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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not trust my gut on man I'm dating?

605 replies

StartingAgain33 · 22/07/2020 14:56

I've been dating someone for three months. He's thoughtful, intelligent, successful, wants the same things in life as me and has made it clear that he sees a future with me (as much as someone can in such a short space of time). He also has literally built my dream life and is inviting me to be a part of it. But my gut keeps telling me to run away, and my therapist says that one of my key challenges is learning to tune into and act on my gut. I'm obsessing and would love your thoughts.

I worry I'm focusing on the negatives too much. I'm about to be 36, keen to have children and tired of being in a dating pool with guys that either don't have their shit together and so by default aren't ready for kids, or who are emotionally avoidant and not willing to put their cards on the table. This guy is neither of those things, and is up for doing the work of a real relationship. So I worry this is just my commitment issues - and potentially anxiety at having met someone so amazing - coming to the fore. What would you think?

Good things:

  • He is open about wanting to settle down, feeling ready for children (a priority for me), about having done the necessary work to get to this point with a therapist (he went to boarding school from a young age and was very starved of love - so had a very avoidant dating pattern). He had one 18 month relationship which ended last year which he said went a long way to healing some of his commitment issues. However, he never loved her and they broke it off as they both felt (I think it was more that he felt) that what they had wasn't 'enough'. This was after they had moved in together to test the relationship (I kind of think you should know if you love someone before making that move, and wonder how much anxiety she was hiding?)
  • He is very successful and leads a really great life. He's open and generous with this life - introducing me to friends and family, making fun trips happen all the time
  • His future vision is the same as mine to an uncanny degree
  • He's not afraid to challenge me and be honest about things, something which I find difficult (I have an anxious attachment pattern)
  • Seems to have a realistic view of what to expect from relationships
  • He's very good at going for what he wants and making things happen, which I find attractive
  • Has great, very close long-term friendships - shows he is capable of longer term intimacy
  • Is very up for 'doing the work' in a relationship
  • Is kind when I open up to him about difficulties, and makes an effort to be there for me
  • Is very consistent with communication, very much leading on this aspect of our relationship

Bad things:

  • He has a very avoidant past (41 years old, has had one relationship in the past 20 or so years and many flings), and I think may have difficulty in general connecting to people. Even though I know this, I keep blame myself for what I feel is a lack of connection in our interactions (I'm not sure he feels this too, although I'm thinking about asking him as it's driving me crazy - like an elephant in the room)
  • I just have a terrible gut feeling a lot of the time. When I'm with him, there's a sort of stilted atmosphere (I feel) and I don't feel able to relax. We hardly laugh. He's quiet quite a lot. He's been honest that he has abandonment issues and that he is hypervigilant to signs of rejection, which makes him quiet, so I've tried to have patience with it but I also feel hypervigilant around him. I've tried to spend lots of time with him to get over this and it's still there most of the time
  • Talks about relationships as 'work' a lot - feels a little joyless
  • Despite talking quite a lot about money / having lots of investments and also enough savings to never have to work again, he has let me somehow do all of the grocery shopping for every visit we've had. Majority of these have been me going to his city, which is nicer to hang out in as it's close to the countryside, so I'm spending money on train tickets AND about £80 at least every single time. This is really stacking up. In comparison, he knows that at 35 I'm still saving for a housing deposit and am going through an expensive egg freezing process. He is extremely frugal in general. The one time he paid of out food on a visit (because I lost my bank card) he asked me to settle up with him afterwards. He probably doesn't realise how much I've spent, as I've not communicated this and frankly find it awkward and quite rude that he wouldn't enquire himself or just say 'I'll pay for groceries next time'. Of all the things, strangely, this one makes me most angry and uncomfortable. I guess because we're from very different social classes and I would never want to be seen as a gold digger (he knows this, we've spoken about the fact that I've always dated people from a 'higher' class than me and that I've always gone at least halves or paid for more because I don't want to be seen as with them for their money)
  • I find our conversation often turns to serious subjects - trauma, how messed up someone is, work stuff - and there is little lightness. He is a thoughtful and quite serious character, I think, but I also worry this is just a chemistry thing and he'd be better with someone else (which then makes me want to fix it)
  • Because he's very open about wanting to settle down, it can sometimes make me feel like he is being spurred by that rather than wanting to be with ME. This could be my paranoia. But he doesn't often express how he actually feels about me, or why. He expresses his affection, I guess, through wanting to spend lots of time together, but even this feels a little intense / out of kilter with our level of emotional intimacy. Lockdown and living in different cities doesn't help - our dates are several days long, which I think I find a bit much
  • He's commented a few times about how I have a higher sex drive than him / enjoy it more. This makes me feel self conscious about asking for sex. When I did the one time, last week, he was too tired. We didn't have enough physical closeness in my four day visit for me to feel particularly cared for or happy. In general I find him just quite distant. Sex feels a little transactional - like he'll do the minimum to make me orgasm, then he's like 'job done' and then gets his and it's over. There isn't enough kissing or general sensuality for me. I don't feel very connected with him
  • I said I was uncomfy meeting his parents on our third ever date (it was a week long, and we'd been talking on zoom for a month before meeting, plus we actually know eachother from 13 years ago in a work context, but still). He said that was fine and they weren't coming, then the day before told me they actually were and I could 'hide in the house as they'd be in the garden and he'd just say I had lots of work to do' if I wanted. I felt intensely uncomfy with this setup so just met them anyway, but felt very awkward. He hadn't seen them all lockdown, and apparently it was just circumstantial that they visited that day, but I felt a little blindsided. I also met his sister and niece on the day, had been living with his other sister for a week and had spent the day with his best friends that week also. It all felt a little much

So - am I looking a gifthorse in the mouth? My anxiety levels are through the roof on this. For some reason I feel like I need to end it NOW even though I know there's loads of great things going for this guy. Any idea what might be going on?

OP posts:
JinglingHellsBells · 23/07/2020 11:26

Have you done due diligence on him?

Looked him up on social media?

Had a Google?

Tried Companies House?

I think everything (almost) he has told you is bollocks - the money bit.

What did he used to do which has enabled him to bank hundreds of thousands and live off the income?

And what work does he do when he 'feels like it'?- what's his career path?

I expect you don't know.

He's a serial liar and probably a narc too.

I expect the reason he didn't want you to meet the parents was he was afraid he would be outed by some of their comments.

And in future- stick to lockdown rules. It would have prevented all of this!

SleepingStandingUp · 23/07/2020 11:34

THIS IS THE HONEYMOON PHASE AND THE BEST IT WILL BE

Enough said. End it op

AwkwardMoment2020 · 23/07/2020 11:36

His initials aren’t JC are they?

I swear I know this man and had a damn lucky escape from him. If it’s the same man run for the bloody hills.

KatherineParr4 · 23/07/2020 11:51

This is all quite chilling to be honest.

AnyOldMorricone · 23/07/2020 11:52

Also @anyoldmorricone this is so true:

who agrees as they don’t want to show themselves up as unsophisticated, penny-pinching, needing to worry about money, etc.

Ugh. Do you think he does this on purpose or it's all subconscious?

I'm starting to hate this man. He's maybe the worst person I've dated.

I've noticed he's an extremely good fundraiser - has gotten millions from business. It's basically manipulation and telling people what they want to hear. Have heard him planning conversations with his business partner and the whole thing made me feel a bit cringey inside.

To be honest OP (and I'm aware this is just armchair diagnosis from afar so can only be speculative) he sounds extremely calculating and manipulative to me.

If someone is intentionally leading a parasitic lifestyle they will be convincing and they will have pre-empted your thought process. He sounds like he is dropping very calculated bits of information.

I'll bet his ex wasn't earning 3k a day, but him dropping that detail does hint again at a glamorous, high-flying set. He's also subtly creating a comparison with you – making you aware that you don't earn 3k a day (who was she, Jeff Bezos?) and perhaps making you feel reluctant to speak up about the freeloading (because that would expose you as unsuccessful and workaday).

Do you get a strange emptiness from him?
Does it seem like he inhabits a different world?
Does it ever seem like he changes persona?
Does he have an elaborate answer for everything?
Do you feel that time spent with him is weirdly jarring or disconnected from your usual life?

AnyOldMorricone · 23/07/2020 11:54

He sounds very much like certain people I've known, and I'd have a punt on him having anti-social personality disorder or something similar.

Ernieshere · 23/07/2020 12:00

Thank god you posted on here OP, the problem is (& not yours) is that he will soon be on to the next one.

Have you looked on Tinder & POF to see if he is active on there ?

LonginesPrime · 23/07/2020 12:00

His ex earned £3k a day?

Exes of manipulative men always have the exact qualities the current GF is insecure about.

"My ex went to the gym daily and always wore makeup, but I'm glad you're not so bothered about appearance"

"My ex was really jealous and controlling - it's so great you're so cool and trusting"

"My ex was blonde as I always go for blondes, so it's interesting that I'm attracted to you being a brunette. I'll just leave this peroxide by the sink.."

"The only thing I miss about my ex is that she let me do x in the bedroom"

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 12:02

I sent him a text saying before we discussed the relationship again I wanted us to settle up financially so it felt like we were on an even playing field. He said he didn't know i'd spent that much, that it wasn't characteristic and that I shouldnt have let this go on for so long. He also transferred me £250 which seems more than fair. We ended up having a text bicker as I said he'd walked me to the supermarket the first time and also texted me things to buy the second time so it seems odd he didn't know I was spending money. And also said I wouldn't have minded so much if he hadn't mentioned 'settling up' the moment he was spending money on us - even down to some cornish bloody pasties. He says he spent £200 that week - I honestly don't see how - but I'm not going to get into more details with him.

I now feel petty and annoyed we even got down to this but I just needed to do it as I felt cheated. He says it's 'weird I stored all this up'. I said I didn't mention as I thought it would naturally even out but it seems it's a pattern. I feel a bit stupid.

OP posts:
StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 12:05

Also, thanks to all the people saying he's lying about his wealth and his ex's earning etc. I don't really have the energy to go into the details, but I promise he isn't lying about either of these things. I actually worked in one of his businesses over a decade ago and know what kind of money he was making there, plus various other verifiable factors. He's just very into frugality - there's an entire 'early retirement' movement into the internet that he got into - and tbh I quite like the idea myself and have adopted some of the principles. But I think he just takes it a little too far. I don't think he's been lying to reel me in. I know he has properties he rents out on airbnb etc, I've seen the bookings, bla bla bla. I've seen his winning pitch video which he raised millions off the back of for his startup. etc. Various other things. Please let's not go down that route.

OP posts:
loobyloo1234 · 23/07/2020 12:05

He actually does @cheesemongery. Have private messaged you.

Is it the same person? If so, you've probably had a lucky escape by the sound of things OP?

FizzyGreenWater · 23/07/2020 12:06

Wow, really glad you have ended it.

He's bad news, put simply.

Everything is off about this guy but I agree that the main red flag is money. He's a moocher. And full of shit, with the classic 'Oh I'm a bit odd and perhaps lonely and a bit hard to work out - I clearly don't know the rules so it's not my fault.'

He's clearly got you fully on the back foot and you give several examples of him manuipulating you.

But at base, he's a liar and a taker. It's spot on that the money thing is what made you feel most 'off' - because it's the ONE thing where he's actually properly showing his colours. Because even from early on he really really doesn't want to shell out.

Just the simple 'he apologised and said he was normally considered generous' is SO telling. Because it's clearly a bare faced lie, isn't it? NOBODY who is 'considered generous' would have even THOUGHT of asking you for 'your share' of a grocery shop. Even ordinary friends rarely do that unless it's LOADS of cash - the expectation is that it'll even out next time. As for relationships, and one where you've already shelled out to travel etc... and it happened EVERY time... wow.

Even a fairly non-generous person in that scenario might find themsevles about to ask for half the cost then think 'Oh hang on. She's bought the last five lots of groceries, so it really is my turn.'

'Known to be generous' -?

HAHAHAHAHA.

So there you go, one very clear manipulative bullshit sentence that in no way reflects what you've seen with your own eyes.

He's a user, every woman works him out eventually, to a greater or lesser loss. Well done, block him.

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 12:07

Oh, and it's worth saying I actually earn quite a bit myself - nothing like he has done, and like I say I'm still saving for my first flat deposit at 36 - but I live in London and am very aware that compared to most people across the country I'm not doing badly at all - probably top 5%. It's just difficult to get on the ladder here and I didn't start earning this much till 3 years ago. I also grew up with no financial literacy at all and it's taken me a long time to know how to save money etc. So I don't feel that insecure about this, and I'm not sure he's been deliberately playing on it.

OP posts:
FizzyGreenWater · 23/07/2020 12:08

Our cross posts here are telling!

Just to say, you can be well off and still be a complete sponging parasite.

Which he clearly is.

BLOCK!

AnyOldMorricone · 23/07/2020 12:09

He says it's 'weird I stored all this up'.

Oh tell him to fuck off.

You "shouldn't have let this go on for so long"?? Well he's not totally lacking self-awareness then is he.

Don't feel stupid, you've been perfectly fair and reasonable and he just doesn't like being pulled up on being a freeloading twat.

AnyOldMorricone · 23/07/2020 12:15

Oh, and it's worth saying I actually earn quite a bit myself - nothing like he has done, and like I say I'm still saving for my first flat deposit at 36 - but I live in London and am very aware that compared to most people across the country I'm not doing badly at all - probably top 5%. It's just difficult to get on the ladder here and I didn't start earning this much till 3 years ago. I also grew up with no financial literacy at all and it's taken me a long time to know how to save money etc. So I don't feel that insecure about this, and I'm not sure he's been deliberately playing on it.

Sorry, I hope my post didn't sound like it was implying you are unsuccessful or insecure about money and earnings – it's more just a universal tactic to create the vibe that quibbling over money will make you seem petty and unsophisticated, in a way that someone with unlimited resources (3k a day....) would not do.

FizzyGreenWater · 23/07/2020 12:16

'It's weird I stored all this up? Oh do fuck off with the making your behaviour my responsibility. Go find another one to mooch off.'

JinglingHellsBells · 23/07/2020 12:16

He's just very into frugality

Errr...no. He's just a very mean bugger.

His behaviour is not compatible with dating and finding a partner. he sounds totally selfish and up his own.

If he was so wonderful, he'd have been snapped up a long while ago.

He's got serious personality flaws.

OP I have every sympathy for your emotions, and support you ending it. However, I can't say I'm thrilled at how you broke all lockdown rules, making non-essential train journeys for 3 months, and sleeping over with this guy for days on end, when other women your age (also desperately watching their bio clocks) have been more responsible and put face to face meetings on hold.

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 12:17

@FizzyGreenWater

Wow, really glad you have ended it.

He's bad news, put simply.

Everything is off about this guy but I agree that the main red flag is money. He's a moocher. And full of shit, with the classic 'Oh I'm a bit odd and perhaps lonely and a bit hard to work out - I clearly don't know the rules so it's not my fault.'

He's clearly got you fully on the back foot and you give several examples of him manuipulating you.

But at base, he's a liar and a taker. It's spot on that the money thing is what made you feel most 'off' - because it's the ONE thing where he's actually properly showing his colours. Because even from early on he really really doesn't want to shell out.

Just the simple 'he apologised and said he was normally considered generous' is SO telling. Because it's clearly a bare faced lie, isn't it? NOBODY who is 'considered generous' would have even THOUGHT of asking you for 'your share' of a grocery shop. Even ordinary friends rarely do that unless it's LOADS of cash - the expectation is that it'll even out next time. As for relationships, and one where you've already shelled out to travel etc... and it happened EVERY time... wow.

Even a fairly non-generous person in that scenario might find themsevles about to ask for half the cost then think 'Oh hang on. She's bought the last five lots of groceries, so it really is my turn.'

'Known to be generous' -?

HAHAHAHAHA.

So there you go, one very clear manipulative bullshit sentence that in no way reflects what you've seen with your own eyes.

He's a user, every woman works him out eventually, to a greater or lesser loss. Well done, block him.

Yeah, I know. I think he asked for us to settle up perhaps as it was the first time we'd been to restaurants and pubs together - we went to three in 24 hours - whereas before we hadn't been able to because of lockdown so it was just groceries. So I guess he felt it was a lot of money to spend compared to usual, and you do usually split those things.

But yeah, our first round of drinks (which WAS extortionately expensive - £17 apparently for two pints) was a point of complaint for him. Would have been nice to just celebrate finally being able to go out together really, even if it was expensive.

I don't see how he spent £200. I was totting it up in my head as we went as I was embarrassed to lose my bank card and because he'd already mentioned settling it up after. Round of drinks - £17. Lunch - £40? Dinner - £30. Groceries - £15. Pasties - £10 (and he ate half of mine, even though I said I'd like it for the train journey home. He said he needed it more! When is journey back was shorter than mine!). I paid for our accomodation £44, so it wasn't entirely even, but yeah, to be asking to settle up when I'd paid £100 to get there for a 36 hour round trip (he was in Devon anyway, looking at a house he is buying) just seemed really cheeky.

OP posts:
StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 12:20

@AnyOldMorricone

Oh, and it's worth saying I actually earn quite a bit myself - nothing like he has done, and like I say I'm still saving for my first flat deposit at 36 - but I live in London and am very aware that compared to most people across the country I'm not doing badly at all - probably top 5%. It's just difficult to get on the ladder here and I didn't start earning this much till 3 years ago. I also grew up with no financial literacy at all and it's taken me a long time to know how to save money etc. So I don't feel that insecure about this, and I'm not sure he's been deliberately playing on it.

Sorry, I hope my post didn't sound like it was implying you are unsuccessful or insecure about money and earnings – it's more just a universal tactic to create the vibe that quibbling over money will make you seem petty and unsophisticated, in a way that someone with unlimited resources (3k a day....) would not do.

yes, it did certainly make feel like that actually. And you're right, him mentioning her paying for the rent etc did make me feel a bit uneasy, even if in general I feel quite proud of how much I've been able to earn. Over time I've noticed feeling more and more like I'm really badly off financially when I'm with him, even though I know I am lucky in many respects, which is not necessarily his fault - it's just more being surrounded by all that wealth etc - but he also does say things like 'isn't it interesting that I grew up with all this privelage etc and have always saved money and been frugal and other (aka me) haven't. I didn't have the energy to explain how this is a systemic issue - tied in with levels of personal aspiration, expectations, education, habits taught by parents - plus the fact he had those vital legs up in the journey and wealth is exponential.

So, yeah, I'm not insecure in general about it, but he has made me feel on the backfoot with it big time.

OP posts:
AnyOldMorricone · 23/07/2020 12:20

His ex may well have earned 3k a day (about £1m a year?) but the point is it's fishy he made a point of mentioning it.

vikingwife · 23/07/2020 12:21

So the bloke who has been using you as a quasi therapist about his issues since boarding school things it’s weird that you would let a thought be stored up?

Also if he was that rich & not a penny pincher, it’s doubtful he would have been able to even remember that he supposedly spent $200 when he came to visit you. So it seems he really is a tightarse.

Also telling you you’re “weird” when he is the one who has been spurting all his anxiety about how weird he acts in relationships shows he lacks self awareness or is just a little mean & wants a dig.

JinglingHellsBells · 23/07/2020 12:22

Yeah, I know. I think he asked for us to settle up perhaps as it was the first time we'd been to restaurants and pubs together - we went to three in 24 hours -

This must have been very recently after lockdown when you had already been seeing him at his home.

I see you are choosing to ignore the fact you did all these trips when you were not supposed to be.

StartingAgain33 · 23/07/2020 12:24

@JinglingHellsBells

He's just very into frugality

Errr...no. He's just a very mean bugger.

His behaviour is not compatible with dating and finding a partner. he sounds totally selfish and up his own.

If he was so wonderful, he'd have been snapped up a long while ago.

He's got serious personality flaws.

OP I have every sympathy for your emotions, and support you ending it. However, I can't say I'm thrilled at how you broke all lockdown rules, making non-essential train journeys for 3 months, and sleeping over with this guy for days on end, when other women your age (also desperately watching their bio clocks) have been more responsible and put face to face meetings on hold.

I haven't wanted to get into the details of when exactly I saw him etc, but I've slightly played with timelines here and rounded to three months for simplicity although it's longer in terms of how much we've been talking - we started seeing eachother before lockdown, then had a million zoom dates and calls in between, then when lockdown finished have seen eachother a lot, for 5 - 7 day stints. He did drive to London and back for the first one to avoid me getting the train, same for the second and I thought I was getting a lift back also but then his car needed to get into the garage and I needed to get back to London. I've only met his parents and friends in outdoor situations, when it was allowed etc.
OP posts:
LonginesPrime · 23/07/2020 12:25

I don't feel that insecure about this, and I'm not sure he's been deliberately playing on it

When I referred to being insecure about money, it was based on what you said in your OP about your having told him you're conscious of not wanting to seem like you're with him for his money and of paying your own way.

It's irrelevant whether he's lying/manipulating anyway, tbh - actions speak louder than words and the way he's treated you is appalling either way.