To ask if you are OK with your daughter's subs being spent on this?

[KatieAlcock]

I've just come to update you on my case against Girlguiding, where they expelled me for raising safeguarding concerns and for asking why we had to believe in inner gender identity to be a leader.
Girlguiding have spent AT LEAST £35,000 and probably more like £100,000 of the subs you pay for your daughter to go to Rainbows, Brownies or Guides, on defending a case against me, a committed leader who wants to make sure girls are safe and leaders have freedom of expression.

Full text of my update in the next post so as not to bore you to death!

There literally are not trans rapists trying to creep into children's beds, tents and showers.
Does being trans make people magically good then?
Because any safeguarding expert will tell you there are plenty of PEOPLE who are paedophiles trying to creep etc etc.

Anyway you haven't answered as to who you think should be in GG? I'm really hoping for a legal and inclusionary answer because GG don't seem to be able to manage either.

I don't have an opinion on it right now, in all honesty. I joined up because one of my children was desperate to join up and she loves it.

So I don't have an answer for you.

But I can say this. We never had leaders in our tents. They weren't allowed in our bathrooms. Showers were always secure and we showered and dressed separately (as a Guide, at camp we all changed inside our sleeping bags).

When I'm holding a meeting, I am not allowed to go in the toilets if there's any children in there. I haven't been camping with our unit yet, as a leader, but I can check this, I really doubt we share the kids tents. It was never done before.

I cannot answer questions about whether trans children are allowed to share a tiny with non trans children. But I'm guessing I could ask that too.

I really do think there could be more ways to ensure safety and well-being than preventing any trans adults or children from having any involvement.

I also really don't think many trans adults or children would be interested in GG over scouting. Scouts would be far more inclusive.

Scouts wouldn't have the validation aspect though would it.

Its why they went after girl guides

I have quite often had to sleep in the same hall as girls (or we wouldn't get to go away) and ditto women I'd never met before. I've also taken girls swimming and used the communal change area (I know a lot of schools do too and I'm hoping those also segregate by sex).
And TBF a lot of it is about knowledge, not whether an individual is trans. Would I be OK with a Beaver aged child of mine sharing a changing room with a child of the opposite sex? Well, I am pretty sure I would. Would I be OK with this if I wasn't told it was happening? Probably not. Would I be OK if they were both teenagers? Almost certainly not.

If you ask "will my girl be sharing a tent wIth a member of the opposite sex" I'm afraid current policy is "you are not allowed to know". So you can ask away.

Scouts have never allowed sharing by adults and children and yet somehow many many Scout leaders have managed to abuse children. GG main protection has been having female leaders.

"it's why they went after girl guides"

This makes it sound like a large movement of predators. If it was, then we would all have been brought in to discuss it.

I really don't think many people would choose GG solely for some validation of their sex/gender etc.

Yes cos discussing it has worked out so well hasnt it.

2 guide leaders were fired for bringing it to the attention of the public.

Guides still claim to be a "single gender" organisation.

Here "they" means numbers of transactivist organisations such as Gendered Intelligence, Stonewall etc.
And you are dreaming, fellow Guide, if you think GG discuss any changes with leaders.

Why do people have such difficulty understanding that safeguarding is not about saying that X=Y.

Its about the possibility, however remote, that something could happen.

It absolutely is coordinated. It’s also why they went after Hampstead Ladies Pond when there already is a men’s pond and a mixed pond. Access to facilities - which trans people already have, quite rightly - is not sufficient. For the activists it’s about validation. MTF trans activists must have access to female spaces for validation. If it was just about swimming they’d use whichever one of the two other ponds was more appealing.

That’s why all the noise is about access to female spaces. Trans men are not trying to burst into male spaces Such as changing rooms because men wouldn’t stand for it and because they don’t have the same requirement for validation which must override men’s privacy (obviously safety is much less of a consideration in this scenario).

@Yawwwwwwwn

"it's why they went after girl guides"

This makes it sound like a large movement of predators. If it was, then we would all have been brought in to discuss it.

I really don't think many people would choose GG solely for some validation of their sex/gender etc.

To quote Vivienne Leigh in Waterloo Bridge, 'Oh Lady Margaret, you are naive.'

Although I'll be willing to debate replacing 'large' with 'relatively medium-large, yet hugely significant'.

I was a GG leader for a few years and left because of unrelated safeguarding issues. The problem with volunteers is that some of them are as thick as pig shit and some of them are just in it because they like a bit of "power" and bullying a bunch of little girls is a good way for them to achieve that.
I have spent an entire weekend listening to them bleat on about how such a girls mother is having an affair, or some other girl is a "little bitch, just like her mother". They even had nasty nicknames for the girls which the leaders daughters and other favourites were privy to.

I have no particular views on transgendered kids joining but as an organisation, it needs reforming.

IME, Cadets (Army/Air/Sea) is a million times better led, fairer, more exciting and far cheaper.

@Yawwwwwwwn

I don't have an opinion on it right now, in all honesty. I joined up because one of my children was desperate to join up and she loves it.

So I don't have an answer for you.

But I can say this. We never had leaders in our tents. They weren't allowed in our bathrooms. Showers were always secure and we showered and dressed separately (as a Guide, at camp we all changed inside our sleeping bags).

When I'm holding a meeting, I am not allowed to go in the toilets if there's any children in there. I haven't been camping with our unit yet, as a leader, but I can check this, I really doubt we share the kids tents. It was never done before.

I cannot answer questions about whether trans children are allowed to share a tiny with non trans children. But I'm guessing I could ask that too.

I really do think there could be more ways to ensure safety and well-being than preventing any trans adults or children from having any involvement.

I also really don't think many trans adults or children would be interested in GG over scouting. Scouts would be far more inclusive.

It sounds as if you're not really experienced enough as a leader tbh, not with safeguarding as a practice. If you were you'd have realised that there will occasionally be situations that could be exploited and leave your charges very vulnerable or open to abuse. The guidelines you are sure exist have been posted. They go into quite a lot of detail about how the trans girl should be accommodated and how her feelings should be paramount. Nothing about the feelings and privacy of the others. Don't forget senior section are aged 14-18.

If you genuinely can't see the issue with 14 year old Nadia, from a strict Muslim family, sharing a tent and shower with 17 year old Jane-who-used-to-be-John then may I respectfully suggest you step back from leading.

The issue for me remains that the feelings and rights of males are being put above those of females.

All these woke people are just ignoring questions about whether they would be Okay with a boy at a 'girls' sleepover, or if their 12 yo daughter had to share an open changing room with 12 yo boys, or sleep in the same bunk room as five 15 yo boys.

It's not transphobia to want to protect spaces for females.

Most organisations do get rid of people who do not share their values.

In this case the values were honesty and upholding safeguarding.

Why would an organisation get rid of people who want to make sure parents are informed and that their kids are kept safe.

Seems an odd thing to not to agree with dont ya think?

@D4rwin

Most organisations do get rid of people who do not share their values.

Which is fine.

If they consulted the people who are running units and the consensus was agreed upon.

But when they struggle to get leaders and girls leave because they can't join in or don't feel comfortable, because they've backtracked on a century of principles and guidelines.... and Girl Guiding struggles to survive and girls have lost yet ANOTHER space.

The woke few can applaud themselves in the great job they've done.

Hooray.

@D4rwin

Most organisations do get rid of people who do not share their values.

Indeed.

Would you let your child attend a group who had shown such disregard for the safety and dignity of its members though. Whilst pretending otherwise?

@D4rwin

Are you GENUINELY saying that if your child went away on a trip with an organisation.
And you found out that your 11yo girl child was made to share a bunk room and bathroom facilities with five 15 yo boys, and she wasn't allowed to say anything about it or complain and had no access to a private area away from those boys.
And you weren't told about this, despite the school knowing this is the situation your child would be faced with.

You'd be okay with that? You'd think... cool, no worries, no issues?

You are suing a charity because you hold a different views to theirs. Completely unreasonable.

I appreciate your views are based on scientific fact. But I didn't sue the scouts when they said I couldn't be a leader because I didn't believe in a fictional diety.

Witch but they were a single sex organisation. The move to include male bodies was made completely without consulting parents. I've removed my child for this reason.

Its not right to claim to still be single sex when they have become open to non girls bodies.

@Witchcraftandhokum

You are suing a charity because you hold a different views to theirs. Completely unreasonable.

I appreciate your views are based on scientific fact. But I didn't sue the scouts when they said I couldn't be a leader because I didn't believe in a fictional diety.

It's not a different view - it's a lack of safeguarding and forcing her to lie to parents about said lack of safeguarding.

15 year old comes back from camp perhaps having shared a tent with 16 year old male, 15 year olds parents were not told that would happen. You ok with that?

Scouts open to non-believers now btw

15 year old comes back from camp perhaps*

*Pregnant.

But I didn't sue the scouts when they said I couldn't be a leader because I didn't believe in a fictional diety.

Do you really have letter that says that?!

Look, as a brownie leader, there is very little that you can teach about biology. At that age, it’s all ‘girls and boys can do anything’ and your job at empowering the girls in your group is pretty bloody simple.
I assume that you don’t have older daughters, yawn, and are not in a position where you get to hear a lot of teenage girl discussion. Or think wider about the fact that biology is the determining factor in their lives (being ‘real’) and that gender is the factor that they should be fighting against.
My guiding members are 12-18. These girls (I have no transgirls in my unit) speak openly and as part of our programming we take apart gender. We also take apart the concept of non-binary. We discuss societal attitudes to females. We look at the millennium development goals and why they they were selected, and how disproportionately females are affected globally in education, healthcare, poverty and we look at maternity. And death rates. We look at peer pressure, and how women and girls are coerced into behaving for societal approval. Including the pressure to appear fuckable. (I obv don’t use that term with my teens. ) we look at identity and how we want to portray ourselves. We look at clothes and make-up and hygiene and we discuss what makes us feel good. And what we do to please other people. And the balance. And we discuss how to carefully negotiate peer pressure. For sex, for drugs, for alcohol, for human relationships. We look at male violence against women. We discuss how to deal with your period on a five day back-country camp, and how to squeeze the blood out of your sanitary wear before you bag it and pack it out. We discuss how to stay clean in the back-country when you are bleeding.
They tell me all sorts of things.
One 15yo told me she was deliberately flunking maths because boys didn’t like clever girls. (That fuckability thing again). I’ve had numerous girls come out as lesbian or bi, and we discuss whether it is appropriate for those relationships to be actively noticeable at meetings or camp. When I take groups of teenage girls travelling internationally, particularly to mixed sex camps, I make it very clear that any sexual contact with either a male or a female will result in them being returned home at their parents expense.
Non-binary is a get-out. It means you have to accept gender in order to decide you are special enough to not identify with it. Presumably you accept you are a mother and will talk to your dd about pregnancy and menstruation. You know it’s not possible to opt out of biology.
I can’t be in a position as a leader who runs a group of teenage girls where I can compromise that biology is real and gender stereotypes are to be fought against. I cannot be in a position where because I have a male teenage youth in my unit l can’t discuss what happens to females globally. I cannot be in the position where I have to pretend that gender stereotypes don’t suck, because they literally rule the life of the boy in the room who thinks that he is a girl.
I discuss gender. I discuss dysphoria. I discuss how non-binary seems like a great idea because no-one on earth wants to fit into a socially constructed box, but it’s a western privilege and fails to acknowledge the biological realities that affect women and girls.
Brownies? Sure, whatevs. A few kids running round a church hall. Sex isn’t relevant. I know a few guiders who think they are so fucking brilliant because they have boys in their Rainbows unit. I stare at them aghast because they have no fucking clue that what they are doing now is going to destroy guiding for teenage females, where it is so important.
And that unit even touching on the ethnic groups who GG have spent so many years trying to make welcome that have now been dismissed in favour of boys.
I don’t give a flying fuck about rapists in context. I care about the teenage girls who are no longer going to have a safe space where we can deconstruct gender. Not fucking celebrate it.
And for those of you who are concerned that my unit is a joyless hairy legged bunch of harpies, fear not. I have girls who would rival the fecking mermaids Barbie, as well as those with shaved undercuts who live in mutant ninja turtles hoodies and sweatpants and eschew deodorant for ethical reasons. I love and celebrate them all, because females can do whatever the fuck they want. Just because we discuss make up doesn’t mean I give them a set of rules. We have girls from three schools and we discuss peer-differences. In x school, the girls feel like they have to wear sexy clothes and make-up to fit in. Another school bars spaghetti straps. We discuss possible reasons for societal rules and conformity v rebellion.
And we go on all night hikes and travel internationally and canoe and invite female politicians of all stripes in. And we bake. Masterchef mystery box is our favourite meeting. And we run a reduce reuse recycle clothing swap where they all bring in unwanted items and try stuff they wouldn’t normally wear and go home with new to them, and we donate the rest to women’s shelters.
I know this was a rant. Sorry.
Girls need female spaces to be able to discuss that the social construction of gender is balls.
Think about what you are destroying. By removing these spaces, you are literally cementing gender further.
Enby my arse.

There are a ton of charities whose views I don't agree with. I chose not to work for them or give them money. This charity has changed their values, you didn't agree with that and that's fine. But the Guide's have loads of members who are absolutely fine with this and the OP is costing them money. I don't think that's OK. I also disagree that this is a safeguarding issue. (and I work in safeguarding)