Circumcision Conversation

[curiousierandcouriser]

Don’t really have anyone to talk about this IRL so posting to get other perspectives. I’m not the most articulate in debates so sometimes have trouble getting my points across.

Anyway, in a nutshell we have a DS (school age) and are again discussing circumcision. My OH is from a culture that promotes this while I am hesitant to expose DS to the unnecessary risk and pain as I don’t see any clear benefit. My OH (quite rightly) has said that the longer we wait, the worse the recovery is and is pushing for it.

Does anyone have any resources / facts / recommended sites that we can use to help this discussion? We both love and want what’s best for our son, just have differing ideas on this topic.

It really annoys me that if this conversation were about girls it would be (rightly so) considered Genital mutilation. But because it's a boy it's ok....

Please Let your son make his own mind up if he wants to remove a vital part of his anatomy when he is an adult

You're not going to win the argument with facts if he's coming back to feelings and beliefs.

He has 'cultural reasons' to want it. You have cultural reasons to want the opposite. Therefore the only appropriate way forward is to let your son decide when he is of an age to consent.

@curiousierandcouriser what @QueenofmyPrinces said - why not let the son decide when he is of age?

My question would be - what is your husband afraid of? That the kid will be one day able to think for himself and see through the religious nonsense of cutting a functional organ off for middle-ages superstitions?

As for medical advice, you can find sources for both pro and against, depends where you look. This scares me (I would hate my son to blame me for mutilating him when he had no say in it and fo no medical reason): "Psychological consequences included emotional distress, manifesting as intrusive thoughts about one’s circumcision, included feelings of mutilation (60%), low self-esteem/inferiority to intact men (50%), genital dysmorphia (55%), rage (52%), resentment/depression (59%), violation (46%), or parental betrayal (30%)" (link to personal stories from men about circumcision: www.circinfo.org/Personal_stories.html )

Who was your DH going to ask to perform this unnecessary surgery? The NHS does not offer religious circumcision- it’s only available for genuine medical indications.
No ethical surgeon would perform a needless op with a risk of complications and no benefits.
This should be a no brainer - just say no!

As Palavah said but also why does his 'cultural reasons' trump yours?

Let your son make the decision by himself when he's old enough. On the basis that his foreskin hasn't given him any trouble so far, it's extremely unlikely to between now and being an adult and on the offchance that it did, that's the time to have it done. The surgery isn't without risks and the foreskin does actually have a function in protecting the glans.

@curiousierandcouriser

Just wanted to re-iterate again that I am against this and view it as mutilation. Yes I can google and have argued against it at birth, hence why it didn't happen. Its come up again so I was asking if anyone had good ideas to "beat" the culture argument.

Also, to answer an earlier poster, yes I realize how this is viewed and am prepared for some flaming (this is AIBU).

Yes. On repeat. You are not cutting and mutilating my son. Over and Over again. I do not consent, I do not agree.

I just said "No I don't agree with it. It's male gential mutilation - it's not happening. " Over and over.

In your case -I'm sorry but if your OH is trying to coerce you into a mutilation of your child. You need to end it. But before you do I would visit your GP and explain that your OH is trying to coerce you into a non medical procedure that you disagree with -I'd tell your GP that your OH is trying to force your consent and that you want to leave but are woried about your DS.

I thinks it's awful this is still legal without medical need. All those poor little boys being mutilated becuase of 'culture and religion'. I agree with a pp, it is evil.

Unless there's a medical reason it's genital mutilation

DH is from a culture where boys are circumcised, both he and BIL got it done around age 8 (no idea why it wasn't done as babies). We have 2 DSs now and we both agree there is no way anyone is chopping bits off them unless medically necessary (or if they decide to as adults).

Watch American Circumcision on Netflix, it has a lot of information and different points of view

Genital mutilation of boys should be illegal. It usually causes less pain than for girls, but it is still unnecessary on a child who is unable to refuse. Let him decide at 18 whether he wants it done.

“Culture is not a justification for child abuse”.

I agree with posts that children should not be circumcised unless a medical need. What was interesting was the clinic that DH was circumcised at commented it was increasingly popular for adult men wanting circumcision, not for medical reasons. You even get to chose the style, ie tight or loose etc.

For me...it is a decision as an adult

Most US men are circumcised- nothing to do with culture/ religion.

But to a school age child - Never - won’t he get a say in it?

@Jonoula

Most US men are circumcised- nothing to do with culture/ religion.

But to a school age child - Never - won’t he get a say in it?

Surely that’s part of the American culture?

If your son is school age, it's too late. This needs to be done as young as possible if required for culture reasons, a few weeks old. Very unpleasant for a school aged child....too late sorry would be my response.

Culture is a point you could mention to your DH OP. Is your DS growing up surrounded by your or your DH's culture?

@Jonoula

Most US men are circumcised- nothing to do with culture/ religion.

But to a school age child - Never - won’t he get a say in it?

Not any more. It used to be an anti-masturbation thing dressed up as 'cleaner' but it's fallen out of favour as parents don't want to lop off parts of their perfect child's body without a medical reason.

@Babdoc
*
Who was your DH going to ask to perform this unnecessary surgery? The NHS does not offer religious circumcision- it’s only available for genuine medical indications.
No ethical surgeon would perform a needless op with a risk of complications and no benefits.
This should be a no brainer - just say no!*

There are loads of clinics that offer it and specialise in it. Mainly for Muslim and Jewish children and adults where it is the norm (Some adult males that convert in marriage are expected to undergo the procedure). Hence why DH went to one as they are so experienced doing the procedure as opposed to a Dr that does it Infrequently

I really can’t see how parents could put their babies through this unless medically necessary

I mean, I cried when my dc had to have the PKP test, let alone hearing them scream because someone chopped off part of their penis so it’s kosher

I think it's too late. If he wants it done he can choose to. The decline in circumcision in the UK started in 1948, the newly founded NHS didn't consider infant circumcision a necessary procedure and therefore wouldn't cover it.

Circumcision can help protect men from STIs and AIDS. Women who are long term partners of uncircumcised men have lower rates of cervical cancer. As for lessening sensation, most men let their dick lead them around as is. Circumcision was nearly universal five decades ago. Now, many health insurers are shortsighted, and may not pay for it.

Circumcision was nearly universal five decades ago

So were racism and sexism.

@Warsawa31

It really annoys me that if this conversation were about girls it would be (rightly so) considered Genital mutilation. But because it's a boy it's ok....

Please Let your son make his own mind up if he wants to remove a vital part of his anatomy when he is an adult

That is an absolute lie. Don’t try and use this topic as a gotcha moment. As @dancingindespair says:

They are not exactly the same at all.
FGM makes it very painful or even deadly to have sex or give birth. It massively increases the risk of infection. It takes away sexual pleasure and has no benefit whatsoever. It's done to control women and girls

Male circ - whatever you think of it being done as a religious rite- poses very little risk if done in a medical setting, has some slight benefits in some cases, and generally there are no ongoing effects into adulthood

^^my point being that most of the posts ARE saying it’s mutilation and it should be illegal, but it’s not the same as FGM and shouldn’t be compared.