Friend and children still in complete lockdown

[madbirdlady22]

I am getting quite worried about a friend of mine, and wondered if there is something I can or should be doing do to help her.

Since mid March she has been in lockdown with her dh and children, and along the same lines as everyone else stayed in. Back then she would not even take the children for a walk, they stayed at home 247 with shopping delivered. I asked her why not go for a walk, but she said there was no need as they have a garden.

Now we are in mid July, and the children have still not been out. They decided against going back to school in June, and they have not been out anywhere at all since March. I am feeling quite worried now, not just for her, but for the children as well (they are ages 7 and 4) she has not seen any friends or been out of the house at all since the lockdown began.

I suggested the park, she said it was too busy, I mentioned going to the gardens nearby for a picnic with her dc, and she said they couldn't get a ticket, but I know it is possible to get tickets easily. She lives an hour and a half away, so I can't just pop in and check on her, and I feel I should respect her wishes.

She is now saying she doesn't think the children will go back to school in September after all. I am getting very worried about her.

I think/thought her MH is fine, her dh has PTSD at the moment. I am feeling concerned, she has no family nearby and no other support from what I can gather.

They spend all day every day in the house or in the garden.
They are not shielding, are not vulnerable at all and they are all perfectly healthy.

Should I say something? Are other people also doing this? Should I just leave them to it? She has been a friend for 35 years plus and we grew up together.

You sound like a good friend OP, it's good that you spoke to her and she is going to try and push herself to get out.

This really isn't an option for lots of people! Imagine if everyone just gave up their jobs!
People are different and make different decisions based on their own health and finances and the type of job they have. Some are committed to their careers and some aren’t. Some need the money and some can scrape by without. Some are young and healthy and some are older with immune problems, or look after someone who’s at risk. There’s no right answer. It’s perfectly acceptable that some choose to work while others choose to stay at home and pay others for their services.

My DH has an office based job where he only has contact with a dozen or so sensible adults and has his own desk spaced 2m from colleagues - we feel that’s an acceptable risk. I’d be going into school and moving from one classroom to another, having contact with hundreds of teenagers and being required to do cleaning duties - we don’t feel that’s an acceptable risk. Some of my ex colleagues have also decided to leave because they’re older or have health concerns - others are healthy and totally committed to their vocation so have decided to stay. Different strokes for different folks.

To be honest I don't know many people who can afford to give up their jobs and just stay in because of Covid. And once you get out there and have done a few weeks' work and realised that nobody you know or work with has caught it and life is going on pretty much as normal, the fear does tend to go.

@Raimona I think you should stop making the point about people choosing to work. I don't know anyone who chooses to work. The whole 'different strokes for different folks' makes you seem out of touch with reality. Of course there are some people who have the luxury of not working but they will be in the minority. Most people can't get up in the morning and just stop.

Most people can't get up in the morning and just stop
This isn’t a normal situation. You’re literally choosing between death and poverty. I’ve chosen poverty because if I catch coronavirus it’ll kill me and probably my parents too.

Oh don’t be so melodramatic! Death or poverty😂. By all means give up your job because of your health issues but don’t make out the rest of us are risking death because we go to work.

Keep it in perspective.

don’t make out the rest of us are risking death because we go to work
You’re not. But I am. I’m responding to the poster who said it’s “revolting” for me to stay at home while others go to work. Well the risk is different for different people and different types of jobs!

I appreciate that everyone has the right to evaluate their own levels of risk and take whatever steps they need to protect their own family. Its also not possible to exclude the possibility that this family may be privately shielding.

But I have observed a strain of thought at the moment which is evident on here which combines a bit of fear with a dash of agoraphobia and an element of triumphant introvertism which says: "I'm alright jack at home with my family. I'm not leaving the home again until I have to. I don't care what society thinks about me and I feel good about having license to ignore being part of society." And it makes me quite uncomfortable.

There's a legitimate degree of fear in this reaction and its understandable that people feel like this after confronting genuine fear. But there's also an element of people feeling vindicated in their desire not to go outside, not to socialise, not to let the world in, and I find it slightly unhealthy and depressing.

I find it worrying that so many people think that their optimal way of life is essentially to shut out non-essential people. I also think there's a very smug undercurrent to the "loving lockdown" narrative anyway: this is essentially people who don't need to work enjoying the fact that they now have the moral high ground to feel good about not having to work and enjoying the fact that people who do have to work get to feel awkward about it.

I've had to work right through and its been very tough, to put it mildly. I'm the sole breadwinner and I have no-one at all to rely on to support my children. I have loathed lockdown at at times and I've found the outpouring of smug about how much time people get to spend with their families, baking, gardening, all that jazz, to be quite tactless and hard to take.

So admittedly I'm not always very objective about this. But when I look at a situation like the OP's friend my feeling is that while I don't judge this family because I don't know their situation, I really hope this strand of slightly smug self-congratulation by people who can afford to isolate themselves from the rest of society and feel that they have a right to do so indefinitely comes to an end quite soon. I think its not ideal for the children, not great for society and not something to be encouraged.

Raimona You did say that. Quote “you are literally choosing between death and poverty”.

I think a lot of the people who are too scared to leave their home should spend some of their spare time doing some GCSE maths questions on probability

@thepeopleversuswork

I guess everyone just thinks they are doing the right thing. You can't reason 'I'm doing it for my family' out of people.

And yes, I also got a bit sick of the pictures on Facebook and everyone talking about lockdown, when I was going out to work every day, dealing with customers who were getting stroppy because there wasn't any bread in the shop and constantly worrying about getting ill and therefore having to take time off and not be able to pay the bills as a result.

Fine to shut yourself away in the bosom of your family if you can afford to. But don't pretend it's a lifestyle choice when it's fear, pure and simple.

@Raimona

Most people can't get up in the morning and just stop This isn’t a normal situation. You’re literally choosing between death and poverty. I’ve chosen poverty because if I catch coronavirus it’ll kill me and probably my parents too.

That's absurd. You're not literally choosing between death and poverty. It's fine that you've given up work. Great if that's what you want to do but you're in a very privileged position to do that.

Sorry @thepeopleversuswork - I just read that back it sounds as though I am countering your argument, I'm not, I'm agreeing with it!

You did say that. Quote “you are literally choosing between death and poverty”
Yes I genuinely feel that I am. Of course that’s not the case for everyone, depending on their own health and what type of job they do.

@thepeopleversuswork

I appreciate that everyone has the right to evaluate their own levels of risk and take whatever steps they need to protect their own family. Its also not possible to exclude the possibility that this family may be privately shielding.

But I have observed a strain of thought at the moment which is evident on here which combines a bit of fear with a dash of agoraphobia and an element of triumphant introvertism which says: "I'm alright jack at home with my family. I'm not leaving the home again until I have to. I don't care what society thinks about me and I feel good about having license to ignore being part of society." And it makes me quite uncomfortable.

There's a legitimate degree of fear in this reaction and its understandable that people feel like this after confronting genuine fear. But there's also an element of people feeling vindicated in their desire not to go outside, not to socialise, not to let the world in, and I find it slightly unhealthy and depressing.

I find it worrying that so many people think that their optimal way of life is essentially to shut out non-essential people. I also think there's a very smug undercurrent to the "loving lockdown" narrative anyway: this is essentially people who don't need to work enjoying the fact that they now have the moral high ground to feel good about not having to work and enjoying the fact that people who do have to work get to feel awkward about it.

I've had to work right through and its been very tough, to put it mildly. I'm the sole breadwinner and I have no-one at all to rely on to support my children. I have loathed lockdown at at times and I've found the outpouring of smug about how much time people get to spend with their families, baking, gardening, all that jazz, to be quite tactless and hard to take.

So admittedly I'm not always very objective about this. But when I look at a situation like the OP's friend my feeling is that while I don't judge this family because I don't know their situation, I really hope this strand of slightly smug self-congratulation by people who can afford to isolate themselves from the rest of society and feel that they have a right to do so indefinitely comes to an end quite soon. I think its not ideal for the children, not great for society and not something to be encouraged.

Why does other people choosing to isolate bother you so much though? They aren't hurting you in any way are they?

Personally I've found all the "the only.people at risk would have died within the next year" comments that have abounded on MN far more upsetting than any of the "we've enjoyed being together during lockdown" comments.

It is up to each individual to decide what risk they find acceptable. The authorities will have to decide what is unacceptable for families with children involved. Personally, I judge the people out and about mixing with multiple people far more than the people staying at home. The people staying at home only affect themselves.

Zaphodsotherhead

I didn't take from that that you were countering the argument.

The thing is though I think for some people it is a lifestyle choice.

I've noticed a lot of people saying things like "I'm an introvert and lockdown has been great because its given me license not to have to deal with people." Or "lockdown was great because it allowed me to get off the hamster wheel and concentrate on my family".

My reaction to that kind of impulse is, well bully for you. I have to deal with people and I have to be on the hamster wheel in order to guarantee my family's survival. I slightly resent the implication that I'm doing so just because I'm a ball-busting career bitch who has to be out networking just to feel good.

There's an unpleasant undertone (in my mind at least) of people who prefer quiet, family-oriented lives (and there's nothing wrong with that by the way) being a bit sneery about "the ratrace" and how much lockdown allowed them to get of it. Without stopping to think that a lot of us depend on the rat race to put food on the table.

Raminona In that case your sentence should have been “I” not “you”. I have a high risk job, I certainly don’t feel like I’m dicing with death because of Covid. I keep it in perspective.

I think a lot of the people who are too scared to leave their home should spend some of their spare time doing some GCSE maths questions on probability
The government has done a very good job of scaring people. Now they don’t want to go out. Which is not what the government wants to see now that they’ve changed tack from saving lives to saving the economy. Restaurants etc have reopened but people are too scared to go - hence the scheme for cut price meals during August, to encourage reluctant people to eat out.

If you can afford as an individual or a family to quit work then as at any other time, why not. But I feel leaving a job voluntarily at the start of a recession is far more of a risk, especially when it's likely to cause major changes to your standard of living. I'd rather have a roof over my head and money to be able to feed my children with the very small possibility of dying from it. But as you say, different strokes. It's just not overly feasible for most, or something most feel the need to do to be fair.

*Hearhoovesthinkzebras"

"Why does other people choosing to isolate bother you so much though? They aren't hurting you in any way are they?"

People choosing to isolate doesn't bother me at all. People implying that they are much more family-oriented than me and appreciate the important things in life more than I do and that their values are more aligned with those of their children, because they have the luxury of not having to work, does bother me for the reasons I've outlined.

Zaphodsotherhead

Don't presume that everyone is locking themselves away from fear. Because I am certainly not. Lockdown has given us an opportunity to experience a way of life we hadn't previously as a family and we found we liked it. I've had COVID and whilst it was thoroughly unpleasant I'm not scared of it. We just have nothing which is more of a draw to go out for than the draw of remaining at home. We can't see grandparents yet, our home and garden are lovely, DH and I both work full time from home and the kids are not yet back in physical school (1 more week of virtual school)and none of their friends are meeting up yet. Our local summer play schemes and holiday schemes are not running. There's few campsites open to tents so no holiday for us this year. I don't see the point in leaving the house for the sake it, we have no need to and no desire to, if we did, we would.

@thepeopleversuswork

Zaphodsotherhead

I didn't take from that that you were countering the argument.

The thing is though I think for some people it is a lifestyle choice.

I've noticed a lot of people saying things like "I'm an introvert and lockdown has been great because its given me license not to have to deal with people." Or "lockdown was great because it allowed me to get off the hamster wheel and concentrate on my family".

My reaction to that kind of impulse is, well bully for you. I have to deal with people and I have to be on the hamster wheel in order to guarantee my family's survival. I slightly resent the implication that I'm doing so just because I'm a ball-busting career bitch who has to be out networking just to feel good.

There's an unpleasant undertone (in my mind at least) of people who prefer quiet, family-oriented lives (and there's nothing wrong with that by the way) being a bit sneery about "the ratrace" and how much lockdown allowed them to get of it. Without stopping to think that a lot of us depend on the rat race to put food on the table.

I think you are projecting massively here.

People choosing to stay at home and people enjoying being at home isn't an attack on your choices.

This has more than a passing resemblance to the SAHM Vs the work outside the home mum. Different people make different choices depending on their circumstances. A person choosing to be a SAHM isn't an attack on the WOHM just as people staying at home now is not an attack on people working outside the home now.

maxdash

"Lockdown has given us an opportunity to experience a way of life we hadn't previously as a family and we found we liked it."

But that's the thing: an awful lot of people haven't had that opportunity. They've had to work right through and its been pretty grim. I'm sorry you had to experience COVID and that must have been awful.

But I'm tired of hearing this narrative of people slowing down with their families and reprioritising family values etc. Because some of us haven't had that luxury: we've had to keep slogging through it and not seeing our children, or at least only seeing them in the least optimal way. And while I don't begrudge anyone who's found lockdown brought out the best in them, it does irritate me that there's this implication that those of us who had to work don't prioritise our families, don't value our health etc. It feels like a judgement.

That's a bit of a digression from the subject of the OP. But there's a lot of this about at the moment and while I can see there are some positives, I think its making people quite insular, very risk averse and ultimately quite selfish.

@thepeopleversuswork

*Hearhoovesthinkzebras"

"Why does other people choosing to isolate bother you so much though? They aren't hurting you in any way are they?"

People choosing to isolate doesn't bother me at all. People implying that they are much more family-oriented than me and appreciate the important things in life more than I do and that their values are more aligned with those of their children, because they have the luxury of not having to work, does bother me for the reasons I've outlined.

Why are they implying that they are more family oriented than you though, just because they say they are enjoying it? That's you projecting your feelings.

Someone saying they are enjoying something isn't an attack on people who don't enjoy it or who don't do it. That's a very strange argument. Is no one allowed to say they enjoy something or are happy doing something?

thepeopleversuswork And absolutely no judgement on how you (or others) live your life whether out of necessity or choice. I can understand that some people have been desperate to "get back to normal" because they haven't liked lockdown or that some people have little choice but to carry on as normal, which is obviously more difficult if they do not enjoy their normal. I'm considered a key worker (my job is planning how we deal with COVID on our hospital sites e.g. moving all cancer treatment to a hospital where we aren't treating COVID patients, allocation of PPE between hospital staff and community staff. second wave planning etc), but it can all be done at home and DH can work very flexibly and our children's school have done 'virtual school' so we haven't taken up a key worker space at a local school because we didn't feel it was fair (on our kids or the receiving school).