Friend and children still in complete lockdown

[madbirdlady22]

I am getting quite worried about a friend of mine, and wondered if there is something I can or should be doing do to help her.

Since mid March she has been in lockdown with her dh and children, and along the same lines as everyone else stayed in. Back then she would not even take the children for a walk, they stayed at home 247 with shopping delivered. I asked her why not go for a walk, but she said there was no need as they have a garden.

Now we are in mid July, and the children have still not been out. They decided against going back to school in June, and they have not been out anywhere at all since March. I am feeling quite worried now, not just for her, but for the children as well (they are ages 7 and 4) she has not seen any friends or been out of the house at all since the lockdown began.

I suggested the park, she said it was too busy, I mentioned going to the gardens nearby for a picnic with her dc, and she said they couldn't get a ticket, but I know it is possible to get tickets easily. She lives an hour and a half away, so I can't just pop in and check on her, and I feel I should respect her wishes.

She is now saying she doesn't think the children will go back to school in September after all. I am getting very worried about her.

I think/thought her MH is fine, her dh has PTSD at the moment. I am feeling concerned, she has no family nearby and no other support from what I can gather.

They spend all day every day in the house or in the garden.
They are not shielding, are not vulnerable at all and they are all perfectly healthy.

Should I say something? Are other people also doing this? Should I just leave them to it? She has been a friend for 35 years plus and we grew up together.

I'm not worried about dying from it, so not being "deadly" to me isn't a concern. It's the not knowing if my lungs and general health would be ruined. Which is happening to a number of people.

This doesn't mean I'm staying locked in though, I'm hopefully being sensible...

I do know several people still not leaving house and garden.
We haven’t been anywhere other than local walks and haven’t met up with anyone. Have been going to the supermarket though.
I think my friends are all really anxious people and I don’t think it’s great, I also don’t think they’re wrong. I think they will start to go out in their own time.

I definitely wouldn’t be contacting the children’s school behind a friend’s back! Not unless there was a huge safeguarding issue!

@Summer41 I think if your children are very young and are coping at home that is possibly fine but as children grow they need to play with others in order to develop appropriately. Children learn through play and new experiences.

As children get older they need more new experiences. As the OP mentions a 7 year old it makes me very sad to think of them cut off like that - I hve a 7 year old he was incredibly miserable during lockdown without his friends.

Hi OP you sound like a very kind and well-intended friend!

However, reading this ive realised our household is operating in similar methods. I'm full time Carer to our (SEND) DC (6). We opted to keep away from school as we were both home, home school actually brought significant improvements to both learning and calm for our D.C. and numbers in our area are jumping about a fair bit. We also have deep concerns surrounding the unthinkable case of our D.C. contracting the virus and not receiving the correct care in hospital due to amendments via the government under COVID.

So we have been in lockdown really still, aside from a weekly shop and a weekly visit from my parents we have barely been out. If we have taken D.C. out to a park it's been very early or very late in the day. DC is happy at home, content , calm and learning better, our concerns are still high and we have negotiated a plan for returning in September-but made clear only if situation is safe enough.

Would we be of concern to you? It feels like we are adopting the list logical approach that fits us best for now- I'm not tempted to conduct a restaurant or shopping mall anytime soon I've just got trust in the info we are given yet!?!

I would try and go and see your friend asap or just turn up.
If you ring the school and they dont keep your confidence or she guesses it's you I would imagine you may lose her friendship.
I can see why you're concerned. It's the drinking that would worry me if that's out of character.

Let her be - people are still dying, we're still in the first wave, don't make her feel bad about a decision that she is comfortable with.

While the risk to most children is minimal, it is much less so for the parents/grandparents they will come into contact with. I am 47 and have no health conditions that would place me in the vulnerable catagory. I am someone who is obese, generally unfit and tends to get floored and need antibiotics if I get anything chesty so I don't know how covid might affect me. My son's dad and his partner are both vulnerable (not shielding) due to underlying health conditions. It has made us all more careful than some.

I am fully prepared to consider that I may have this wrong.

That in taking my children out, letting them see their friends, trying to live something approaching a normal life is actually dangerous for us. Maybe my friend thinks I am the one that is being irresponsible.

I am not saying my way is the right way, I am very willing to consider that we are may be taking big risks, and those that are staying at home are the sensible ones. I don't know everything about the virus, and I am not qualified to say who is right or wrong. So certainly no judgement here if you decide to stay in a lockdown.

This thread seems to have uncovered the fact that lots of families are still staying at home in a complete lockdown. I thought it might be a on off with my friend.

People’s personalities are different. I haven’t struggled with lockdown. In fact, all the stress of school runs and going to work was removed.

There are people I would like to see. I hope I will see them soon. But it’s not desperate and I think it sounds like your friend is like me, having a lovely tone pottering and baking.

My dc haven’t seen other children to play with. In normal times it’s not ideal but these aren’t normal times. I’m not certain they will go back to school in September either.

I think it’s lovely that you’re concerned about your friend but I wouldn’t be at all pleased if people started turning up at my home unannounced and insisting I do things I don’t want to do.

But most of my friends are more cautious than me! Most of them still haven’t been to the supermarket and some haven’t been for a walk.

It's worrying hearing about cases like this, OP. I have been back at work FT since 1st June. It WAS weird at first, being out, and the roads were very quiet, but this past week they've been almost back to normal. Having to queue through a couple of traffic light changes etc. I am enjoying seeing friends' FB updates of them abroad on holiday. People such as your friend won't even realise that life is back to normal in a lot of ways outside of her "cocoon". It does sound like she is stuck in a fear mindset and as you say, that's really not fair on her children. I wonder when Social Services will be able to get involved in cases like this? Keeping your children from normal life is a form of abuse in my opinion. WE've all seen the cases from places like America where religious fanatics lock their children away so that they've never really engaged with the outside world.

@newnamenewgamenewpain: I would be concerned for your mental health too actually. It doesn't sound like you are thinking rationally either.

Anyone who isn't vulnerable health wise has to use their wisdom to make decisions, not their fear.

Op I think you are right to be worried. It can't be good for anyone MH to be cooped up for months.

What really worries me is the thought of them needlessly isolating over the summer when risks are very low, then us entering a second lockdown when the weathers rotten and not being able to gather outdoors either.

I believe that we are in some form of SD until we have a vaccine which is still going to be a while away.

As for ‘when are we going to return to normal as the virus is here to stay?’

For me, I want to see the impact of easing restrictions before deciding that we will go to public places, meet up with people etc.

I want to see what happens to cases over the Summer.

Because we’re quite happy, there’s no rush.

double If I were your friend, I would be less worried about you as you are shopping and see your parents, so you are going out. I would probably think your children would benefit from playing with other children over the summer, but overall I would not be worried enough to think you needed help. Or worried about your mh. I would consider you risk adverse, and thats okay.
My friend has not left her house at all in months, so it is slightly different.

I think this is a mental health issue now and hardly surprising given what’s we have all been through. I don’t have any easy answers though. My friend is young healthy on her own and isn’t going out. We zoom each week and her mental health has really suffered to the point of agrophobia. Your friend is not the only one x

For all the people on here who aren't elderly, vulnerable or shielding yet still not going out of their house...can I ask, do you avoid all risk? I mean do you travel by car? Play sports? Get on a plane? Do you not understand statistics? Can you not analyse risk? I know that sounds sneering but it totally baffles me.

To properly evaluate risk, you need facts. For the last few months, facts have been hard to come by. Scientists have been arguing with each other, i.e. are masks helpful or not. Different countries have taken different precautions yet apparently all following the same expert advice. It's like pulling teeth to find out exactly how and where the virus is being transmitted. Experts can't even seem to agree on whether it's airborne or not.

Add in to that mix that huge numbers of people are too arrogant and selfish to follow guidance. In the weeks leading up to lockdown, people were told to wash their hands regularly, avoid busy places, practice social distancing, self isolate with symptoms, etc., but far too many simply couldn't be arsed to do that. Now, face masks are to be compulsory in shops in a week's time, but social media is full of selfish twats who are going to refuse to do it.

At least with aircraft, the whole industry is trained from day one on the importance of procedures, safety, etc. You're unlikely to get a pilot who ignores the rules/guidance and does what the hell he wants to do anyway.

Yes, car related accidents/deaths are unfortunate, but the figures show that it's usually the driver or passenger who die or who are injured, and often due to drink driving, speeding, etc. It's a lot rarer for an "innocent" in a different car or a pedestrian to be killed. Even then, people can take precautions like not crossing in blind spots, waiting for traffic to stop at pedestrian crossings, standing/walk back from the roadside on pavements, etc.

If you're stood in a park and some pillock comes and stands right next to you (having not self isolated because he didn't think his symtoms were covid) and sneezes in your face, you're pretty screwed and there's not much you could do about it!

On one of the rare trips out of our house, I had to take our cat to the vets. Despite signage, floor markings, etc. showing separate waiting areas of the waiting room, loads of signage telling people to stay 2 metres apart, etc., this stupid woman walked across the room, carrying her chair and came and sat literally inches away from me, wanting a chat. She didn't take kindly when I told her to get back to her own side of the waiting room!

We can control what we do, but we can't control what those around us are going to do.

Let her be - people are still dying, we're still in the first wave, don't make her feel bad about a decision that she is comfortable with

But what happens to the mental health of her children?

They don't have a voice, what if her actions are damaging her children perhaps permanently?

This is not just a pandemic, but a huge social experiment in combination. We have never locked away our children for this long in the long and chequered history of mankind. It has never happened. What will be the consequences be to them Lego? That is what I am seriously worried, not just about my friend and her dc.

I imagine you will tell me if it is better than being dead but is it? Because the risk to children is so small, and they could end up with lifelong MH issues that drastically limits and ruins their lives. Or they might bounce back. Perhaps someone qualified in this area will post on here to tell us what the likely scenario will be.

@madbirdlady22 you don't need to think that your decisions might be the risky ones - because they clearly aren't. Mixing with other children has been agreed by scientists to be safe - look at scotland where they have specifically said that children don't need to social distance outdoors.

I would be worried about people who don't leave the house with a 7 year old because I simply can't believe a child can live like that happily - also, it's the way they are approaching risk that is concerning - clearly taking a 7 year old for a bike ride or to the park - even if you don't meet up with others - is completely safe and fun and healthy - so if you literally don't do that and won't step outside - you are not making sensible decisions.

Hmmmm I think it's such a difficult one for each family to navigate given the appalling handling of this pandemic from the very start.

Public trust is understandably low in decisions made and the lack of logic applied to easing of lockdown with the transparent focus on the economy (important yes but not vital to life) has I think hit people hard. The natural human reaction does tempt us all into hibernation but it's sooo hard!
I just can't contemplate play dates yet but that's largely to do with my views on how other households have operated badly imho throughout.

Tough times but I think you should leave your friend be,

Assuming her children are not shielding, then the risk to their mental health is far higher than the risk of covid to them.

@madbirdlady22 twitter.com/dftbubbles?lang=en

Don't forget the bubbles - on twitter - they are peadiatricians reassuring parents that going to school/ mixing with friends is safe.

@formerbabe

For all the people on here who aren't elderly, vulnerable or shielding yet still not going out of their house...can I ask, do you avoid all risk? I mean do you travel by car? Play sports? Get on a plane? Do you not understand statistics? Can you not analyse risk? I know that sounds sneering but it totally baffles me.

Yes it sounds sneering .

I don't feel I am missing out at the moment by not going out. Mostly, it hasn't been necessary for me. I rarely went to the pub or to eat out before (maybe every 6 weeks), I didn't shop for fun and already did most of my shopping online, I didn't go to the gym or go walking for fun. Why would I start now in the middle of a pandemic? Before I go out, I think do I need/want to do this? If the answer is no - why would I do it and increase the risk of catching Covid? Non of my close friends have been to the pub or out to eat yet. I have not been turning down lots of invitations.

I used to go out to work, but I am now required to work (and actually prefer it) from home. I have seen less of my friends but actually speak to them more often than I did before.

@Badbadbunny "No one in real life knows OH has cancer, not even our son." What about his employer, assuming he works? Hasn't he had to disclose to them? I don't know how it works everywhere but for my place of employment those shielding had to send a copy of their shielding letter into work. Both my parents are in the extremely clinically vulnerable category but I haven't asked to see what their letter actually says so don't know whether it states their condition? In the case of sickness absence youre not allowed to keep your medical condition secret if you want to get your sickness pay, I don't think.

Someone would call social services on a family that are happy to stay in?

Right... ok.

wonder I agree, that is pretty much how I see it, but I am prepared to listen to other views and evaluate the risk. I had hoped to talk to her today about this, but now I am not so sure, you can see from other posts this might the last thing she needs!

I have a friend doing this too. She is very anxious (not like her at all) and also has taken the guidelines quite literally. So because she can’t guarantee her small kids would absolutely always stay 2ms apart, she says well obviously we can’t go out. She believes everyone else is very irresponsible.

I don’t think the not returning to school is in and of itself a problem. I know lots of great home educating families (who are also keen to return to their classes and groups!). But the extreme isolation is worrying. I’m not sure what you can do, but she isn’t alone.