To ask if you are OK with your daughter's subs being spent on this?

[KatieAlcock]

I've just come to update you on my case against Girlguiding, where they expelled me for raising safeguarding concerns and for asking why we had to believe in inner gender identity to be a leader.
Girlguiding have spent AT LEAST £35,000 and probably more like £100,000 of the subs you pay for your daughter to go to Rainbows, Brownies or Guides, on defending a case against me, a committed leader who wants to make sure girls are safe and leaders have freedom of expression.

Full text of my update in the next post so as not to bore you to death!

Predatory males will be exposed on CRB checks. Any time staff are put in vulnerable positions( very few on a guiding weekly basis) there will be other members of staff present.

You refuse to engage with that and prefer instead to whip up a safeguarding crisis of which there is no such thing.

Bigotry is why you were expelled and the laws in place will continue to protect trans girls and women.

This is a money raising thread. Op needs the cash.

*The vast maj of girls are happy with them being there and the law around the world supports them being there.

Tough luck you don’t get what you want.*

Very mature response.

1. Has anyone gone and anonymously asked the girls if they would want to share with unknown male children? No? Then you have no proof.

1. Asking a girl to share with a transgirls they know and they will say yes, even if they feel no. Because as you have clearly shown here, if you say no you are branded a vbigot and nasty. What teenage girl can stand firm facing that?

1. We are the adults. We are the ones that need to view this objectively, weigh the pros and cons and them make a decision that will provide the best for all, not just the one.

1. GG is lying. They are not single sex if they will reject transgender females and accept transgender males. They are also advocating keeping secrets from parents. In no world should that be ok.

What about the pregnancy element as described below? Surely we need to protect against the possibility, however remote? Isn't this how safeguarding works?

Also, some people haven't been caught for crimes and so a CRB only has so much reach. I mean sky ran a story a few days ago about sex offenders that have gone missing in the system changing their names, it surely isn't that far in your imagination that you can see that it could be abused?

Safeguarding isn't about trans people, it's about keeping kids safe - surely you would want that?

Predatory males will be exposed on CRB checks. Any time staff are put in vulnerable positions( very few on a guiding weekly basis) there will be other members of staff present.

This is actually not true. CRB checks will only show the results for the names the male will provide. If they don't add they are a transgender male, the CRB check will not flag up checks are needed on another name and sex.

And as sanluca says below, we are the adults, children cannot always make rational choices and weigh up the risks - that's why parents are there, to make these decisions. We cannot do that if we do not know what the risks are and GG have made clear that we would not be aware.

You can push that argument for predatory women too.

I’m 100% confident my dd is safe. Pregnancy of zero threat on a weekly basis. On camp there are other girls in rooms/ tents. Being trans does not make you predatory by default.Trans girls are normally ashamed and the last people to be sharing bodies.

Trans girls are protected by law around the world in guiding groups. Where are the hoards of girls made pregnant by them?

Lemon No organisations base their safeguarding policies based on what their service users opinions about it are. Your post is disingenuous, or very naive. You are evading the point in any event.

Also many trans people are, quite rightly, not ashamed of their bodies. Why would you assume they are shameful?

Young people experiment sexually and that is also why they are kept in single sex segregation on overnight trips. Because mixed sex experiments are likely to end in one of the sexes becoming pregnant sooner or later. If you don’t recognise sex then you cannot begin to mitigate for this effectively.

You may be able to keep some things secret from parents but a pregnant teen is a very clear indication that they have not been in a girls only environment.

Young people going through transitioning do feel shameful of their bodies. Don’t deny that to make your argument.

And again where are all these pregnant teenage girls? Loving the idea of teen boys dressing up as girls once a week to get into guides and the once a year chance of sharing a room with a solitary/ unsupervised girl on camp. 😂😂😂

Tough luck you don’t get what you want.

This is the answer to challenges on safeguarding, boundaries and consent???

Lem0n, I don't think you are discussing this in good faith. Policies and procedures in relation to safeguarding are made on the worst case scenario to ensure that kids are protected. Why do we need to wait until a guide is pregnant or until something happens before we put in place sensible evidence based policies. How many girls will be collateral damage?

You are assuming trans people are ashamed but why would they be? You are assuming they have gender dysphoria which is not a pre requisite of being trans.

How the hell has the existence of a group exclusively for girls been reframed as how it can provide validation for males? Every time the rights of women and girls is discussed it is twisted to somehow be about males instead and the conversation is only allowed to come from the viewpoint of transwomen's rights, with the clear aim of removing girls from the issue altogether.

Girl guides is for girls only. The argument to allow males to access these organisations is insidious and weird, which is probably why GGHQ were trying to sneak it in with no publicity. Where did the decision come from to allow males stealth access to girls' exclusive spaces without letting parents know? GG is automatically associated with being exclusively for girls so no normal man or transwomen would think of trying to join. Surely the insistence that males should be given access to these girls raises huge warning signs, especially with the total lack of publicity about it. And males transgressing the girls' publicise boundaries comprise a self-selecting problematic group.

I'm not going to sit down and put up with being called a bigot for this. Frankly, anyone arguing that males should be allowed into GG is the bigot. It is dangerous.

Teenage Trans girls are biologically teenage boys

Does saying the word trans magically erase all the Male teenage hormones?

Most TW remain attracted to women

All the be kind in the world doesnt change that

Lem0n, are you saying that it is impossible that a trans teen and their raging hormones (remember the waiting lists and apparent blockers to get hormones) won't experiment sexually? Not a chance at all?

How the hell has the existence of a group exclusively for girls been reframed as how it can provide validation for males?

Indeed. What was is that J. K. Rowling said? witch, bitch, terf, bigot.

Same old, same old. Except now there seems to be no hesitation in saying Tough luck you don’t get what you want.

Predatory males will be exposed on CRB checks.

If they've previously been caught. A predatory male (of female) who has got away with it for years won't be identified as such in a CRB check.

The bigots are thankfully in the minority

Can people stop calling children bigots

If you are a name caller and want to call adults bigots crack on

But stop slagging off children you don’t know

@Lem0nZest

You can push that argument for predatory women too.

I’m 100% confident my dd is safe. Pregnancy of zero threat on a weekly basis. On camp there are other girls in rooms/ tents. Being trans does not make you predatory by default.Trans girls are normally ashamed and the last people to be sharing bodies.

Trans girls are protected by law around the world in guiding groups. Where are the hoards of girls made pregnant by them?

Ok, so you send your daughter into male loos and changing rooms? And she's perfectly comfortable with that? And naturally you happily enter the male shower spaces in swimming pools etc. You and she are happy for a male to do a bra fitting for her and yourself?

Oh and i know children can be racist sexist bigots etc

But you educate them out of it if you can or give them the tools to think about the logic of what they are saying and thinking

You don’t call them names...or rather some people obviously do, but shouldn’t

Again Lemon we as trustees don’t set safeguarding policy on the basis of sweeping generalisations, ideals and assumptions. Neither yours nor mine. We assume the worst, test every small risk factor, mitigating risk however unlikely, wherever possible.

As I said upthread, GG could very easily do this and make their organisation openly trans inclusive. They have chosen not to and glossed over the consequences. Judging by the astronomical cost of their legal representation I’m wondering how confident they feel in that decision.

@Lem0nZest

There is no safeguarding issue. Trans girls are more likely the ones to feel shameful and keep their bodies hidden.

These two individuals are whipping up the “safeguarding’ issue. Doesn’t seem to be an issue round the rest of the world.

There IS a safeguarding issue.

Just because you choose to ignore it, doesn't mean it isn't there...

Putting the word safeguarding in inverted commas is very revealing.

FGS. Hordes of children were abused by catholic priests - since forever? And the children were pressurised into not telling anyone. When anyone did tell a parent, it was hushed up. Why should this be any different? That's how paedophiles operate. And these camps aren't run on the basis that every adult should be supervised by another adult at all times. And stop blathering on about predatory females (aka women) - because 96% of sex crimes are carried out by males (aka men), remember? Do you really think it's sensible not to factor in that huge extra risk when making decisions about how to run an organisation that is supposed to be about benefiting young girls?
As we've heard, criminal record checks don't work when people have changed their name. And even if they did, there are lots of predatory men out there who don't have a criminal record. Why should girl guides have to be sacrificed because every possible benefit of the doubt is given to transgender males? Why, yet again, are transgender males more important that anyone else in our society? And why is it so important to certain men that they work on all girl residential trips?
At the very least, this case is giving some publicity to the issues. Because parents should be fully informed. So that they can take their girls out if they don't want to accept the risks. Seems obvious, doesn't it?

Girl guiding will become mixed sex. A whole bunch of girls will be denied access to GG and then the next target will be single sex schools.

You can push that argument for predatory women too.

Only if you're too ignorant to understand that males present a statistically much higher threat. But since you were under the impression that CRB checks would show up all predatory males until about an hour ago, it would be in your child's interest for you to understand that your awareness of proper safeguarding is sorely lacking.

You also don't seem to get that laws in other countries aren't actually applicable here. Funny, that.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue round the rest of the world.

And yet talking to leaders from other parts of the world, it is. They know to not say anything publicly. They fully recognise the issues and the problems.