To ask if you are OK with your daughter's subs being spent on this?

[KatieAlcock]

I've just come to update you on my case against Girlguiding, where they expelled me for raising safeguarding concerns and for asking why we had to believe in inner gender identity to be a leader.
Girlguiding have spent AT LEAST £35,000 and probably more like £100,000 of the subs you pay for your daughter to go to Rainbows, Brownies or Guides, on defending a case against me, a committed leader who wants to make sure girls are safe and leaders have freedom of expression.

Full text of my update in the next post so as not to bore you to death!

JamieLeeCurtains I volunteered for one session of scouts to help them achieve a badge. I already had a relative who was quite well-known locally in scouting and I was asked if I would like to be a leader, but when I told them I was an atheist I was told that leaders had to hold a belief and that I couldn't become a leader. In their statement it's written as something like "upholding the scouting ethos". I actually think it's changed now.

I so want my dd to be able to join madwoman1ntheattic’s group. It sounds great..

@Witchcraftandhokum if the stated aims of GG were that it was an exclusive organisation for women and girls who believe in gender identity, if it was in the promise, and if parents were told absolutely clearly that would be one thing. We would know it had (finally, because it never was before) become an organisation for members of a single religion.
But their charter is that they are single sex. Not single belief system.

@OneEpisode

I so want my dd to be able to join madwoman1ntheattic’s group. It sounds great..

I want to join it myself. Awesome.

I want my daughters in madwomans group too!!

I opened scouts in our community as there was nothing for the boys to do. We opened beavers and cubs. Of course, the women had to do the graft and get the units set up, and then we did manage to recruit a couple of male leaders. On one occasion I was running a cub badge for a meeting (can’t remember what it was, something about the house). It was basically making a hot drink, vacuuming a rug, sewing on a badge, being able to answer a phone and take a message, and ironing your scarf. Half way through the meeting one of the male leaders arrived and walked through and jeered ‘what are you all doing that women’s stuff for?’
I’d say that some beliefs (like ‘women’s stuff’) deserve challenging.
The god thing went ages ago.

I also disagree that this is a safeguarding issue. (and I work in safeguarding)

Please tell me that's not true... so you don't see a safeguarding issue with a 13 year old female sharing a shower with a 14 year old male? Christ. 🤦‍♀️

@Witchcraftandhokum

There are a ton of charities whose views I don't agree with. I chose not to work for them or give them money. This charity has changed their values, you didn't agree with that and that's fine. But the Guide's have loads of members who are absolutely fine with this and the OP is costing them money. I don't think that's OK. I also disagree that this is a safeguarding issue. (and I work in safeguarding)

You honestly shouldn't be working in safeguarding, in my opinion.

And your hearsay story about why you weren't able to become a scout leader is really lame.

No sorry op, I'm not with you. As I've said, not a problem that you don't agree with them, making this public, fine. Wanting money from them, not OK.

I’m entirely with the girl guides on this. Not that I want you saddled with their legal costs if you lose, but I imagine you’re well aware of that risk and have contingency plans / funding in place. But in principle I sincerely hope they win.

It’s not about money.

@Witchcraftandhokum

No sorry op, I'm not with you. As I've said, not a problem that you don't agree with them, making this public, fine. Wanting money from them, not OK.

I'm sure OP can respond but I don't think she's actually after money from them - this case isn't about that.

JamieLeeCurtains OK then. Not really sure why I would lie about the scout thing. But fine.

@ZeldalovesLink

I’m entirely with the girl guides on this. Not that I want you saddled with their legal costs if you lose, but I imagine you’re well aware of that risk and have contingency plans / funding in place. But in principle I sincerely hope they win.

Can you explain your thought processes then?

You want girl guides to be legally allowed to destroy the same sex space that allows females to explore their own identity and debunk gender stereotypes? A tad shortsighted. Turkeys voting for Christmas.

titchy I say this isn't a safeguarding issue as measures could be taken where this wouldn't happen. The same way that schools, including my own, have managed school trips with trans students.

@Witchcraftandhokum

JamieLeeCurtains OK then. Not really sure why I would lie about the scout thing. But fine.

People lie to lend credibility to what they say. Scouts no longer requires a belief so you can now become a leader.

Why don't you think teenage girls sharing tents and showers with male bodied teens is a safeguarding issue? Not being goady, but I really can't understand why anyone with a modicum of safeguarding knowledge can't see that

My brothers were scouts in the 90s. My mum was a leader. My brother went on to be a leader. The majority of other leaders at their pack were not religious, including my brother.
My school friend and her Mum are Brownie leaders. They aren't religious either.

Anyone who thinks having boys is what is advertised as a girl only space really needs to go and read my previous posts and then tell me theres no need for them.

@Witchcraftandhokum

titchy I say this isn't a safeguarding issue as measures could be taken where this wouldn't happen. The same way that schools, including my own, have managed school trips with trans students.

Cross post. Except that GG's own guidance, linked on this thread, doesn't include taking into account the females affected, or address the issue of parental consent. So you can say you're sure things will be dealt with properly, but the policies that leaders should follow don't do that.

titchy and I did say in my post about the scouts I think this has changed now.

No safeguarding policy ever has encouraged people to routinely hide things from parents. Safeguarding cannot happen in this environment.

Well done to guides for fighting this prejudice. I hope they win.

Excellent post madwoman - I completely agree that we need to be able to discuss with girls how gender stereotypes are harmful and oppress women. I work with women who've experienced trauma, and they definitely behave differently with a trans woman in the room, deferring to and centering them and begin less open, it must be much harder for teenage girls to speak up.

It's the keeping it secret from parents that's a very major safeguarding issue.

There's now case law on this, yes?

@Viviennemary what prejudice is that?