To ask if you are OK with your daughter's subs being spent on this?

[KatieAlcock]

I've just come to update you on my case against Girlguiding, where they expelled me for raising safeguarding concerns and for asking why we had to believe in inner gender identity to be a leader.
Girlguiding have spent AT LEAST £35,000 and probably more like £100,000 of the subs you pay for your daughter to go to Rainbows, Brownies or Guides, on defending a case against me, a committed leader who wants to make sure girls are safe and leaders have freedom of expression.

Full text of my update in the next post so as not to bore you to death!

There literally are not trans rapists trying to creep into children's beds, tents and showers.

There are many rapists trying to creep into children's beds, tents and showers though. You are naive if you think otherwise. Just take a look at any organisation or job that works with children and you'll see that abusers will flock there. Sometimes the abuse is even at an institutional level such as the catholic church and the boy scouts of America, who used similar tactics to cover it up. Give them a loophole to exploit and they will do it (those who want to abuse children that is). I'm not sure why anyone thinks this will be any different. If GG is forgoing safeguarding protocol around this issue purely through wanting to seem inclusive, then there is a big problem and there WILL be cases of this being exploited.

Quite vivienne. I mean we must prevent girls from learning about their oppression and being encouraged to challenge it at ALL COSTS. 😂😂
Such bigotry.
Such refusal to centre males.
Such lack of interest in celebrating their own discrimination.
How very dare women want a place to encourage girls to look critically at their own oppression!
It must be STOPPED!!!!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Pesky girl guides.
Darned leaders believing in the importance of young girls and women!
Down with that sort of thing!
Lol.
Katie, thank you for continuing to raise this. I got your update yesterday and will continue to contribute as I can. For obvious reasons, the only way I can carry on as a leader (and continue to instil the absolute horrors of self-confidence and freedom in teenage girls 😂😂😂) is by not raising my head above the parapet and questioning the gg stance on ‘gender’ instead of ‘sex’ as the membership criteria. The fact that both you and Helen are raising this issue publicly is the only reason I can with all good conscience continue.
If I didn’t believe that young women needed their own space, I would still be a scouter.

I say this isn't a safeguarding issue as measures could be taken where this wouldn't happen

But Katie's point is that GG Leaders aren't allowed to take safeguarding measures to keep girls, or women, safe.
You're not allowed to call out in a risk assessment that there will be people with penises (ie boys and/or men) at a residential if those people have self declared themselves to be girls or women.

Males who are males have to have separate sleeping, toilet and washing provision. Males who self ID as females can share accommodation with females. We are not allowed to call this out as a risk, nor are we allowed to tell parents.

No safeguarding policy ever has encouraged people to routinely hide things from parents

Until now.

I really hope you win this. No safeguarding failings should ever be brushed under the carpet.

I still find it truly shocking that he one organisation I expected to centre the experience of girls however they present, and to fight against sex based stereotypes (all the things madwomen does!) Has become an organisation where I am concerned for safeguarding and has become very wishy washy. (And girly in its badges...)

Its fine not to agree. Just don't send your child to an organisation or volunteer for an organisation whose policies you don't agree with. It's just annoyed me that folk think trans people are a risk. Then the police should deal with it if they are.

Its fine not to agree. Just don't send your child to an organisation or volunteer for an organisation whose policies you don't agree with

I should imagine that if you love the organisation and believe that their recent policy change Is detrimental to both the organisation and the children that you wouldnt want to leave...you’d want to try and fix it

It's not necessarily that transgender people are a risk.

There are girls who their parents would send them to guiding believing it to be a cis-gender female only environment. This might be for cultural or religious reasons, it might be as a result of previous trauma suffered by the child, or by the child's family members. Now that has been removed from them, as an option.

On the other hand, I fully get that a child that identifies as female, or a person that identifies as a woman, might wish very much to be part of a very significant female organisation.

Sorry, I meant to say, I find it rather sad that girls and women may be edited out of such an organisation as a result.

It's just annoyed me that folk think trans people are a risk. Then the police should deal with it if they are

So you would rather allow a policy that gives predetory men a loophole to exploit, dont forget self ID is not law either and gg take any self declaration with no proof they even mean it?

Trans people present the same risk as their birth sex does. Like I have the sake statistical risk as my birth sex even though I'm harmless And they are subject to the same safe uarding restrictions as everyone else. You, me , everyone.

@Viviennemary who is going to stand up for the safeguarding of these girls if everyone who disagrees just buggers off? How many girls is acceptable collateral damage before something should be done?
Introducing male bodies into female spaces increases the risk of harm massively.

Safeguarding thrown out of the window in the name of inclusivity. The reasons women and girls have single sex provision do not miraculously disappear because some Males like sparkly hair clips.
Katie you have my full support

So are people saying a man would deliberately present as trans to get access to young girls. I wouldn't have thought that very likely. But I suppose not absolutely impossible. OP what ruling do you want here. That trans people need to declare their biological sex before being accepted as a leader or being allowed to join or not being allowed to join the guides at all. A genuine question. I can't see how this is going to be solved.

Or to put it in really easy simplistic terms if we allowed some people to have guns in schools but couldn't tell the parents who had guns how many school shootings would be acceptable before thinking guns in schools were a really bad idea?

Men have hidden in septic tanks, climbed into walls , becomes drs priests teachers etc all to gain access to their victims
So yes a man would quite possibly self ID for nefarious reasons.

Many have done so in prison to try and get transferred.

Which is why self ID is a bad Idea and not actually law despite what gg and everywhere else thinks and put into practice.

In fact David challoner was a scout leader and wore a dress as he tortured and raped his 10 year old female victim. According to stonewall that places him undertake trans umbrella too.

So yes birth sex should be disclosed and previous names disclosed because it changes everything.

Well Karen White certainly seemed to do it to access vulnerable women prisoners.
Biological sex matters. We can dress how we like, call ourselves what we like while acknowledging it is impossible to change sex.

@mummyoneboy19

So, from what I can work out you’re against trans people being leaders?

And you’re suing GirlGuiding UK because they disagreed with you?

So basically, you’re upset that trans people exist in society and want subs money for “injury to feelings”.

Personally I’m happy they’re fighting this case.

Can you not read? At no point does it say she's against trans people being leaders.

I think it should either be a single sex orgnasation or be clear to prospective parents it isnt. Currently its the secrecy that is wrong.

I personally would like it to return to single sex. I don't think all men are dangerous but we have single sex toilets, wards etc for a reason. Having just one club where girls can be away from men and boys shouldnt be too much an ask.

I'm fairly sure that Girl Guides prides itself on being a single sex organisation and is using one of the sex based exemptions to do so. If they have MTF trans people without GRC but don't allow other male people they may be legally discriminating against the other male people on the grounds of sex.

The reality is that you brought the case and they are having to defend the case and spend money to do so.

Whilst they did not deal with the recent hearing appropriately and have a costs order against them when you lose you will be liable for their costs and GG should be able to recover 2/3 to 3/4 of their costs from you. I hope you have deep pockets OP.

MN - why is yet another anti trans thread allowed on the main boards. Can it not be moved over to where all the other anti trans stuff is kept?

[quote mummyoneboy19]@StillWeRise

She’s suing for “injury to feelings” because GirlGuiding UK disagreed with her “belief” that people are unable to change sex.

Seems like she’s upset trans people exist to me.[/quote]
That's not a belief, it's a fact. You cannot change your biological sex. Just like you cannot change your race. It's not hard to understand.

Care to explain how safegurding is and trans please ?

Anti

@SeasonFinale

The reality is that you brought the case and they are having to defend the case and spend money to do so.

Whilst they did not deal with the recent hearing appropriately and have a costs order against them when you lose you will be liable for their costs and GG should be able to recover 2/3 to 3/4 of their costs from you. I hope you have deep pockets OP.

MN - why is yet another anti trans thread allowed on the main boards. Can it not be moved over to where all the other anti trans stuff is kept?

Why do you see this as anti trans? Do your believe safeguarding is important?