilation (Trigger warning obviously)

Type 1a FGM is the removal of the clitoral hood only - if you can’t see the similarity between that and male circumcision I don’t know what to say to that.

It can be argued that it's physically similar, but male circumcision is not routinely done to control mens sex lives or to keep them chaste. The intent and purpose behind the two are completely different. I say that as someone who is against male circumcision, and I'd like it to be agreed by all religious groups that it's only done on males above a certain age with full understanding.

No, the recovery won't be worse the longer you wait. Wait till he's a grown-up and he can chose then. If he decides to have it done, he can rationalise his decision and that will make that part of recovery a non issue.

@curiousierandcouriser

I think that possible loss of sexual sensation or side effects and consent to a medical procedure that will undoubtedly be unpleasant and uncomfortable for your son for couple of days are probably the best non emotive arguments. If your son suffered a side effect and lost sensation in his penis, how would you both explain the decision to him later - you did it to make him fit in seems a bit flimsy as a reason. Whereas if he feels like he would prefer to look more similar to men of his culture growing up, that is fine for him if he understands the risks. (I don't know if there is also a case for waiting until adult on the basis that when the penis is fully grown the operation is less likely to be problematic, on the basis that growth at puberty etc is no longer an issue - you could ask a non partisan doctor about this aspect of it).

I mean, ultimately, it is obviously cultural and emotional but as it isn't medically advised in this specific case it is more of a cosmetic surgery procedure really isn't it?. There really aren't many good objective reasons for performing cosmetic surgery on a child, particularly an intimate area.