Grown men who can't drive

[madcatladyforever]

AIBU or what! Just had a row with my DS who is not talking to me because he can't drive at 40 years old. There is no good reason why not, he's done all the lessons just can't be bothered to take the test.
His wife ferries him about everywhere despite the fact she's in very poor health and shouldn't even be on the road in my opinion.
He wanted me to collect him for the weekend a 7 hour round trip and I said no, I have slipped discs and I'm on tramadol, I can't drive for 7 hours.
I don't see why we should be unpaid chauffeurs all the time and I'm not doing it any more.
Not being able to drive completely limits their lives, they can't live in a rural area which they want to do, he can only take a job there is public transport too and he can't drive to any big store out of town and pick up furniture or tools or whatever.
It is driving me mad and I said to his wife, stop ferrying him about, he needs to get his license. What happens if you have to go into hospital - who is going to drive you there and back.
Now he is furious with me for "interfering" but if your mother can't say it who can.
I get the test is scary but if we never did anything because we were nervous we'd never achieve anything in our lives.

I can't drive and i'm a grown woman. I don't need to "have a word with myself" at all 😂. It's my choice. I live in a (small) city with good connections and can pretty much walk everywhere. I don't cadge lifts on anyone - if DP and I are going out somewhere, obviously he drives us.

Even if you don't need to drive, it's good to have the skill. My BIL had a kidney failure 10 years ago, they both live in Madrid and DS didn't drive. He eventually got a transplant but for a few months he had to have dialysis 3 times a week. The hospital was 20 mins away by car but 1.5 hours by public transport due to bad combinations and when he couldn't drive himself he spent 3 hours of public transport on top of 5 hours dialysis or more than 5 hours in between journey and waiting time in hospital transport.

If you can afford to get a license, get it. You don't know what will happen in the future and the freedom of being able to move without depending on anyone or public transport, it's truly freeing.

YANBU he sounds lazy and entitled. It’s not great not being able to drive if you don’t live in a city, it makes me think he’s a bit lacking. But why make it your problem (and other people’s including his wife?!). A 7 hour round trip is excessive

I don't drive. No "good reason" other than the fact that I don't want to and I don't need to. I'd just get a cab in an emergency. I don't ask people for lifts though, I get around fine. It's nobody else's business.

I don’t know how people have coped in the pandemic without a car.

They've relied on people with cars!

A friend's husband did loads of lessons and then decided not to bother taking the test. So he drives if my friend is in the car but can't drive alone or on motorways. They have 2 kids and it's a pain in the arse for her.

So he keeps paying for a new provisional licence every few years, rather than paying for a test and a full one? That's so intelligent...

I learned to drive (I'm a man) when I was in my 40s. I grew up living in cities with good transport infrastructures so didn't need to. When I moved to the country - 90 miles to nearest city - I learned PDQ.

The dynamics of their relationship is not your business.

It is because they are constantly involving me in it, either her ringing me up saying she's sick of this situation and then him ringing up wanting me to drive 300 miles somewhere urgently and then getting the massive arse when I won't.
If they never discussed the issue with me it would be none of my business.

They've relied on people with cars

Oh fuck off.

We have walked and/or caught public transport.

@Badbadbunny I don't drive and I've not once relied on anyone to drive me anywhere during the pandemic.

@Alondra

*Why? I can't drive. I've never needed to - I live close to town and I get a train/other public transport if I need to go further. I don't ask anyone for lifts. What word do I need to have with myself?

(I will learn eventually before I have kids - but at the moment, who cares?)*

The thing is that the longer you drive the more difficult will be driving with confidence. It takes youth to have a healthy dose of "fearlessness" on the road .....the older you are, the more conservative and safety conscious you are. Whilst being safe is a good thing it's also a handicap - you are more scared of driving than when you are very young and you are less inclined to drive long distances or to places you don't know.

I learned to drive in my 40s as I always lived in a big city with great public transport and didn't need it. It wasn't until I moved to more rural area than it became a necessity. I passed on my first try....but even today, years later, I don't have the confidence to drive to unknown places many young people with less experience than me have.

If you have the money to learn, get your license and start driving. It's incredibly freeing having your own wheels to more around.

Funny you should say that in response to my post - it's actually the opposite (for me anyway). I had lessons when I was a teenager and my anxiety was just too much to continue. I am now 10 years older and feel much more ready, because my mental health is in a better place and I'm more resilient generally. :)

Ah, another MN non-driving thread...

I got my license fairly late (late 20s) and honestly, I don't think people who don't drive realise how restrictive it is until you try the other way. I would say similar things to what people have said on this thread - I'm happy on public transport, I don't ask for lifts and so on. But there are so many things I do now that would be so much more difficult without driving. When you don't drive, you're constrained in where you can choose to live. You're constrained in the job you can do, because many places of work aren't that accessible on public transport or involve going to other sites. Sure, you can live like that, but I never realised just how restricted my life was until I started driving. Before, outings would have to be scheduled and you were always at the mercy of a bus which might show up on time, or might not.

Of course, if you can't drive for medical reasons, that's different, and I don't think there's something 'wrong' with people who don't drive. But having seen it from both sides, I genuinely believe getting my license was life-changing and it is worth persevering. I hated learning to drive and it took a lot of tears and self-doubt, but the freedom it gives you is unparalleled. Also, when you drive you're in a position to help other people rather than ask for help, and I think this is also really comforting to know.

But quite frankly there have been many occasions when I've really needed his help for example when I moved house and he has not been able to drive here to help me out. I don't ask for much but I am disabled and sometimes I do need a helping hand or someone to pick me up from hospital so I don't have to get three buses home after minor surgery.

I reckon your daughter in law is sick of your son not driving too and you’ve given her some much needed ammunition by putting your foot down!
There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with not driving but it can be selfish if you’re routinely inconveniencing others, limiting your earning capability and living options.

You're assuming it was his lack of driving that stopped him helping you. If he's as lazy and spoilt as you describe him, having a car would not have made a difference.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

I do have some sympathy for non-drivers when it's due to fear and/or medical conditions because all the ones I know are extremely apologetic (which they don't need to be) and they know that even though there is no expectation that they should be able to drive, they are essentially putting other people out because:

• meeting up is focused on places they can get to;
• public transport delays impact quite often;
• it would feel really churlish not to collect/drop them home again;
• when other people in a group can all do something and you can't - you feel it, and so do they.

.
OP, you're definitely not unreasonable to refuse your adult son chauffeur service any longer. He's selfish not to consider the risks to his wife and I think you were right to mention that to him too; you're his mother.

meeting up is focused on places they can get to When other people in a group can all do something and you can't you feel it and so do they

So in essence I should learn to drive so that other people can go where they want to, and do what they want to, and not feel bad because I can't go? If they want to go there, why can't they? If I can't get there then I don't go, the same as if I were working that day, or couldn't find childcare.

There's many other reasons I might not be able to attend something, work and shifts actually being the most likely. Perhaps I should give up my job in case I need to work on a day that my family/friends want to meet up with me in case I'm rota'd in that day, or not have had a child in case I can't get childcare that day and inconvenience them by not being available exactly when and where they want me to be.

Public transport delays impact quite often
No more than traffic does, in fact the most delays are caused by traffic anyway. I've managed full time jobs for my adult life and never been sacked for anything, certainly not poor time keeping. I leave enough time for my journey and factor in delays. Mostly I arrive early as I'll get the bus/train early. That inconveniences me, no one else. I'm happy with that. I expect that people that are always late to work or other things and blame it on transport would be blaming it on traffic or their car breaking down if they drove.

It would feel churlish to not collect/drop them home again

But they're your feelings, that you're blaming someone else for. If they ask/nag/whine I could see why you'd feel like that saying no, but if you feel like that simply because they don't drive that's not their problem, it's yours.
I have had this in the past. Been somewhere I manage to get myself to and back from regularly without a lift, but one friend made a big song and dance about 'having to get me home' when she joined - um no, I'm perfectly capable of getting myself here, which I did every day, and perfectly capable of getting myself home every day, without her. It was nothing more than virtue signalling and I refused the sainted lifts after the first two times, I'm not an opportunity for someone to make themselves feel like a hero.

I don't think that the OP should chauffeur her son around. I don't think anyone should chauffeur anyone around. If having a driving license removes your ability to say no to selfish and entitled people then I'm glad I don't have one! Just because as a driver, someone can't imagine being able to cope without a car, it doesn't mean it's not possible. Many people are shocked to realise I don't drive, because of my hobbies and because I just get on with it, they're the ones who make a big song and dance about it, not me.

I don’t know how people have coped in the pandemic without a car.

They've relied on people with cars!

Or we've used our own two feet. The pandemic hasn't deprived any averagely healthy person of the ability to walk.

I don't see anything wrong at all in people choosing not to drive or not to learn to drive at all. It's a good thing for the environment if more people use public transport and cycle.
I learned to drive when I was 36 because I moved to another country to a rural area. I tried to use the public buses but it was becoming impossible to have any kind of life as the last bus left the city for home at 6pm.
Before that I never needed to drive as I always lived in cities in the UK with good public transport links. I walked to the shops and carried all the food back in a large rucksack. Buses and the local trains were good and I could also be at a mainline station in 20 minutes. If I needed to be anywhere else I paid for a taxi.
But I think people choosing not to drive and then relying on others for lifts is not on. There's a thread on here just about every week about people taking a job at a workplace which is difficult to get to or taking shifts at hours when public transport is not running and then getting lifts from someone else all the time at inconvenience to the lift-giver. That's not on in my opinion.
I think the OP's DS is a cheeky fucker. Don't know why he thinks it's ok to ask his mother to make a 7 hour round trip. He either gets there on public transport himself or he doesn't go. OP, you need to tell him no, it's not on anymore and you won't be giving him lifts all over the place so he needs to work out alternative arrangements.

I have two friends who can't drive, one is super independent and doesn't rely on anyone but always seems to 'make it' to wherever she's going.

The other is an absolute pain in the arse, always asking for lifts and doesn't take into account the driver's journey e.g. she lives 20mins drive from a town centre with good shops, I live 25mins from her house, she doesn't seem to 'get' that it isn't a "it's only 20mins away NK". Grr.

I had this discussion with DD2 regarding DD3 the other day. DD2 passed her test at 17 having always loved cars and practiced driving mine (on private land) since age 14. Her sister has no interest in driving, lives in a city with excellent transport links and cycles everywhere else. The only thing she can't do is come to visit me in my rural village so I tend to visit her. DD2 was maintaining that DD3 NEEDS to learn to drive. But why would she? And, since she's never driven, she doesn't know what freedom she is missing!

@thepeopleversuswork

Chanjer

"Anyone who can't drive needs to have a word with themselves tbh"

Why? I can't drive. I'm a grown woman in my mid 40s. I've never needed to drive anywhere I've lived. In fact owning a car would have been a huge financial/logistical millstone around my neck. I also hate driving with a passion, but if I moved somewhere where I needed to I would crack on with it.

I don't take lifts unless they are offered with good grace and I never expect people to sort transport for me.

Why should it be relevant to you if I don't drive?

Excellent response! I'm exactly the same. Never bothered to learn for the same reasons. Now live in a country where the driving is....entertaining to say the least. If I need to get somewhere and DH has the car I get a taxi. Simple.

I don't ask for much but I am disabled and sometimes I do need a helping hand or someone to pick me up from hospital so I don't have to get three buses home after minor surgery.

Could you find out if there's some kind of local organisation that organises volunteers to drive people home from hospital in your situation?

@goodwinter

[quote Alondra]
*Why? I can't drive. I've never needed to - I live close to town and I get a train/other public transport if I need to go further. I don't ask anyone for lifts. What word do I need to have with myself?

(I will learn eventually before I have kids - but at the moment, who cares?)*

The thing is that the longer you drive the more difficult will be driving with confidence. It takes youth to have a healthy dose of "fearlessness" on the road .....the older you are, the more conservative and safety conscious you are. Whilst being safe is a good thing it's also a handicap - you are more scared of driving than when you are very young and you are less inclined to drive long distances or to places you don't know.

I learned to drive in my 40s as I always lived in a big city with great public transport and didn't need it. It wasn't until I moved to more rural area than it became a necessity. I passed on my first try....but even today, years later, I don't have the confidence to drive to unknown places many young people with less experience than me have.

If you have the money to learn, get your license and start driving. It's incredibly freeing having your own wheels to more around.

Funny you should say that in response to my post - it's actually the opposite (for me anyway). I had lessons when I was a teenager and my anxiety was just too much to continue. I am now 10 years older and feel much more ready, because my mental health is in a better place and I'm more resilient generally. :)[/quote]
It's good to hear you are less anxious today :). I don't have anxiety but I prefer not to drive interstate in Australia or around Europe with a car. I'm unashamedly jealous of my children, weeks after getting their driving license they drove all over Europe with a confidence I will never have!

Or we've used our own two feet. The pandemic hasn't deprived any averagely healthy person of the ability to walk.

Indeed! In fact the only people I would have been able to take lifts from were unavailable for different reasons during the strict lockdown, and I wouldn't have wanted to use a bus. Shanks's pony served my purposes just fine.

I only got my license a few years ago. I do think you don't realise how inconvenient it is not to drive if you've never done it before - I didn't drive for years and it was fine because I just walked everywhere, and my life was set up around me not having a vehicle.

However, now my life and work are built around the fact that I can drive and own my own car. I live rurally and need to drive between jobs. My car was written off last week and I can't get my new one until tomorrow. I had to rely on FIL this morning to get me to work, and it added a good hour or two onto my working day because I had to wait for lifts or walk between clients. Tomorrow my mum is coming to help me out. And you know what? It's a pain in the arse. I didn't realise how reliant I was on my car until I didn't have it!

YANBU OP, but I imagine because your son has always been enabled by various people, he doesn't see asking for lifts as an issue. Just say no. He can take his driving test or suck it up and get the train.