Insulted key worker wage rises don't include nurses

[nowayhose]

Just what it says really, I'm insulted that police/ fire service/ paramedics are all getting a descent wage rise as recognition for their above and beyond efforts during Cornavirus pandemic, but nurses get bugger all as they're still in the process of getting the 3 year gradual wage increase. (even after this 3 year incremental wage increase, nurses pay will be well below what the other emergency services get)

On the other hand, all NHS staff are paid more, debt goes up, NHS can't afford to continue and is privatised meaning more money within healthcare but the cost to service users pushes many out of being able to afford healthcare.

It's such a complex area with so many factors at play it isn't as simple as paying more. As much as many nurses/HCAs/NHS employees deserve it.

Its not just the nurses and Dr's in the NHS who have worked every day during Covid, housekeepers, admin, porters etc have all been in at work and worked a lot more than usual too and again no pay rise for them.

I am a band 6 nurse, I work part time. My children and I live just above the poverty line. I don't do my job for the money, but a proper pay rise would be amazing

OP - imo, the care industry needs sorting out more! It’s not a competition, but care workers are often on NMW - and are probably just as exhausted and demoralised, where there have been many deaths?

@cookiemon666 work more hours?

then these people will either burn out, become unwell or simply leave.

I don't get how that correlates to how much you get paid an hour. If you earn an extra 2% a year do you suddenly not feel burnt out?

Nurses pay isn’t that bad? Just google nurses pay scales and nurses start on grade 5 which is nearly £25,000. Totally think they are worth but please be honest about how much you earn. Also they get lots more at weekends.

@ DarkMintChocolate

Although most of my post was a personal perspective as a nurse, I've said all key workers should be given a % based wage rise.

I'm talking about ALL key workers i.e Homecare staff, lorry drivers, porters, HCSW, data service staff, food shop staff, waste disposal staff etc etc All the people who had no option but to put themselves at risk daily in order to keep the country afloat, fed and cared for. ALL the heroes of the pandemic.

I'm not trying to compete with any other sector, I'm advocating a recognition and commensurate rewarding of all key sectors.

I know it won't happen, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't say it should happen.

@ Stingybath

A wage increase would mean the sector would be more attractive to potential employees, and an increase in staff numbers would reduce the workload on existing staff.
If the workload is less then the stress is less and you're not being made to do without breaks and work unpaid overtime etc, all of which is what contributes to staff burnout.
THAT'S how it helps. It means staff would then have a manageable workload instead of trying to cover for the gaps in staff. Combine that with a realistic wage increase, and I'm sure existing staff would be more inclined to stay, and new staff could be employed when a vacancy existed ( unlike now when there are thousands of vacancies which are not being filled )

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

The police haven't had a pay rise in 8 years. They are getting around 3%.

Private sector workplaces five between 1.5 and 2.5 every year

Some might. Not all. We haven't had a pay rise in 7 years.

What's likely to happen is more cuts to services and NHS managers are already discussing some service redesigns and redeployments.

Every single trusts wage budget overspend will be greater this year than ever by millions of pounds.

I would have thought that better funding for the access course and financial support so that those with responsibilities but who are passionate and have relevent experience can access the nursing degree; eradicating fees for nursing students and providing a livable bursary (or reducing placement hours so they can work part time), again so that the many who want to but cannot afford to can study. The dropout rate may be less as a lot with caring experience etc also have family commitments. Not that school leavers etc are not good nurses, just that others are too; a restructuring to ensure that the spread of staff across grades and at the top is more balanced; the option for more flexible working patterns; investment in support for nurses; things such as free parking, and overall better investment in facilities and equipment might help with retention more than a few extra quid? I don't see how an extra however much will reduce retention rates beyond a tiny fraction. I'm sure when the NHS is privatised pay will be better.

@ Stay123

You're not taking into account that for that wage, they are responsible for life and death decisions and are expected to have vast knowledge ( not just medical but social, emotional and psychological too) and the maturity to be able to hold their own (in the face of much more senior medical staff who love to intimidate) and be an advocate for their patients. While they are trying to all this, they are often physically and verbally attacked, have bodily fluids thrown at them, berrated by management and relatives both in person and on the phone, threatened, work for 12.5 hours often without or with minimal rest breaks etc...............the list is endless.

So, with all that in mind, yeah I DO think the wages are crap

And they're worse than when I began nursing almost 30 years ago !

@nowayhose Sounds like you just need to leave nursing. If you can make the same money doing something less stressful, go for it.

@Stay123

A newly qualified nurse starts on just shy of £25,000 true.

They also have other costs to cover, like:
NMC fees: £120 a year
Pension contributions (7.1% of salary, goes up to 9.3% once you earn over £26,000): £147 per month
Car parking: £28 per month
Unison: £14 per month

The starting salary isn't terrible granted, but considering a nurse at the top of band 5 got paid 27k a decade ago, and they now get paid 30k, it's not kept up with the cost of living much.

@MeadowHay

YABU because the pay rises for other public sector workers is nothing to do with covid, they were the recommendations made by the relevant public sector pay review bodies prior to and independent of covid.

However YANBU to think all of the public sector workers you mention should receive adequate pay.

This. Had to quote it to highlight it again. These pay rises were planned back in January. It's simply political spin that it's anything to do with covid.

@nowayhose

@ DarkMintChocolate

Although most of my post was a personal perspective as a nurse, I've said all key workers should be given a % based wage rise.

I'm talking about ALL key workers i.e Homecare staff, lorry drivers, porters, HCSW, data service staff, food shop staff, waste disposal staff etc etc All the people who had no option but to put themselves at risk daily in order to keep the country afloat, fed and cared for. ALL the heroes of the pandemic.

I'm not trying to compete with any other sector, I'm advocating a recognition and commensurate rewarding of all key sectors.

I know it won't happen, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't say it should happen.

But it isn't a reward for key workers

@nowayhose

You're right that the responsibility doesn't match the pay. I've had a few different nursing jobs, and some are much more stressful and have greater responsibility than others, but are all paid the same flat rate. Working on a medical ward was much harder work than when I worked on a surgical ward for example. I had less patients to look after and they were more independent compared to the medical ward.

@nowayhose yes I agree they earn it and have lots of responsibility, I didn’t say they didn’t. Still think £25 is a very good starting salary, plus don’t ignore the fact they get at least 33% more for working weekends or nights, or is it double pay?. Why is this never mentioned?

Nursing pay is ok if compared to jobs that anyone can walk into.

Compared to jobs with similar requirements for training, professional registration and legal responsibility, it is diabolical.

I feel the same way OP. In the same position. I don't think the most recent agenda for change pay deal delivered on what we were all promised and it stifles pay progression. It was a real terms pay cut by the time you take into account inflation and increased tax / nics and pension deductions. I'm utterly demoralised.

[quote Stay123]@nowayhose yes I agree they earn it and have lots of responsibility, I didn’t say they didn’t. Still think £25 is a very good starting salary, plus don’t ignore the fact they get at least 33% more for working weekends or nights, or is it double pay?. Why is this never mentioned?[/quote]
A very good salary? For a graduate profession? It really isn't.

@Stay123

It's 30% extra for Saturdays or night shifts, and 60% extra for a Sunday.

Pension deductions also come off antisocial hours enhancements, so for a newly qualified nurse doing a 12 hour Saturday day shift or a weekday night shift, it's about £28 extra for the whole shift, for a Sunday it's about £56 per shift.

Maybe you should look into nursing if you think the salary is good? It's definitely recession proof at least!

Nursing pay is ok if compared to jobs that anyone can walk into.

What job can you walk into for £25k? A lot of low earners never progress to an annual wage of 25.

I was wondering what job you can walk into at 25k too.

I'm also wondering why some nurses are saying they're stuck at band top band 5 or 6 for decades? And if that's the case, what other professions do they think there are where you do the same job for years or decades but get regular pay rises?