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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think my 3 year old son should be able to dress as Elsa?

393 replies

stealthbanana · 19/07/2020 00:28

My husband and I have just had an enormous fight about this...

My 3.5 year old DS loves Frozen, and has asked for me to buy him (a) a frozen dress up (ie an Elsa or anna costume) and (b) some
“Elsa and anna shoes” (a pair of sneakers one of his nursery classmates has, white with pics of elsa and anna on it).

I’ve just talked to DH about it and his response ha surprised me - he’s said he’s absolutely opposed to my son having an Elsa dress as “it’s opening up his gender identity”. We have a 1 year old daughter and I have said that I don’t think he would be as annoyed if she dresses up as eg fireman Sam and he said that “princesses are different I don’t think that being a fireman is a bad thing”. I asked about the shoes and he said he would be ok if they were “boys shoes”. I had to stop the conversation as was worried it would become a proper argument - he was very angry.

AIBU to think that it’s a total non big deal that a 3 year old wants to dress up as a princess and has nothing to do with their sexuality or gender identity as an adult?

OP posts:
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6
Crackerofdoom · 19/07/2020 11:13

@Youbigdosser

If boys and girls could dress up and identify with any character without needing to be the same gender as their chosen hero, it would actually take the pressure off children and their parents to rush to identify their kids as trans.

Having such a rigid society where you have a limited list of life choices based on your gender forces us to question our gender if our interests and passions do not conform.

OP, the thread I see so much is that it is ok for the girls to dress as male characters but the opposite is unacceptable. This feds into the belief that women are inferiour and that whilst we can aspire to male heroes, there is something wrong with men who aspire to ours.
This is a bias which our sons then carry into adulthood, the workplace, relationships and their own child rearing. Men are better than women Hmm

Ori38 · 19/07/2020 11:14

Men get funny over their sons doing anything that is “girly” because they worry that it will make them gay. There’s no way of sugar coating it, that is what they think. Men want boys raised in stereotypical male ways, with male value systems. They want girls to be girls & boys to be boys no matter how liberal they may say they are.

LaurieMarlow · 19/07/2020 11:17

It's a bit nieve to think you're the only voice that will influence your child. Their peir group, TV and now the Internet will have just as big if not more of an impact.

So challenge those influences, so your child can be secure in expressing whatever identity they want. That’s your job as a parent.

If you want your kids to be picked on to prove a point then crack on. I remember being a kid and the odd balls are the ones that get bullied.

Kowtowing to the lowest common denominator to ‘avoid‘ bullying is a very weak strategy. Building resilience, esteem and acceptance by those closest to them is much more effective.

Shoxfordian · 19/07/2020 11:18

Buy him the dress and tell your husband he's a misogynist

WashYourFins · 19/07/2020 11:21

If you raise it with your DH again maybe ask what he means by “it’s opening up his gender identity” - can your DH explain what he means by this? Following on from that, depending on what he's actually talking about, explore why opening up his gender identity is something he is worried about. What is a "closed gender identity" in his view - is he talking about gender stereotypes? Does he think gender stereotypes are a bad thing? (If being a princess is a "bad" thing, is that bad for both DS and DDs - or just his son? What about being a prince - is that also "bad"?)

How does he feel about these Frozen clothes which are explictly marketed to boys/as unisex? Elsa t shirt and unisex Elsa top

As far as finding a compromise that works for your son, I'd suggest that white trainers are going to get dirty very quickly and some trainers which are darker might be best. Your son can get non-DH-threatening dark blue Olaf trainers. I'd also probably buy an Elsa dress "to share" - be clear it's for sharing, buy it in DS's size and then your DD can grow into it, but just for wearing round the house as a concession to DH. Or ask DH if he feels differently about this Anna dress Black costume - which is arguably not that dissimilar to what your son might end up wearing as a "3 wise men" nativity outfit. Is it the costume, or the character he has a problem with? If your son wants to grow his hair long when he's older, is that going to be an issue too?

ValancyRedfern · 19/07/2020 11:23

Of course yanbu. I'd be really upset too if my dh came out with views like this. It's perfectly normal for a 3 yo boy to dress up as a princess.

Moonmelodies · 19/07/2020 11:25

If it's ok to put him in a dress and pretend to be female, would it be ok for him to paint his face to pretend to be a black character?

SimonJT · 19/07/2020 11:29

@Moonmelodies

If it's ok to put him in a dress and pretend to be female, would it be ok for him to paint his face to pretend to be a black character?
You sound very similar to men in the 1900’s who tried to stop women gaining professional careers because they are for men. Or who refused to look after their own home or children because that is for women to do.
Moonmelodies · 19/07/2020 11:29

@SimonJT

[quote Moonmelodies]
If it's ok to put him in a dress and pretend to be female, would it be ok for him to paint his face to pretend to be a black character?

You sound very similar to men in the 1900’s who tried to stop women gaining professional careers because they are for men. Or who refused to look after their own home or children because that is for women to do.[/quote]
By asking a question??

LaurieMarlow · 19/07/2020 11:41

If it's ok to put him in a dress and pretend to be female

A boy in a dress, emulating a fictional character, isn’t pretending to be female anymore than a girl dressed as batman is pretending to be male.

SleepingStandingUp · 19/07/2020 11:43

@Youbigdosser

For the people that asked me why I would never let my son if I had one dress up as princess. Simple fact of he’s a boy. Same way I would dress a girl up as superman. Plenty of hero’s of their own gender to look up to.
Until all society sees boys in dresses as normal play and not being a girl trapped in a boys body - it's not somthing I would encourage. but that'll never happen unless we teach our boys that's it's normal. If we keep telling them it's not how can society ever catch up. It's like not giving women the vote until everyone agrees it's OK.
CatsArePeopleToo · 19/07/2020 11:46

Men get funny over their sons doing anything that is “girly” because they worry that it will make them gay.
Masculinity is a fragile thing, something that needs to be somehow proved.

That said, going to buy a costume dress for a boy is over the top and unnecessary.

Youbigdosser · 19/07/2020 11:53

Not necessarily a fragile masculinity thing though is it. I’m not a man and I’m surprised by the number of people on here who think this is okay.

SleepingStandingUp · 19/07/2020 11:54

@Ori38

Men get funny over their sons doing anything that is “girly” because they worry that it will make them gay. There’s no way of sugar coating it, that is what they think. Men want boys raised in stereotypical male ways, with male value systems. They want girls to be girls & boys to be boys no matter how liberal they may say they are.
Some.

Some men are educated and broadminded enough to spend half the morning I the Internet looking for a specific costume for their son before buying the tutu for him

LaurieMarlow · 19/07/2020 11:55

Not necessarily a fragile masculinity thing though is it

Our patriarchal, misogynist societies are great at converting women to their cause. They’ve made it your issue and you’ve complied.

yomellamoHelly · 19/07/2020 11:56

My eldest dressed up as Belle. Loved yellow, sequins and feathers. All stopped abruptly when he started school.

Alabamawhirly1 · 19/07/2020 11:57

Kowtowing to the lowest common denominator to ‘avoid‘ bullying is a very weak strategy. Building resilience, esteem and acceptance by those closest to them is much more effective.

So you'd send your son to school in pigtails and a princess dresd if he wanted - knowing he will get picked on, when he doesn't understand that he will - to build resilience. Your kids won't thank you for that.

It's all very idealogical, but that's not the world we live in. If my kids understand that doing somthing very non conformist may lead to discrimination and still want to do it, of course I'll support them. But a toddler doesn't understand that, so can't make an informed choice. I'd never encourage my child to do somthing the outside world doesn't accept before they are old enough to understand that it may lead to negative outcomes.

LaurieMarlow · 19/07/2020 11:59

So you'd send your son to school in pigtails and a princess dresd if he wanted

Send him where?

The OP is about dressing up at home.

Mumoblue · 19/07/2020 11:59

I've heard some crazy things in my time but comparing a little boy wearing an Elsa costume to blackface has to be up there. Hmm

Why can girls look up to male and female characters but boys can only want to emulate other men? It's ridiculous.

Surviving1 · 19/07/2020 12:06

Part of the patriarchy philosophy that we are all fighting, is the requirement that boys have to be physically strong. It is still seen as an important part of masculinity by many men who are struggling to escape or do not want to escape patriarchal values.

Those patriarchal values do not always suit all men/boys. It is not just women/girls who are always the victims of the Patriarchy.

SleepingStandingUp · 19/07/2020 12:07

@Alabamawhirly1

Kowtowing to the lowest common denominator to ‘avoid‘ bullying is a very weak strategy. Building resilience, esteem and acceptance by those closest to them is much more effective.

So you'd send your son to school in pigtails and a princess dresd if he wanted - knowing he will get picked on, when he doesn't understand that he will - to build resilience. Your kids won't thank you for that.

It's all very idealogical, but that's not the world we live in. If my kids understand that doing somthing very non conformist may lead to discrimination and still want to do it, of course I'll support them. But a toddler doesn't understand that, so can't make an informed choice. I'd never encourage my child to do somthing the outside world doesn't accept before they are old enough to understand that it may lead to negative outcomes.

But the world doesn't need to approve of what goes on inside your 4 walls, assuming it's legal of course. Why do you need the worlds approval for him to dress up as a princess? Esp given if he's gone to nursery it's likely he's done IT in front of his peers anyway
Crackerofdoom · 19/07/2020 12:08

@Moonmelodies

If it's ok to put him in a dress and pretend to be female, would it be ok for him to paint his face to pretend to be a black character?
No because black face is racist. It has a long history of being used in stage performances by white performers mocking people of colour and reinforcing stereotyoes of them of being uncivilised and less human than whites.

I suspect you know this. If you don't, you should perhaps spend a few minutes educating yourself.

50 years ago there were countless industries not open to women because people were scared of changing the status quo.

What if we stopped worrying about letting our kids step out of the 'norm' in case they get picked on and teach them that the 'norm' is bullshit and that they should be standing up for their friends who are not conforming to stereotypes which have no grounding except in our atificially created societal norms.

Crackerofdoom · 19/07/2020 12:11

@Alabamawhirly1

Kowtowing to the lowest common denominator to ‘avoid‘ bullying is a very weak strategy. Building resilience, esteem and acceptance by those closest to them is much more effective.

So you'd send your son to school in pigtails and a princess dresd if he wanted - knowing he will get picked on, when he doesn't understand that he will - to build resilience. Your kids won't thank you for that.

It's all very idealogical, but that's not the world we live in. If my kids understand that doing somthing very non conformist may lead to discrimination and still want to do it, of course I'll support them. But a toddler doesn't understand that, so can't make an informed choice. I'd never encourage my child to do somthing the outside world doesn't accept before they are old enough to understand that it may lead to negative outcomes.

What sort of people are you hanging around with who would mock a toddler for what they are wearing?!

Sounds like you are surrounding yourself with some prize assholes

NorfolkKnights · 19/07/2020 12:14

Unless it’s Halloween then no.

If you do let him have the dress be prepared for your husband to avoid being within 40 feet of your son.

TooTrueToBeGood · 19/07/2020 12:16

Men get funny over their sons doing anything that is “girly” because they worry that it will make them gay.

Maybe some men do. I call those men arseholes. As far as I'm concerned my kids and grandkids will be whoever the hell they decide they are and will follow whatever sexual orientation they choose with my full support. But this is just about a child playing and frankly I'd far rather wee boys played with disney princess costumes than toy guns and swords if I had to choose.

Sorry OP but your DH is an arse IMO.