To ask if you are OK with your daughter's subs being spent on this?

[KatieAlcock]

I've just come to update you on my case against Girlguiding, where they expelled me for raising safeguarding concerns and for asking why we had to believe in inner gender identity to be a leader.
Girlguiding have spent AT LEAST £35,000 and probably more like £100,000 of the subs you pay for your daughter to go to Rainbows, Brownies or Guides, on defending a case against me, a committed leader who wants to make sure girls are safe and leaders have freedom of expression.

Full text of my update in the next post so as not to bore you to death!

camps aren't run on the basis that every adult should be supervised by another adult at all times.
Whenever you are alone with the girls there should be 2 adults present, this is basic safeguarding.

Trans girls are normally ashamed and the last people to be sharing bodies.

Sure. Lila Perry utterly abhorred getting her erect cock out in the girls showers at her school. Oh no wait, she didn't. And it was the girls, at school, who had to be the ones who objected because their teachers thought like you.

I still can't believe that some posters GENUINELY believe that trans women pose no threat, solely because if the word trans.... :/

By their logic the worst male paedophile rapist in the world would be perfectly safe around children just by being called 'Ms Smith' rather than 'Mr Smith'... and to say otherwise is being transphobic...

@Winesalot

Doesn’t seem to be an issue round the rest of the world.

And yet talking to leaders from other parts of the world, it is. They know to not say anything publicly. They fully recognise the issues and the problems.

And indeed, if they speak up, they're forcibly removed from the organisation...!

Trans girls are normally ashamed and the last people to be sharing bodies.

Um, i'm not advocating it because NSFW, but anyone googling #TransGirls will show that one up.

Only if you're too ignorant to understand that males present a statistically much higher threat.

I think we’ll find Lemons not going to believe any study or stat that you mention and never seems to provide anything to counter.

Really, lemons, you really believe that any check is going to magically discover a well hidden history of abuse. As I said yesterday, have you not read the papers even in the last week. Hundreds of sex offenders have ‘disappeared’. It takes just a google search. Oh and please google Julie Marshall this time too.

To ‘disappear’ is as easy as a, I don’t know, a name change perhaps.

Just going to post this again for the hard of hearing at the back...

Brownies/Guides was one of the only places I felt 100% safe as a child/teen. My brother raped me. It started with sexual abuse and ended with pregnancy. I never felt 100% safe at dance classes as we had a couple of boys there. They also ran judo lessons in the same building. Dads/brothers were there. All my friends had brothers and/or dads at home. Even though none of these men ever touched me I was very aware that they could.

GG was my 100%safe space. No boys. No men. No penises. Just girls and women. A safe haven for a traumatised child.

I wonder how many other girls like me needed/need that space. I bet theres more of us who would be pushed out of GG by the presence of Trans-girls than there are trans-girls who shouldn't be allowed to join in the first place. Why should their rights and feelings come above ours?
Oh and my brother would pass a CRB check because I was persuaded not to report him by my mother.

Someone asked upthread about jamborees etc. In my experience, GG utilise quite a lot of Scout events (and are made welcome). They are frequently held - I recall a girl going to an absolutely huge international event in America last year, there was supposed to be a European one this year. In DD's unit they have selection weekends every year for something called WOO which is a yearly camp abroad, regions often run international trips where girls will be selected from lots of different units. On these camps you're unlikely to be with your usual leader although there may be other girls from your unit. So, depending on where you are and how active your region is with trips there are lots of opportunities.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

Just going to post this again for the hard of hearing at the back...

Brownies/Guides was one of the only places I felt 100% safe as a child/teen. My brother raped me. It started with sexual abuse and ended with pregnancy. I never felt 100% safe at dance classes as we had a couple of boys there. They also ran judo lessons in the same building. Dads/brothers were there. All my friends had brothers and/or dads at home. Even though none of these men ever touched me I was very aware that they could.

GG was my 100%safe space. No boys. No men. No penises. Just girls and women. A safe haven for a traumatised child.

I wonder how many other girls like me needed/need that space. I bet theres more of us who would be pushed out of GG by the presence of Trans-girls than there are trans-girls who shouldn't be allowed to join in the first place. Why should their rights and feelings come above ours?
Oh and my brother would pass a CRB check because I was persuaded not to report him by my mother.

Well, @TheFormerPorpentinaScamander, don't you understand? All he has to do is call himself Jennifer, and she's now no threat at all 👍

@00100001 doh! Silly me. Of course. I forgot that's how it works!

I find the 86% approval survey hard to believe.
It certainly hasn't been widely asked.
GG is a very inclusive organisation and the girls also (or at least the ones I know) are mostly very sweet, kind girls. So, if you surveyed maybe a small number and posed a gentle question about including transgirls, they may well say yes. But if you take away the magic trans word and ask if they would be happy sharing a tent, etc, with a male bodied child I very much doubt they would agree with that..

you surveyed maybe a small number and posed a gentle question about including transgirls, they may well say yes. it is totally dependent on the question wording. And how it is publicized is dependent on the media chosen. As we have seen from the Yougov survey. Some agencies will cherry pick the results.

I see that we women have had their daily shame ‘whipping’ for discussing the very real implications for accepting flawed safeguarding processes in the light of reality and applying historical lessons.

The pattern is very obvious.

The question was something like "do you believe in equality for LGBT people" - it certainly wasn't "are you OK with you/your daughter sharing sleeping accommodation with a male bodied person" nor even "do you think people who are male but identify as women or girls should be members of Girlguiding".

Even asking "should trans people be able to be in Guiding" is impossible to answer if you think that all female people, regardless of how they identify, should be in Guiding, but not male people.

Katie
I can't imagine a single girl in DD's unit would say no to that.

No to what?

do you believe in equality for LGBT people

Then I am surprised at only 86%. If someone asked me that question as a stand alone question the answer is yes. Of course. If the next question was ‘should trans rights have priority over women’s rights’ or ‘would you be happy for your daughter to share a tent with a person the opposite sex’ (and no... not one person on this earth can change sex) then the answer is no.

My uni quals in market research excludes me from answering though. Something to do with knowing how biases work or something. Or maybe that has changed in the decade since I took the qualification. Ethics seem to have changed in other areas.

The question was something like "do you believe in equality for LGBT people"

This question. They would agree with this.

Remember this survey often includes younger girls/those with disabilities who may genuinely may not understand the question (no time to delve right now, but the Girls' Attitudes Survey is age 7-21).

@Beamur

The question was something like "do you believe in equality for LGBT people"

This question. They would agree with this.

But that isn't the same question as asking a 13yo in confidence "would you share a bedroom, shower and toilet with a male?"

Hence the way lemon was using it was by drawing an incorrect assumption. But I think they probably know what the question was and it’s limits and ignored it because it didn’t match their aim to drop the daily shame ‘whipping’.

No. It isn't.
The first question is abstract.
Your question is a scenario.
I have put precisely that question to my guinea pig guide (my DD) got a definite 'yes' to the first and a definite'no' to the second.
Plus you shouldn't be asking 13 year olds such loaded questions in confidence.

I just can't fathom why females don't think there's a need for female only spaces.

Maybe they've had such a wonderful life they've never encountered any form of sexism or abuse, not know anyone that has, so cannot fathom a world where females might be in danger???

I still haven't had any of the posters supporting males in female spaces say they regularly send their child or themselves into male designated spaces 🤷‍♀️ because honestly, if males pose NO risk, then they'd have zero issues with being in male communal changing rooms or doing their bra fitting etc.

It's almost as if they are given a choice of privacy ...yet they're sitting here fighting to take that choice away from others and themselves

This is what GG said on the question

It found that 86% of girls and young women aged 11-21 believe people should not be discriminated against because they are transgender.

So no 7 year olds were not asked the range covered guides, rangers and younger adult helpers/leaders