To think my 3 year old son should be able to dress as Elsa?

[stealthbanana]

My husband and I have just had an enormous fight about this...

My 3.5 year old DS loves Frozen, and has asked for me to buy him (a) a frozen dress up (ie an Elsa or anna costume) and (b) some
“Elsa and anna shoes” (a pair of sneakers one of his nursery classmates has, white with pics of elsa and anna on it).

I’ve just talked to DH about it and his response ha surprised me - he’s said he’s absolutely opposed to my son having an Elsa dress as “it’s opening up his gender identity”. We have a 1 year old daughter and I have said that I don’t think he would be as annoyed if she dresses up as eg fireman Sam and he said that “princesses are different I don’t think that being a fireman is a bad thing”. I asked about the shoes and he said he would be ok if they were “boys shoes”. I had to stop the conversation as was worried it would become a proper argument - he was very angry.

AIBU to think that it’s a total non big deal that a 3 year old wants to dress up as a princess and has nothing to do with their sexuality or gender identity as an adult?

Your husband’s reaction is fairly normal I’m afraid. A lot of dads are horrified at their toddler son when they put on a dress, push a doll in a pram. Men are conditioned this way - it what the patriarchy does. Tells men they must be masculine at all times. I think it’s less misogyny more ignorance. And fear to some degree.

It’s his issue, not yours or your son’s. Would he be cross at your son crying? ‘Don’t be such a baby’ that kind of thing?

My sons wore the dresses. At playgroup and at friends houses if not at home. Oldest chose trainers from the ‘girls section’ at Clark’s, wore pink and shrugged when his classmates questioned him ‘because I like it’ (still does as a man). (I just ignored his dad passing judgement on my parenting and let them get on with it. That old fashioned notion of ‘boys will be boys never sat well with me). They will wear the dress whether he likes it or not. And they should.

It isn’t the dressing up that’s the issue, it’s the attitude. Old fashioned and regressive. That’s what your son will learn.

Have a big dressing up box with everything. Your son will choose depending what he is playing at that moment. And he also grow up well balanced.

Your DH needs to have a think about where his feelings on this come from and why he is so against it. Because this is how you will raise your children.

I think a thread on the feminist boards might be a good place to start.

I definitely understand that Lemonadestrawberry. But I do think dressing up at home is very different to putting on a casual dress to go out for the day as normal. DS was absolutely not allowed to wear his flouncy dress (for pretending to be me in) out, nor his Bowser costume actually, because they're wildly impractical. Dressing up clothes get ruined out and about, so they are not allowed. This also shielded DS from hearing unpleasant comments and being confused about some of his dressing up choices from adults.

But dressing up at home is different. There should be absolutely no nasty comments, because the adults in the home should all know that the child is just pretending to be that character, no more.

He's being ridiculous. It's just dressing up and boys or girls can dress up and play princesses.

Either he's got some hidden homophobia and thinks your son will catch the gay if he does anything other than super masculine things, or your husband has picked up on the loop aid regarding adults pushing ideas of gender identity on children.

I think it shows how far the gender ideology has spread though. Whereas people previously would say boys/girls can play dress up and have a range of interests, there's a lot of lobbying going into pushing adult ideas of gender identity onto children, with some groups arguing a child isn't a boy/girl if they show an interest in the 'wrong' stereotypes.

Gender is sexist stereotypes. Gender is sexist. There’s no reason why boys can’t wear dresses/ dress up as Elsa.

You have to be very careful OP.
I have a photo of DS dressed as a nurse when he was 3 and he grew up to be one.
Before you know it your DS could be living North of the Arctic circle as an ice princess with no friends.

You also need to introduce your son to Tangled, which is far superior to Frozen IMO.

I'm completely on your side (and most of the responses). It is FAR more damaging to children to tell them 'x is only for girls' (unless you're taking about a second chromosome of course )

Stuffing children into gendered boxes and forcing them to conform is what is encouraging the huge trans movement. Children should be taught that they can DO whatever they like in terms of play, imagination, likes/dislikes, clothes etc. That does not change the fundamental of who they ARE.

Society will do a great job of imposing strict gender stereotypes on your child. As his parents you should be encouraging him to explore whatever he wants regardless of those.

My own DH was initially quite taken aback and resistant to our DS liking dresses, sparkles, pink etc but I ignored it and carried on anyway. He is absolutely ok with it now and encourages our DS to be anyone he likes.

This is my grandson in his Elsa dress, he is five. He has always worn it, loves everything to do with Elsa.

He worn a fantastic dress to his school disco and everyone though he looked great. He is a kid and can wear what ever he wants

Wish!
I think prohibiting a little boy from dressing up in a dress is more likely to cause confusion with gender.
'I like dressing up in sparkly dresses but they are only for girls, therefore I must be in the wrong body/not really a boy'
Vs
'Boys and girls can dress up in anything they like. I like this princess dress therefore I am a boy who ( right now) likes sparkly and swishy clothing.'

Some posters here don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between dressing up as a character and dressing in a dress in day to day life. There absolutely is a difference - kids like to dress up as characters they watch on TV. Stop making out that parents who don’t have an issue with their young children playing dress up and exploring their imagination are “woke” or “trendy” 🙄

My son was constantly in a dress at that age and frequently an Elsa one. Got numerous pics of him all dressed up. It's a phase and it probably won't last. It's just toys let him play

In fact when I picked him up
From nursery once I was told, by a very entertained nursery worker, that another boy had told him "boys don't wear dresses" he'd replied "my mummy said I can wear anything I want" then all the boys had spent the rest of the day in dresses :)

@Floatyboat

Does everyone saying it's fine for boys to dress as women also support "black face"?

Could a white boy dress up as an explicitly black Princess?

Well I'd buy him a Tiana dress or a Moana dress, as I would a girl. What is wrong with white children being Tiana or a black child being Cinderella or any variation between the two? Or a white child boy or girl dressing up as Black Panther or black child dressing up as Superman.

Were going to seriously damage our child if they can only dress up/emulate people with matching skin tone, heritage and genitals

I wouldn't be buying Elsa dresses for either a boy or a girl. Utter tat and a waste of money

Lemonade you are so mistaken.

The little boy wants to dress up as Elsa - a kick-ass super powered character with great songs and sparkly stuff. Good for him, he’s identified the impressive one.

My 21yo always wanted to be Dora and had me be Boots because Dora was the main character. He moved on to Thunderbirds and other more stereotypical boy things and is a perfectly normal young man. Being a Mexican 5yo girl in make believe as a preschooler caused no lasting damage for Pete’s sake.

Let the kid play.

DS1 likes to dress up as a lion, and DS2 as a zombie. Should I be worried? Or is it alright as long as it's a male zombie?

Buy him an Elsa costume. I'll point out in Frozen 2 Elsa and Anna wore trousers as they were more adventurous so the outfits for frozen 2 might not be dresses anyway.
Not that it matters either way.
Ds2 used to dress up as an apple (no idea where the costume came from) he has no interest in being fruit now hes older.

One day I collected one of my son from nursery dressed up as a queen. The next day it was a bee costume. My sons are clearly going to grow being soooo confused (like, believing the way you dress is only a very superficial identity marker, or something)

This has really upset me. I feel my DH is rejecting any ability for my son to admire or co opt femininity and it make me really upset particularly as my daughter has been dressed in all blue/boy hand me downs since birth and is constantly confused as a boy which no one seems to find a problem.

OP . I would be very upset too. It sounds like you’re realising that your DH is sexist, this is painful realisation to live with especially if you thought he wasn’t. This can be hard to talk about IRL if he’s an otherwise good dad and decent man but I would say keep engaging with your DH on these points and also talk about it IRL with other women who get it so you have support.

IME the penny can drop for men in relation to what sexism really means when they apply the sexist logic for their own children and the women in their lives and see how it impacts on them. It’s male privilege absolutely but astonishingly men can live in that unthinking bubble for years.
Also I would recommend everyone to the Feminist board on here for a place to talk about all these issues and more.

Most 3 year olds know what's for girls and what's for boys. Your son clearly wants what the girls have no, he wants dress-up, not a vagina. Kids this age don't care. Thry all play dolls and cars and doctors and teachers and princesses and knights etc. It's play, it's using their imagination.

Letting little boys cross dress is opening up a can of worms. Your ds doesn't know that it's unusual for boys to dress in girls clothes - but by letting him do so you could be starting him on a path to pubity blockers and genital mutilation. or by more people letting this generation of preschoolers dress however they want, it won't be such a thing because no one will see little Derek in an Elsa dress as unusial

Stuffing children into gendered boxes and forcing them to conform is what is encouraging the huge trans movement. Children should be taught that they can DO whatever they like in terms of play, imagination, likes/dislikes, clothes etc. That does not change the fundamental of who they ARE

It is and absolutely right.

All mine could express themselves how they wanted, there's no such thing as gendered when they're little. They all had prams and dolls as well as dressing up and all slotted into their intended lives unscathed. Youngest is 13 and very much 'boy' but still loves costumes. I see performing arts in his future.

I had all the usual crap from the ex as well. Men can be thick sometimes when it comes to their sons.

princesses are different I don’t think that being a fireman is a bad thing

I'm really curious to know whether he'd be happy with his DD dressing up as a princess?

If princess = bad, why would DD be allowed to?

Do all female characters = bad, and all male characters = good?

Tell him it’s not a big deal until he makes it a big deal. Your ds will see his dads reaction and learn from it. It’s just an item of clothing what does he think is going to happen by your ds wearing it?

@randomer

Here's a crazy thought......does a 3 year old simply have to have everything they wish for? Their ideas change fairly rapidly. Today he might want a space rocket or a puppy or a bag of Haribo or to be dressed as a panda.

Yes this is clearly a sing that op has brought everything he's ever asked for.

OP has said the kid needs shoes, he asked for Elsa ones and mentioned he wanted the dress. Op has mentioned this to DH and he's blown up. It could be said child's birthday in a month and she might have seen a 2nd hand one in the charity shop for a fiver. He might have Christmas money left and this is the only thing he's asked to spend it on. Clearly the husband argument isn't about the child being spoilt

We have a 1 year old daughter and I have said that I don’t think he would be as annoyed if she dresses up as eg fireman Sam and he said that “princesses are different I don’t think that being a fireman is a bad thing”

Basically, your DH is sexist. He thinks that fictional female characters are worth less than fictional make characters as heroes for children.

Girls dressing up as male fictional characters is acting "up" while boys dressing up as fictional female characters is acting "down."

He values men over women; he doesn't see women as his equals.