Insulted key worker wage rises don't include nurses

[nowayhose]

Just what it says really, I'm insulted that police/ fire service/ paramedics are all getting a descent wage rise as recognition for their above and beyond efforts during Cornavirus pandemic, but nurses get bugger all as they're still in the process of getting the 3 year gradual wage increase. (even after this 3 year incremental wage increase, nurses pay will be well below what the other emergency services get)

what other professions do they think there are where you do the same job for years or decades but get regular pay rises?

Virtually all jobs get at least pay rises with inflation. Nurses went 8 years, and then lots of us received a pay cut.

@Sisterwives

"what other professions do they think there are where you do the same job for years or decades but get regular pay rises?"

Just looked on the website for the place where I worked before I trained as a nurse, they are currently recruiting for my old job (which you can just walk into). I was on about £16,000 when I left, and pay went up each year in line with inflation or more. The salary now is just under £20,000.

@Popc0rn Yeah, a lot less than 25k. Same with all my family members in the private sector too.

This is the problem isn't it. I am not unsympathetic to nurses, and teachers, wanting a pay increase for the conditions they now work in, the knowledge needed, and relative to the living costs (i.e. house prices).

But the fact is that this is a low wage economy for all, and really, the constantly complaining about 'low wages' when they start on wages other jobs top out at is getting right on my nerves. Teachers please take note too, as they're the people who are seriously pissing me off right now! I do not know what 'professions' you keep on comparing yourself to, but I have links to two or three others, and all are paid less than nurses and teachers, comparing seniority. Much less. I know one teacher I spoke to (whinged at me while I did her job at one third her cost-) was comparing herself to a top-level military defence expert. Get real.

It's difficult, private sector don't give pay rise annually to most people doing the same job, pension scheme is poor in comparison, job is less secure than ever in a lot of sectors because they are allowed to outsource jobs aboard.

People lost their jobs due to covid not by choice, a lot of people who also had been working very hard during the pandemic will be happy just to able to keep their jobs despite a pay cut!

I do feel priority should be helping people get back to work, we need to kick start our economy so nhs can be better funded.

@Pepperwort

I agree. I was actually shocked when I found out what my private sector family members were being paid.

I'm not saying nurses shouldn't be paid more for what they do but I don't agree it's that low paid and like I said, if they can walk into a less stressful job for the same money, I see no reason to not do that if you hate the job, feel burnt out or undervalued etc.

But I don't think it's the case at all. If nurses are complaining they feel trapped in nursing because they can't find other careeers to go straight into that would pay equally, THAT I would completely understand.

I considered leaving the NHS a couple of years ago (just felt I wanted new challenges after 22 years) and there was nothing I could find that I could go into even with all the transferable skills that nursing gives you that would pay anywhere near my salary. Not even close. Even if I used my nursing reg, all the private sector nursing jobs I saw were lower paid (or it worked out that way with less leave etc).

And it totally depends when you live. Apart from London who I think? still get a cost of living supplement, NHS pay is the same everywhere else. Where I live (SW), rents and living costs are high, if I lived where I was born (Yorkshire) I would have a very high standard of living on my salary.

@Pepperwort I don't know who's comparing themselves to a military defence expert, but you can't compare graduate professions with roles where the wage 'tops out' at the starting salary of other jobs.

Where someone has achieved a degree, and usually completed a masters level course to qualify in their job role, they usually do have the knowledge and skills beyond those needed for a job where the final salary is much lower.

What band are you OP? You said you've been in nursing for nearly 30 years? So you must be top band 6 or more? Even if just top band 6 that's almost £40k a year plus unsocial hours enhancements.

Not saying nurses don't deserve more but you said you're paid peanuts. I don't think most people would agree.

Tabletime I suppose it might depend on what you are calling a graduate profession. More jobs now require degrees than ever before. IT is usually thought of as high pay. Outside the MN or London universes, you need an IT degree to do helpdesk work now and they can start on 18k. Childcare is famously low paid for a sector that requires high qualifications. If you define only nursing and teaching as graduate professions then you’re on a high road to nowhere. Neither require masters degrees incidentally.

I don’t know why you think you can’t compare jobs that top out at the levels your definition of graduate jobs start at when they require the same tasks to be performed using the same skill sets.

... but having re-read that I think I misunderstood you . And the other reading is fair. Just that they’re often lumped together as poorly paid.

My DD will qualify next year for 24k pa. OR she can go to Aus for £46k pa.
If she stays in the UK, her rent will take 1/2 of her disposable income.

A low wage economy is all very well but it doesn't generate taxes nor does it give its workers the means to keep our consumer driven economy going.

I wouldn't get out of bed for the starting salary of a nurse, its a joke wage, 50k worth of debt (and no earnings for 3 years) for a poverty salary.

I've cut to the end, a thing I don't usually do, 200 posts in.

HCPs have good reason to be angry, regarding missing out on this largesse.

But it's instructive to see who has been rewarded: hospital consultants, usually key Tory voters. 🧐

I recognise we, HCPs, are still in a three year pay rise thing. It's not great, but it isn't crap.

However.... What about care workers in care-homes?? What the actual?? It is about time we all were made to wake up and recognise that aged care is the elephant in the room.

The carers must be a) qualified, b) trained, and c) properly remunerated.

And we need to be prepared to shell out- maybe (gasp) via the sale of mum's house. You know, the one you'll inherit; the one dad bought for £6000 in 1975, but is now worth £600,000.

Mum didn't 'earn' that, she 'sat on that'.

How about selling that and releasing that cash to pay for mum's dementia care, given that the actuaries of 1940 had her dying at 65, not 90? And, in paying for it, ensure properly trained, and paid, carers.

Win/win- except for those who feel it's their birthright is to also benefit from mum's unearned wealth.

Like our 'ruling class' do, by the by.

Lots of people thinking it’s a good salary. It is for the non-graduate job it used to be. Now a degree is needed. Most graduate jobs start at a higher wage than £25k. For the band 6 and above jobs a Masters is often needed (not for all band 6’s) but there’s often no funding for this so people are self funding to get the requirements to progress when having had pay freeze after pay freeze.

@jajas1973

I think your DD might want to check that. £46k would be over 80k Australian dollars and newly qualified nurses are not paid anything near that there.

Newly paid nurses in Australia may be paid more comparitively to newly qualified in the UK but the cost of living is higher.

@Foxinsocks1

Where are you working that often Band 6 jobs require a Masters??

Can you link me a Band 6 job advertisement that says you need a Masters? I've honestly never seen one so i'm genuinely asking. I've just looked at over 20 Band 6 advertisements in my area (2 trusts). Not one says you need a Masters.

I'm Band 7, no masters. My Band 8a BF doesn't have a Masters either.

@Pepperwort

This is the problem isn't it. I am not unsympathetic to nurses, and teachers, wanting a pay increase for the conditions they now work in, the knowledge needed, and relative to the living costs (i.e. house prices).

But the fact is that this is a low wage economy for all, and really, the constantly complaining about 'low wages' when they start on wages other jobs top out at is getting right on my nerves. Teachers please take note too, as they're the people who are seriously pissing me off right now! I do not know what 'professions' you keep on comparing yourself to, but I have links to two or three others, and all are paid less than nurses and teachers, comparing seniority. Much less. I know one teacher I spoke to (whinged at me while I did her job at one third her cost-) was comparing herself to a top-level military defence expert. Get real.

You're not unsympathetic? Rightio. Sorry that us teachers are pissing you off pepperwort. Fact is we have actually had a substantial pay cut since 2010 and are paid nowhere near what we should be for the job that we do. while I did her job at one third of her cost aye right, course you did. All the planning? All the paperwork? I'm curious to know which professions you are comparing teaching to? That nurses aren't paid more for what they do whilst being expected to self fund their nursing degrees is a national scandal. It's simply not good enough to say it's a low wage economy for all and that's patently not true anyway.

@Sisterwives specialist public health nurses - changing to masters only courses for a band 6 role. All new 7’s in public health need masters or at least a masters module. I’m now stuck until I can afford to self fund.

Myothercar. Well, very close to it. TA, intervention work with individuals and groups and phonics lessons. I had to assess the needs of children, work out appropriate targets - this much with liaising with class teachers, itself a key skill, but much was left to me - research those needs, choose activities, deliver them. And the target paperwork too. On £10 an hour, for hours present in school only, no extra for the work done outside. Not long after speaking to that teacher I had a TA meeting where TAs were berated for not planning sufficiently creative phonics lessons and told to go off and research better activities. All similarly paid by the hour, for hours present only. Perhaps not quite full teacher workload, in that it wasn’t full classes: but far more than we’re paid for, and worth far more than one third of a teachers salary, especially while they whinge at me about having exactly the same pay rise conditions of everyone else I know in the private sector.

Bearing in mind that we do have a low-wage economy, nurses seem to have an average-good wage to me. I work in a scientific field and graduate analysts generally start on far less than the £25k new nurses start on. No guaranteed progression/pay points or pay rises either.

The issue is, there are lots of people in comparable level jobs (or even higher level jobs) on lower or similar wages to nurses. So while many people are sympathetic to nurses’ wages, it does grate a little when they’re actually being paid more (& have better job security).

Which I will be trying very hard to move back to as soon as my kids are old enough to be left alone as I am totally sickened by the entitlement and ignorance of education. Everyone funds their own degrees now fgs, did you miss what I said about IT?

@Foxinsocks1 You mean health visiting? Can you link to that please? Going back about 6/7 years ago they had a big recruitment drive and we're trying to get me and my (then band 6) workmates to move over and offering to pay band 6 while we did additional training so that's a big change. So you're a band 5 now? Is that the only role you'll consider?

@Pepperwort

Myothercar. Well, very close to it. TA, intervention work with individuals and groups and phonics lessons. I had to assess the needs of children, work out appropriate targets - this much with liaising with class teachers, itself a key skill, but much was left to me - research those needs, choose activities, deliver them. And the target paperwork too. On £10 an hour, for hours present in school only, no extra for the work done outside. Not long after speaking to that teacher I had a TA meeting where TAs were berated for not planning sufficiently creative phonics lessons and told to go off and research better activities. All similarly paid by the hour, for hours present only. Perhaps not quite full teacher workload, in that it wasn’t full classes: but far more than we’re paid for, and worth far more than one third of a teachers salary, especially while they whinge at me about having exactly the same pay rise conditions of everyone else I know in the private sector.

Nope sorry that's nowhere near what teachers are expected to do. You're clueless about what a teacher's job entails to even suggest any kind of equivalence. I agree that you were expected to do more than you were paid for though. not nice when you feel like someone is taking the piss is it? And ... sorry ... IT? Don't make me fucking laugh. that is not a 'profession'.

£24k a poverty wage? I think a loss of reality might be the issue here. Also if you train to be a nurse you are guaranteed a job, many graduates aren't, which is fine, you know that when you choose a degree; but many earn way below £25k.

@Stingybath

£24k a poverty wage? I think a loss of reality might be the issue here. Also if you train to be a nurse you are guaranteed a job, many graduates aren't, which is fine, you know that when you choose a degree; but many earn way below £25k.

For someone who is a graduate £24K is really low. The lack of pay increases compounds the issue. My daughter entered a private sector media company five years ago. She now earns upwards of £90K a year, admittedly in London. There is money in the system, it's just that we don't value our public sector employees - particularly nurses and care workers enough to reward them properly.