AIBU to not trust my gut on man I'm dating?

[StartingAgain33]

I've been dating someone for three months. He's thoughtful, intelligent, successful, wants the same things in life as me and has made it clear that he sees a future with me (as much as someone can in such a short space of time). He also has literally built my dream life and is inviting me to be a part of it. But my gut keeps telling me to run away, and my therapist says that one of my key challenges is learning to tune into and act on my gut. I'm obsessing and would love your thoughts.

I worry I'm focusing on the negatives too much. I'm about to be 36, keen to have children and tired of being in a dating pool with guys that either don't have their shit together and so by default aren't ready for kids, or who are emotionally avoidant and not willing to put their cards on the table. This guy is neither of those things, and is up for doing the work of a real relationship. So I worry this is just my commitment issues - and potentially anxiety at having met someone so amazing - coming to the fore. What would you think?

Good things:

• He is open about wanting to settle down, feeling ready for children (a priority for me), about having done the necessary work to get to this point with a therapist (he went to boarding school from a young age and was very starved of love - so had a very avoidant dating pattern). He had one 18 month relationship which ended last year which he said went a long way to healing some of his commitment issues. However, he never loved her and they broke it off as they both felt (I think it was more that he felt) that what they had wasn't 'enough'. This was after they had moved in together to test the relationship (I kind of think you should know if you love someone before making that move, and wonder how much anxiety she was hiding?)
• He is very successful and leads a really great life. He's open and generous with this life - introducing me to friends and family, making fun trips happen all the time
• His future vision is the same as mine to an uncanny degree
• He's not afraid to challenge me and be honest about things, something which I find difficult (I have an anxious attachment pattern)
• Seems to have a realistic view of what to expect from relationships
• He's very good at going for what he wants and making things happen, which I find attractive
• Has great, very close long-term friendships - shows he is capable of longer term intimacy
• Is very up for 'doing the work' in a relationship
• Is kind when I open up to him about difficulties, and makes an effort to be there for me
• Is very consistent with communication, very much leading on this aspect of our relationship

Bad things:

• He has a very avoidant past (41 years old, has had one relationship in the past 20 or so years and many flings), and I think may have difficulty in general connecting to people. Even though I know this, I keep blame myself for what I feel is a lack of connection in our interactions (I'm not sure he feels this too, although I'm thinking about asking him as it's driving me crazy - like an elephant in the room)
• I just have a terrible gut feeling a lot of the time. When I'm with him, there's a sort of stilted atmosphere (I feel) and I don't feel able to relax. We hardly laugh. He's quiet quite a lot. He's been honest that he has abandonment issues and that he is hypervigilant to signs of rejection, which makes him quiet, so I've tried to have patience with it but I also feel hypervigilant around him. I've tried to spend lots of time with him to get over this and it's still there most of the time
• Talks about relationships as 'work' a lot - feels a little joyless
• Despite talking quite a lot about money / having lots of investments and also enough savings to never have to work again, he has let me somehow do all of the grocery shopping for every visit we've had. Majority of these have been me going to his city, which is nicer to hang out in as it's close to the countryside, so I'm spending money on train tickets AND about £80 at least every single time. This is really stacking up. In comparison, he knows that at 35 I'm still saving for a housing deposit and am going through an expensive egg freezing process. He is extremely frugal in general. The one time he paid of out food on a visit (because I lost my bank card) he asked me to settle up with him afterwards. He probably doesn't realise how much I've spent, as I've not communicated this and frankly find it awkward and quite rude that he wouldn't enquire himself or just say 'I'll pay for groceries next time'. Of all the things, strangely, this one makes me most angry and uncomfortable. I guess because we're from very different social classes and I would never want to be seen as a gold digger (he knows this, we've spoken about the fact that I've always dated people from a 'higher' class than me and that I've always gone at least halves or paid for more because I don't want to be seen as with them for their money)
• I find our conversation often turns to serious subjects - trauma, how messed up someone is, work stuff - and there is little lightness. He is a thoughtful and quite serious character, I think, but I also worry this is just a chemistry thing and he'd be better with someone else (which then makes me want to fix it)
• Because he's very open about wanting to settle down, it can sometimes make me feel like he is being spurred by that rather than wanting to be with ME. This could be my paranoia. But he doesn't often express how he actually feels about me, or why. He expresses his affection, I guess, through wanting to spend lots of time together, but even this feels a little intense / out of kilter with our level of emotional intimacy. Lockdown and living in different cities doesn't help - our dates are several days long, which I think I find a bit much
• He's commented a few times about how I have a higher sex drive than him / enjoy it more. This makes me feel self conscious about asking for sex. When I did the one time, last week, he was too tired. We didn't have enough physical closeness in my four day visit for me to feel particularly cared for or happy. In general I find him just quite distant. Sex feels a little transactional - like he'll do the minimum to make me orgasm, then he's like 'job done' and then gets his and it's over. There isn't enough kissing or general sensuality for me. I don't feel very connected with him
• I said I was uncomfy meeting his parents on our third ever date (it was a week long, and we'd been talking on zoom for a month before meeting, plus we actually know eachother from 13 years ago in a work context, but still). He said that was fine and they weren't coming, then the day before told me they actually were and I could 'hide in the house as they'd be in the garden and he'd just say I had lots of work to do' if I wanted. I felt intensely uncomfy with this setup so just met them anyway, but felt very awkward. He hadn't seen them all lockdown, and apparently it was just circumstantial that they visited that day, but I felt a little blindsided. I also met his sister and niece on the day, had been living with his other sister for a week and had spent the day with his best friends that week also. It all felt a little much

So - am I looking a gifthorse in the mouth? My anxiety levels are through the roof on this. For some reason I feel like I need to end it NOW even though I know there's loads of great things going for this guy. Any idea what might be going on?

It's a bit early to be even thinking about these things in a relationship. I feel like you're putting a lot of pressure on the relationship...and you're willing to "make do". That's not good enough. You need to be happy, in love, laughing. It doesn't sound like that is where you are at.

I think you need to read your post back to yourself and you'll have your answer. What advice would you give if this was another poster? If you've got all of these things going through your mind, he's not the right one. Trust your gut and you will know when you have met the right one - you won't be questioning yourself!

You are very perceptive, OP, and are lucky to have finely-tuned instincts. I think you are spotting many things which could go wrong - the problem is, for others wanting to help with a view, there isn't yet, a lot of real evidence for what he's all about. But it's easy to sense that after 5 months and 8 months, it will become obvious.

How did he 'suggest' that you buy groceries? Was it 'your share/contribution because he had been paying for the meals out and fun treats and visits? Are you too kind - and ready to offer every time?

Does he have some reason for wanting to show his parents he has a partner now? Does he want to please them?

Is it possible he isn't well-off, doesn't have a good job? It's a bit early to know much about this.

Does his back story stack up? Do you here seem to be gaps, or just not enough detail when he talks about his past? If he uses the same anecdote/words to refer to a person or time, it might be false. Maybe he talks about heavy stuff and ideas because he doesn't want to discuss what he's done in his life.

It is good that you are holding back your feelings because he could be just saying a lot of stuff about commitment but really seeing how things go and being happy to settle for a short-lived fling. Perhaps that's what he does.

He's not afraid to challenge me and be honest about things, something which I find difficult (I have an anxious attachment pattern

I would say he is testing how far he can push you actually and how much he can get away with.

What did you say to him, when he lied about his parents visiting, then not visiting, then all of a sudden visiting again?

He set you right up on that one.
Did you brush it under the carpet, and go and say hello to them like a good girl?

Jesus, run.

And stop saying you are paranoid.

Its instinct, being mindful and having your own back, before some fucker jumps you.

A gift horse in the mouth you say?
A one legged donkey on Blackpool beach would show you more love, loyalty and companionship than that one trick pony.

@Toptotoeunicolour

What stands out for me is the egg freezing. It's a perfectly valid and sensible thing to do which I fully support, but I know when I was in my late thirties and considering the same (as well as other non-nuclear family type options) I was far from relaxed about it. I tried to be and pretended to be, but honestly, it was the end of a sad road for me that I had to think in those terms, and probably for you too. You sound far from relaxed, as if you are hoping upon hope that this is the guy. And there isn't enough in that detailed OP for us to say - only you can know. But I wouldn't dump him for some of the reasons others have said, the money for instance. I am married to a wealthy and (overly) generous man who just didn't realise when we were dating that I had to spend £80 on baby sitters per week when we were dating. He's mortified about it now. They just don't think, it doesn't mean they are mean. Nor the fact that he's sort of serious - frankly you sound very serious too. So what I would say is that if the relationship has any chance of succeeding, you have to relax and give it the room to grow. I say that knowing how hard it is - my late 30s were a dating catastrophe because I couldn't. You should try to do better than me. But even if you can't, rest assured that once the baby situation is out of the way (with either outcome), dating becomes a lot more fun and a lot more relaxed in your 40s, and even 50s in my case.

This is interesting. I've definitely been having big fertility panics, but funnily enough since the egg freezing (I'm doing two more rounds so should have loads) I have felt more relaxed. I am also open to having a kid myself if needed. It's certainly been a sad journey to get here, with a couple of false starts (my last serious relationship was with someone with cancer - I essentially ended up being his carer and it took up most of my early 30s).

I get what you're saying about letting things unfold. Three months isn't long, you're right, but I kind of didn't feel right from the beginning so I have given it some room to grow. I ignored it because I feel at heart he is a good person who is genuine about wanting to settle down. He is also perhaps quite troubled, and perhaps there is a dollop of sympathy in there too.
He fully admits to being 'entitled' and has said he's never been refused anything in his life and I should let him know if he's acting in this way.
You say your husband is generous, which is quite different to this.

I just find the money thing very uncomfortable and I'm not sure I WANT to train him on things like this. Surely it's basic human manners, to at least be equal? I would never ask for more than that. I've kept on paying as I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but now it's happened so many times I feel it's a kind of meanness. I'm naturally very generous and I feel taken advantage of. Perhaps I've done this to myself to some extent but I feel someone else would see what's happening and insist on being equal.

Yes, I can be serious - I am at the moment with all this anxiety. But in previous relationships I've also been very silly, and light. So I think this isn't set in stone for me. With my best friends I laugh a lot. I think I want that in a relationship too.

Is there hope though in finding the right person now, at almost 36, before my fertility runs out?

I think if you focus on beating this ticking biological clock to find the 'whole package' (viable sperm and someone who ticks all your boxes as a relationship partner), you'll inevitably make concessions on the person as time 'runs out'.

No-one freezes their eggs on a whim, so it sounds like you have a backup plan and that you actually do want to give yourself a chance to find someone really lovely first.

I would keep saving for the egg/fertility stuff - although I'd suggest maybe don't chat about it on dates to avoid the abusive types who'll jump at the chance of trapping an unsuspecting woman in domestic servitude with the lure of 'shared' interests and a burning desire for children.

It sounds like you have good instincts so I'd just keep reminding yourself of what's important to you in the long run next time you're questioning whether you should settle for a selfish, boring loser. Bedsides, you'd have selfish, boring babies and he'd probably hide them in cupboards!

Leave him, OP.

To be honest, that would have been my first response anyway. I did read your post to see why on earth you wouldn't trust your gut, but really.

'I just have a terrible gut feeling a lot of the time.'

Trust it. Leave him.

He's generally frugal and he letting you pay for things?

He's tight OP.

He sounds dull, heavy weather, tight and joyless.

Run.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with your gut.

NOTHING!

Bye bye man

@Ernieshere

He's not afraid to challenge me and be honest about things, something which I find difficult (I have an anxious attachment pattern

I would say he is testing how far he can push you actually and how much he can get away with.

What did you say to him, when he lied about his parents visiting, then not visiting, then all of a sudden visiting again?

He set you right up on that one.
Did you brush it under the carpet, and go and say hello to them like a good girl?

Jesus, run.

And stop saying you are paranoid.

Its instinct, being mindful and having your own back, before some fucker jumps you.

A gift horse in the mouth you say?
A one legged donkey on Blackpool beach would show you more love, loyalty and companionship than that one trick pony.

This is amazing and had me laughing. You're right - I did go and say hello like a good girl.

I do feel like he tests to see how far he can get away with things. He said the other day that his dad had some sort of motto like 'anything is fine as long as you don't get caught'.

To those that are questioning his wealth, I definitely know that this is not a lie. He has enough money to never work again, but is still launching businesses and raising millions from investors etc.

But it is also not something that necessarily attracts me - it kind of makes me nervous and like i'm on the back foot. Would prefer someone with their shit together - ie maybe their own flat and some savings - but this level of privilege actually makes me feel quite uncomfy. He leads an extremely charmed life, and sometimes I find this convos with his friends difficult to relate to (about money, business stuff etc) even though I'm actually really well-educated etc myself. I think this is why I haven't spoken up about the money stuff - I' so aware of our differences (and he points them out a lot - has joked a couple of times about me coming from the 'gutter', which I picked him up on) that I don't want to point to the paying stuff as proof that I can't indeed pay my way etc.

Is time running out? Well, I listened to a fertility expert ( a proper research academic expert on a statistics programme) and he said the evidence show there isn't really a fall in fertility until at least 40. Even at age 40+ loads of women still get pregnant quite easily. Apparently its the growth area for abortions as 40+ women think they won't get pregnant (and 40+ men think they don't need to bother with condoms). So you've not got a lifetime ahead of you but you still have time. Where I lived, affluent middle class, it was perfectly normal for women to be starting families 40+.

You would be better going it alone than with someone you are clearly not that happy with and that really will only grow once you have kids together. On my experience you really should only ever have kids with someone you are really, really sure and solid with.

OP you’re right someone should not get to their 40s and still require their girlfriend to teach them how to be considerate of others and split things equally! It is different to paying for a babysitter which is something a man may have never done before, but he knows damn well that train tickets costs money and that if two people are going to be eating the food then two people should be paying towards it!

There is definitely enough in the OP for us to see that this relationship makes OP uncomfortable and there are certainly enough red flags for us to be advising her to end it

This sounds more like an “arrangement” than a fantastic relationship based on love and laughter which in my opinion is what matters. But people get together for all sorts of different reasons and if you are both content with a serious relationship based on what sounds like the desire to settle down and have kids and have somebody to talk to, then I’m sure it’s fine ... but personally I wouldn’t undersell myself like that. All sounds a bit serious and intense and boring to me

Boarding school, you say. I used to go out with someone from boarding school who also did not have long term relationships despite being good on paper. Similar issues.

I walked out after a year and felt almost instantly felt relieved and never gave him another thought. Don't waste any more time on this non-starter.

Oh and also the thing I love most about my boyfriend is the fact that I am so comfortable around him, that the first time we met it felt like I’d known him for years, and I can be 100% myself with him

Op
Your list of bad things are not your gut. Those are actual bright red flags waving away. He wants to settle down with you so you can be his cash cow. He may say he is so successful, but he’s not sharing any of the joint expenses.

Plus he prioritised settling the money on the one time he paid so he clearly understands splitting costs but has actively been choosing not to and letting OP pay more - that IS mean

Oh OP, I haven't read everything, just your posts but honestly - he doesn't make you laugh and the sex is average? You don't feel relaxed and comfortable with him. And on top of that, he's oblivious to the financial implications for you dating him, appears to be a bit stingy and actively puts you in situations that you've said you don't want?

No no no. Run away. He may well be a nice guy, but he's not the guy for you.

At 36 you still have time. And if you decide to go it alone on the kids front, you can do that too.

I think because you want to find someone to have children with you are checking things off your 'external' list; has money / friends and family / says he wants kids and settle down - which is totally understandable. However, your internal checklist - at this stage - should be; love hanging out with him, makes me laugh, feel comfortable, great sex (lots of it). Maybe that's just me, but that's what I think a relationship with potential feels like early days, and I have been round the block a few times. I can see why you are confused, but I think the others here (and your therapist) are right - your gut instinct is right. PS. My bloke is a tightwad and it is a total pain in the arse.

Two things stand out to me - The uncomfortableness and the money

Me too. Unless you have this feeling about most of your BFs I would take as a red flag with this one and move on.

The reason he has all these investments and never has to work again is that he's a tight git. Anyone generous of spirit, as well as financially, would be unhappy at seeing you out of pocket.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I don't believe this man is what he pretends to be.
There seems to be a mismatch between the person he claims to be, and the way he acts.
I think your gut feeling picked that up.
Sounds like he would either bring an awful lot of unresolved emotional angst in the relationship, and/or be abusive/manipulative.
Run. Pick someone who makes you feel safe and comfortable. Never have kids with someone who makes you feel uneasy.

Perhaps this is the elephant in the room, but do you find him sexually attractive at all? Or was it a case of, time's ticking, he's nice, successful, wants to settle, perhaps that side of things will grow - and it hasn't?
I think you know deep down what to do.

With my best friends I laugh a lot. I think I want that in a relationship too

Therapy can be amazing but it can also lead to overthinking things, trying to deeply analyse each person, and forgetting about the simple stuff.

After my last breakup I wrote a list of what qualities I absolutely wanted in a partner. Simple stuff, like makes me laugh. Emotionally available. At least some shared interests.

It's been invaluable in helping me keep my head straight in dating. In your 30s it's so tempting to convince yourself someone's right for you, just cos you're desperate to settle down. Or conversely, to aim for unrealistic perfection, falling for the illusion that there's always someone better on the next swipe. How do you settle down with "settling"?

I recommend really taking the time to think through what you want, what will make you happy and what things actually don't matter.

He said the other day that his dad had some sort of motto like 'anything is fine as long as you don't get caught'

Jesus, with everything else, he seems to have the makings of a sociopath.

has joked a couple of times about me coming from the 'gutter'

Fucking hell, OP - he's a nasty arsehole. I'm glad you pulled him up on that but that would be the end for me.