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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not trust my gut on man I'm dating?

605 replies

StartingAgain33 · 22/07/2020 14:56

I've been dating someone for three months. He's thoughtful, intelligent, successful, wants the same things in life as me and has made it clear that he sees a future with me (as much as someone can in such a short space of time). He also has literally built my dream life and is inviting me to be a part of it. But my gut keeps telling me to run away, and my therapist says that one of my key challenges is learning to tune into and act on my gut. I'm obsessing and would love your thoughts.

I worry I'm focusing on the negatives too much. I'm about to be 36, keen to have children and tired of being in a dating pool with guys that either don't have their shit together and so by default aren't ready for kids, or who are emotionally avoidant and not willing to put their cards on the table. This guy is neither of those things, and is up for doing the work of a real relationship. So I worry this is just my commitment issues - and potentially anxiety at having met someone so amazing - coming to the fore. What would you think?

Good things:

  • He is open about wanting to settle down, feeling ready for children (a priority for me), about having done the necessary work to get to this point with a therapist (he went to boarding school from a young age and was very starved of love - so had a very avoidant dating pattern). He had one 18 month relationship which ended last year which he said went a long way to healing some of his commitment issues. However, he never loved her and they broke it off as they both felt (I think it was more that he felt) that what they had wasn't 'enough'. This was after they had moved in together to test the relationship (I kind of think you should know if you love someone before making that move, and wonder how much anxiety she was hiding?)
  • He is very successful and leads a really great life. He's open and generous with this life - introducing me to friends and family, making fun trips happen all the time
  • His future vision is the same as mine to an uncanny degree
  • He's not afraid to challenge me and be honest about things, something which I find difficult (I have an anxious attachment pattern)
  • Seems to have a realistic view of what to expect from relationships
  • He's very good at going for what he wants and making things happen, which I find attractive
  • Has great, very close long-term friendships - shows he is capable of longer term intimacy
  • Is very up for 'doing the work' in a relationship
  • Is kind when I open up to him about difficulties, and makes an effort to be there for me
  • Is very consistent with communication, very much leading on this aspect of our relationship

Bad things:

  • He has a very avoidant past (41 years old, has had one relationship in the past 20 or so years and many flings), and I think may have difficulty in general connecting to people. Even though I know this, I keep blame myself for what I feel is a lack of connection in our interactions (I'm not sure he feels this too, although I'm thinking about asking him as it's driving me crazy - like an elephant in the room)
  • I just have a terrible gut feeling a lot of the time. When I'm with him, there's a sort of stilted atmosphere (I feel) and I don't feel able to relax. We hardly laugh. He's quiet quite a lot. He's been honest that he has abandonment issues and that he is hypervigilant to signs of rejection, which makes him quiet, so I've tried to have patience with it but I also feel hypervigilant around him. I've tried to spend lots of time with him to get over this and it's still there most of the time
  • Talks about relationships as 'work' a lot - feels a little joyless
  • Despite talking quite a lot about money / having lots of investments and also enough savings to never have to work again, he has let me somehow do all of the grocery shopping for every visit we've had. Majority of these have been me going to his city, which is nicer to hang out in as it's close to the countryside, so I'm spending money on train tickets AND about £80 at least every single time. This is really stacking up. In comparison, he knows that at 35 I'm still saving for a housing deposit and am going through an expensive egg freezing process. He is extremely frugal in general. The one time he paid of out food on a visit (because I lost my bank card) he asked me to settle up with him afterwards. He probably doesn't realise how much I've spent, as I've not communicated this and frankly find it awkward and quite rude that he wouldn't enquire himself or just say 'I'll pay for groceries next time'. Of all the things, strangely, this one makes me most angry and uncomfortable. I guess because we're from very different social classes and I would never want to be seen as a gold digger (he knows this, we've spoken about the fact that I've always dated people from a 'higher' class than me and that I've always gone at least halves or paid for more because I don't want to be seen as with them for their money)
  • I find our conversation often turns to serious subjects - trauma, how messed up someone is, work stuff - and there is little lightness. He is a thoughtful and quite serious character, I think, but I also worry this is just a chemistry thing and he'd be better with someone else (which then makes me want to fix it)
  • Because he's very open about wanting to settle down, it can sometimes make me feel like he is being spurred by that rather than wanting to be with ME. This could be my paranoia. But he doesn't often express how he actually feels about me, or why. He expresses his affection, I guess, through wanting to spend lots of time together, but even this feels a little intense / out of kilter with our level of emotional intimacy. Lockdown and living in different cities doesn't help - our dates are several days long, which I think I find a bit much
  • He's commented a few times about how I have a higher sex drive than him / enjoy it more. This makes me feel self conscious about asking for sex. When I did the one time, last week, he was too tired. We didn't have enough physical closeness in my four day visit for me to feel particularly cared for or happy. In general I find him just quite distant. Sex feels a little transactional - like he'll do the minimum to make me orgasm, then he's like 'job done' and then gets his and it's over. There isn't enough kissing or general sensuality for me. I don't feel very connected with him
  • I said I was uncomfy meeting his parents on our third ever date (it was a week long, and we'd been talking on zoom for a month before meeting, plus we actually know eachother from 13 years ago in a work context, but still). He said that was fine and they weren't coming, then the day before told me they actually were and I could 'hide in the house as they'd be in the garden and he'd just say I had lots of work to do' if I wanted. I felt intensely uncomfy with this setup so just met them anyway, but felt very awkward. He hadn't seen them all lockdown, and apparently it was just circumstantial that they visited that day, but I felt a little blindsided. I also met his sister and niece on the day, had been living with his other sister for a week and had spent the day with his best friends that week also. It all felt a little much

So - am I looking a gifthorse in the mouth? My anxiety levels are through the roof on this. For some reason I feel like I need to end it NOW even though I know there's loads of great things going for this guy. Any idea what might be going on?

OP posts:
AnyOldMorricone · 23/07/2020 12:25

he also does say things like 'isn't it interesting that I grew up with all this privelage etc and have always saved money and been frugal and other (aka me) haven't.

Massive eye roll. I think you pinpointed it perfectly OP – despite being very successful in your own right he's constantly in details calculated to make you feel on the back foot.

He honestly sounds repulsive and at the very least boring as fuck.

SissySpacekAteMyHamster · 23/07/2020 12:33

The lack of laughter would end it for me.

Does he bring you joy? No? Bin him.

TorchesTorches · 23/07/2020 12:34

I had a couple of parallels here. I am glad that you have decided to split; I an many many people on the thread recognise that he isn't the one for you

My parallels were ignoring my gut. I did this regarding a job as I so wanted it to work it and thought this was my only chance. My gut was SREAMING at me not to take it. But I did. My gut was SCREAMING at me after my first day not to go back. But I did. It has taken a huge toll on my mental health and my body knows it (and knew it, but I didn't listen.)

Second parallel was about you travelling to him and paying for groceries at his house. I did that too. He was frugal. I sorry of blocked it out, he was successful, had a good job (earned more than me) etc etc. I didn't want to seem grasping, yet ended up doing the vast majority if travel and posting for it too. Then one day, on a rare visit to my lovely home town, and after me getting groceries in in advance and him having a massive full English breakfast from my fridge contents, we got a taxi into town. By some complication, he had to pay it. Immediately afterwards, he asked for half back, and something in me shifted and went mad and ranged about groceries and breakfast. He ended up begging me to take a fiver from him, but he had shown his colours. I still stayed with him. He moved abroad and phoned me every day to talk about how bored he was and how he missed me. I tried to be supportive but hated these joyless chats as they were so draining. It was like I was his therapy. Then he got his (large) phone bill and suggested I pay half . I suggested that we just don't speak on the phone but leave it till we're saw each other in person. He hated that and still continued to call, but then moaned about how much it cost him . It was so bloody joyless for me. The relief when we split up! Amazing!

Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant!

Dozer · 23/07/2020 12:35

Perhaps, just for yourself, tot up how much this short relationship has cost you financially! Given that you have a financial / housing target it’s important not to waste cash on dating losers like this bloke!

Chuly · 23/07/2020 12:38

He could have the intentions of Mother Theresa, the money of Rothschild and a dick studded with diamonds but

We hardly laugh

He isn't the one.

vikingwife · 23/07/2020 12:46

@Chuly a diamond studded penis would arguably feel rather uncomfortable. I would prefer it to be solid gold.

JinglingHellsBells · 23/07/2020 12:55

@StartingAgain33 Okay- apologies I assumed this was within a lockdown timescale.

I can't see he has any redeeming features at all.

And hopefully now you can see the same.

He has money and a penis.

He's not exactly generous with either.

He has no sense of humour.

Next!

(In future don't stay with an arsehole for several months when you are ignoring the obvious. It wasn't your gut talking it was your sensible head. Your gut was saying he has a cock and money, and an enviable moneyed lifestyle which would be nice thanks for making babies.)

Ernieshere · 23/07/2020 13:02

Dont feel stupid, feel bloody proud, you sussed him out Wine

ForeverRedSkinhead · 23/07/2020 13:13

Good luck with everything op , you've absolutely made the right decision here.

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 13:16

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@StartingAgain33 Okay- apologies I assumed this was within a lockdown timescale.

I can't see he has any redeeming features at all.

And hopefully now you can see the same.

He has money and a penis.

He's not exactly generous with either.

He has no sense of humour.

Next!

(In future don't stay with an arsehole for several months when you are ignoring the obvious. It wasn't your gut talking it was your sensible head. Your gut was saying he has a cock and money, and an enviable moneyed lifestyle which would be nice thanks for making babies.)[/quote]
No worries, I just didn't want to go into details as I'm tired from no sleep and overthinking this already and already been doing a lot of explaining that I don't think he's a conman etc and why, all the inevitable back and forth as people understandably assume certain things from your post so you have to clarify etc - I think people get really polarised and demonise people etc when you post things on here, and I really want to be fair and balanced here.

Lol, 'he has money and a penis'.

I promise he does have many redeeming qualities. He's handsome, very smart and I honestly believe he wants to be kind and fair but just has something a bit wrong with him. He framed his relationship stuff as him being frightened of rejection, so rejecting other people first, but then he said he had realised he really wanted a partner and his last relationship had helped him get over those hurdles.

It's odd as all of this family and friends are SO nice and normal etc, and he has unusually close friendships with a couple of families as well as a huge network of friends in general (far more than I have). He's even godfather to five children etc (although he did point out I only am godmother to one and it 'doesn't count because she's my neice' - again jokily said, because we joke about everything being a competition, but also making me feel a bit shit in the process). It just seems so strange that so many people could vouch for him and then he's like this.

OP posts:
MRex · 23/07/2020 13:17

Can I just check you've actually broken up with Stingy Weirdo please?

Next time don't waste months on someone who makes you feel uncomfortable. Love doesn't feel uncomfortable, you don't need to think what to say to the person you can live with forever, and you don't want children with a con artist.

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 13:19

@AnyOldMorricone

Also @anyoldmorricone this is so true:

who agrees as they don’t want to show themselves up as unsophisticated, penny-pinching, needing to worry about money, etc.

Ugh. Do you think he does this on purpose or it's all subconscious?

I'm starting to hate this man. He's maybe the worst person I've dated.

I've noticed he's an extremely good fundraiser - has gotten millions from business. It's basically manipulation and telling people what they want to hear. Have heard him planning conversations with his business partner and the whole thing made me feel a bit cringey inside.

To be honest OP (and I'm aware this is just armchair diagnosis from afar so can only be speculative) he sounds extremely calculating and manipulative to me.

If someone is intentionally leading a parasitic lifestyle they will be convincing and they will have pre-empted your thought process. He sounds like he is dropping very calculated bits of information.

I'll bet his ex wasn't earning 3k a day, but him dropping that detail does hint again at a glamorous, high-flying set. He's also subtly creating a comparison with you – making you aware that you don't earn 3k a day (who was she, Jeff Bezos?) and perhaps making you feel reluctant to speak up about the freeloading (because that would expose you as unsuccessful and workaday).

Do you get a strange emptiness from him?
Does it seem like he inhabits a different world?
Does it ever seem like he changes persona?
Does he have an elaborate answer for everything?
Do you feel that time spent with him is weirdly jarring or disconnected from your usual life?

@AnyOldMorricone Do you get a strange emptiness from him? - erm, yes Does it seem like he inhabits a different world? - maybe? in what way? certainly feels like we can't really connect Does it ever seem like he changes persona? - not really, he's quite consistent. he certainly knows how to talk the talk to get what he wants with investors etc, but I think that's quite normal Does he have an elaborate answer for everything? - not really Do you feel that time spent with him is weirdly jarring or disconnected from your usual life? - yes, I think so, but lockdown has made things just feel really odd anyway. a long time not seeing eachother, then seeing eachother for long stints and trapped in the house etc, so I've put it down to that really
OP posts:
MRex · 23/07/2020 13:20

By the way, just because he has had businesses does not mean he is not a conman, simply a successful one. Many things you have described raise alerts with a large number of us, his behaviour is not that of a kind man who actually has money.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 23/07/2020 13:21

Just listen to yourself not US !
If it’s not right for you that’s completely fine
I get why you want a sense check however

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 13:21

@MRex

Can I just check you've actually broken up with Stingy Weirdo please?

Next time don't waste months on someone who makes you feel uncomfortable. Love doesn't feel uncomfortable, you don't need to think what to say to the person you can live with forever, and you don't want children with a con artist.

@MRex Going to do later. Just wanted to get back my money first! Didn't trust he'd do it if I ended it first. He gave me £250 this morning.

I will admit I do feel a bit reluctant. I guess I feel sorry for him and really wanted this to work, as did he. I don't think he's all bad at all, and it's so easy for people to pile in and say things like he's a conman which I categorically know he isn't etc. that I worry it's all a bit unbalanced.

I think the general consensus though that I'm not gettng joy from this is right. I don't know why I stay for longer than I should in these situations - it's happened a lot of times before. But this maybe the biggest arsehole I've been out with? Not sure. There have been a few flavours.

OP posts:
Chanjer · 23/07/2020 13:24

Got to the settling up after the meal one time

Avoid avoid avoid

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 13:25

But I think I also stayed with him for way longer because we hadn't spent that much time together before lockdown - not long enough to see these patterns - and then he's been very consistent with calls in between at what has been a really isolated time for me - living alone in a flat etc. I wanted to see if the chemistry thing would be different when we saw eachother again. But the uneasiness was still there and if anything had gotten worse by the time I'd spent several days there.

OP posts:
Thinkingg · 23/07/2020 13:27

he ate half of mine, even though I said I'd like it for the train journey home. He said he needed it more! When his journey back was shorter than mine!

Wow he sounds great! Wink

summerfish · 23/07/2020 13:28

I want to know if it's the same creepy Bristolian weirdo a PP mentioned! Is he doing the Avon rounds?

vikingwife · 23/07/2020 13:30

This bloke is a waste of your fertility, he is never going to settle down with you. He may objectively want commitment & a family but his anxieties will not allow this relationship to progress to this stage. He is literally telling you that when things get to serious his instinct is to panic & want to escape.

It does feel weird when you meet someone good on paper who you wish you did like, but the chemistry isn’t there. I dare say if you found someone who wasn’t in his “class” who had a better personality you would instinctively gravitate towards them.

He doesn’t make you laugh, this relationship sounds like a lot of work & mentally draining, talking about issues all the time. For someone who really wants a family, you need to be told this man is a waste of your childbearing years.

I am childfree and can see how much of a time waster he is & I don’t even have a biological clock ticking

vikingwife · 23/07/2020 13:39

He even told you he isn’t the type to just fall in love. He isn’t going to fall in love with you & is trying on relationships like a pair of shoes in a store. He will walk around & they feel ok, but in the back of his mind he is stressing if this pair is the right decision or what other pair of shoes out there may look or suit him better.

He doesn’t even know what the right pair of shoes even feels like, he has tried so many on he has confused himself. The longest he has kept a single pair was 18 months, which is relatively not long to own one pair of shoes.

He has major issues & Someone who knows what they want out of life wouldn’t waste time on him. All the good jobs & money & privilege won’t make him the right person for you. I daresay his family would not approve of him being with you due to the issues with class you mentioned (they only like girls from Oxbridge etc) so you are throwing good money after bad to continue this. Every day with him is a day wasted you could be working towards what You want from life.

You mention he didn’t want much sex & he orchestrated a meeting with his parents on what was essentially your 3rd date - it sounds like he was happy to have you around to show family he does indeed have a woman, as people on his side are starting to wonder...

You’re both trying to make something work rather than it naturally just working because you click.

AnyOldMorricone · 23/07/2020 13:40

it's so easy for people to pile in and say things like he's a conman

OP we can only go on the details you give us – some of the things you mention are classic conman tactics, but of course we don't know him so we can't say for certain. Whatever his motivation, it sounds like he certainly does have a knack for manipulating relationships to his advantage. Only you can decide if you want to pursue a relationship with him further.

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 13:43

@vikingwife

He even told you he isn’t the type to just fall in love. He isn’t going to fall in love with you & is trying on relationships like a pair of shoes in a store. He will walk around & they feel ok, but in the back of his mind he is stressing if this pair is the right decision or what other pair of shoes out there may look or suit him better.

He doesn’t even know what the right pair of shoes even feels like, he has tried so many on he has confused himself. The longest he has kept a single pair was 18 months, which is relatively not long to own one pair of shoes.

He has major issues & Someone who knows what they want out of life wouldn’t waste time on him. All the good jobs & money & privilege won’t make him the right person for you. I daresay his family would not approve of him being with you due to the issues with class you mentioned (they only like girls from Oxbridge etc) so you are throwing good money after bad to continue this. Every day with him is a day wasted you could be working towards what You want from life.

You mention he didn’t want much sex & he orchestrated a meeting with his parents on what was essentially your 3rd date - it sounds like he was happy to have you around to show family he does indeed have a woman, as people on his side are starting to wonder...

You’re both trying to make something work rather than it naturally just working because you click.

Yes, I agree, he even said that his radar is off and he knows that he can't trust his gut which tells him to run away - he needs to just decide to commit. To be fair I have similar issues and have had my fair few relationships, although I have been in love and I've had a couple of multiyear ones so not that bad.

I did actually go to Oxbridge so officially fit the criteria, but as I haven't grown up in the same posh schools etc there will always be a big mismatch between me and him which in the right relationship would be fine I guess.

OP posts:
StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 13:45

@AnyOldMorricone

it's so easy for people to pile in and say things like he's a conman

OP we can only go on the details you give us – some of the things you mention are classic conman tactics, but of course we don't know him so we can't say for certain. Whatever his motivation, it sounds like he certainly does have a knack for manipulating relationships to his advantage. Only you can decide if you want to pursue a relationship with him further.

Agreed on both points

Really appreciate people giving so much time to this. I do find it hard to trust my gut, and have a habit of blocking out the bad in people, so it's been so useful to hear peoples' opinions.

OP posts:
StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 13:49

@TorchesTorches

I had a couple of parallels here. I am glad that you have decided to split; I an many many people on the thread recognise that he isn't the one for you

My parallels were ignoring my gut. I did this regarding a job as I so wanted it to work it and thought this was my only chance. My gut was SREAMING at me not to take it. But I did. My gut was SCREAMING at me after my first day not to go back. But I did. It has taken a huge toll on my mental health and my body knows it (and knew it, but I didn't listen.)

Second parallel was about you travelling to him and paying for groceries at his house. I did that too. He was frugal. I sorry of blocked it out, he was successful, had a good job (earned more than me) etc etc. I didn't want to seem grasping, yet ended up doing the vast majority if travel and posting for it too. Then one day, on a rare visit to my lovely home town, and after me getting groceries in in advance and him having a massive full English breakfast from my fridge contents, we got a taxi into town. By some complication, he had to pay it. Immediately afterwards, he asked for half back, and something in me shifted and went mad and ranged about groceries and breakfast. He ended up begging me to take a fiver from him, but he had shown his colours. I still stayed with him. He moved abroad and phoned me every day to talk about how bored he was and how he missed me. I tried to be supportive but hated these joyless chats as they were so draining. It was like I was his therapy. Then he got his (large) phone bill and suggested I pay half . I suggested that we just don't speak on the phone but leave it till we're saw each other in person. He hated that and still continued to call, but then moaned about how much it cost him . It was so bloody joyless for me. The relief when we split up! Amazing!

Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant!

God yeah, very similar! HOW do these people not get how selfish and weird this behaviour is? I just can't relate - which is why I let it happen. I assume there must be a mistake or something. Difficult to not get angry.
OP posts:
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