Friend and children still in complete lockdown

[madbirdlady22]

I am getting quite worried about a friend of mine, and wondered if there is something I can or should be doing do to help her.

Since mid March she has been in lockdown with her dh and children, and along the same lines as everyone else stayed in. Back then she would not even take the children for a walk, they stayed at home 247 with shopping delivered. I asked her why not go for a walk, but she said there was no need as they have a garden.

Now we are in mid July, and the children have still not been out. They decided against going back to school in June, and they have not been out anywhere at all since March. I am feeling quite worried now, not just for her, but for the children as well (they are ages 7 and 4) she has not seen any friends or been out of the house at all since the lockdown began.

I suggested the park, she said it was too busy, I mentioned going to the gardens nearby for a picnic with her dc, and she said they couldn't get a ticket, but I know it is possible to get tickets easily. She lives an hour and a half away, so I can't just pop in and check on her, and I feel I should respect her wishes.

She is now saying she doesn't think the children will go back to school in September after all. I am getting very worried about her.

I think/thought her MH is fine, her dh has PTSD at the moment. I am feeling concerned, she has no family nearby and no other support from what I can gather.

They spend all day every day in the house or in the garden.
They are not shielding, are not vulnerable at all and they are all perfectly healthy.

Should I say something? Are other people also doing this? Should I just leave them to it? She has been a friend for 35 years plus and we grew up together.

But the less ta that's paid to pay for the NHS! People on furlough don't pay NI!

I think the poster you addressed the comment to is a SAHM though so furlough is completely irrelevant. Whether she's going out for daily walks or not she's not paying NI, so I'm not seeing the relevance of mentioning furlough or NI.

There are also plenty of people WFH too so still earning, paying tax and NI and spending money, even without going out.

Yep. I'm (safely) making the most of the low risk things we're allowed to do, and while the weather facilitates it. I need to boost my mental health to a point where I can manage another lockdown. Especially as it won't be garden weather or light evenings in which to get some exercise then.

If I had children at home, my determination to do those things would increase, because their mental health would be even more important to me than my own.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras stop addressing me, you'll be calling bully again in five minutes!

I'm no longer interacting with you, I've made my feelings about your batshit views and self centred attitude known already!

You called bully on that and said I was goady, unlike you now??

For me there are multiple issues:

1. active play and exercise. It might be that posters with large gardens can achieve that at home but it’s much easier with walks, bike rides, playgrounds etc. If they’re getting enough exercise then it is horses for courses and their choice ultimately but I know I’ve found it much harder on days we’ve been at home all day.

2. interaction. Some people might be getting a fair bit of conversation with neighbours etc. My neighbours were all really good at talking to mine in the front garden but that has no patch on what a good nursery, holiday club or school provision can offer. Children need to play with peers. Nursery was vital to my 4yo’s happiness and if she hadn’t had access I’d have found ways for her to play with other children.

3. passing on anxiety to children. This for me is the big one. I suspect my mother would have been the hide away type had this happened 30 years ago. She was far too overprotective, said no to lots of things, didn’t encourage me to make the most of opportunities as a child. It was stifling.

This issues CAN and HAS killed healthy children and adults.
That's got to cause anxiety in normal healthy people.

Yes, but at the moment, unless you (general you) live in parts of Leicester or in a handful of places in Lancs and Yorks, your chances of catching it through going for a walk in your local area, are minuscule. Even if someone does pass by closer than two metres on a narrow pavement, you still have virtually zero chance of becoming infected. There is almost certainly a greater likelihood of you being injured in an accident in your home. The anxiety is out of all proportion to the risk currently to normally healthy people, and in some cases is likely to be damaging not just to the anxious person, but to their family.

Yes, possibly in the winter we will see an increase in infections and it might then be sensible to stay at home more. But that's all the more reason to take advantage of the opportunity now to get out and about, have a change of scene, reconnect with the world outside.

I still think that it's up to individual families as to how they manage this.

Agencies exist eg schools, GPS, health visitors even close family who could arrange intervention if they deem it necessary. I really disagree with distant friends feeling like they have permission to stage interventions on families that aren't living as they deem appropriate.

The op says she sees her friend a few times a year and messages on WhatsApp or chats on the phone - she just maybe isn't as close to her friend as she thinks she is and therefore doesn't have the full picture. The friend declining to meet op does not prove to me that the friend is not going out for walks with her children. It just proves that she's declining to meet with op.

Excellent post @LetitiaMartin

OP said that her friend's mother had spoken to her, and that now her friend is thinking about going out. So it was obviously worrying her friend's mother too.

@Kazzyhoward That's shocking! I hope he gets his treatment soon, it must be very worrying.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras the OP says that her friend has said that the children have not gone out and have only been in the house or the garden.

She could fob off the OP by saying she is not ready for meet ups if she doesn’t want to see the OP, even if she is meeting up with other people. But why would you tell someone that you have never taken the children out of the house since March if you have actually been out.

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras the OP says that her friend has said that the children have not gone out and have only been in the house or the garden.

She could fob off the OP by saying she is not ready for meet ups if she doesn’t want to see the OP, even if she is meeting up with other people. But why would you tell someone that you have never taken the children out of the house since March if you have actually been out.[/quote]
Because maybe op wouldn't take no for an answer? Pushing for meet ups in the garden, going for a walk or whatever, perhaps it was difficult to make polite excuses? Maybe they are only going out for walks but don't want to see op for some reason without saying "we don't want to see you", maybe they are shielding but don't want to disclose a private medical condition to op, maybe they haven't been going out at all. I still don't think it's up to op to force herself into this family and insist they do whatever it is that she thinks they should be doing. It just feels like massively over stepping the mark.

Would any of us accept a friend doing this to us? Is it only in regards to Covid or do some of you think that friends have the right to stage interventions for anything?

Unless they are shielding, this is child abuse. What a horrible situation for you OP x

But if you were concerned would you just leave them to it. This is where safeguarding comes in, and safeguarding is everyone’s concern not just teachers, social workers etc.

The OP was concerned that there might be a controlling issue with the friend’s husband. Do you just leave it and hope someone else will be there to pick up the pieces if necessary?

So true @SengaStrawberry !!! So true!!

@ineedaholidaynow

But if you were concerned would you just leave them to it. This is where safeguarding comes in, and safeguarding is everyone’s concern not just teachers, social workers etc.

The OP was concerned that there might be a controlling issue with the friend’s husband. Do you just leave it and hope someone else will be there to pick up the pieces if necessary?

What would I do? As long as I was certain that the children weren't being abused, or in danger of immediate harm (in which case I would be phoning SS or the NSPCC) I would keep making contact via phone, chatting to my friend and gently trying to find out how she felt.

Op has no right to have contact with this family. If she really pushes proved steps the mark the friend could rightfully tell her to get lost and make a complaint of harassment if she continues. How would that help anyone?

I've made polite excuses to "friends" before when we've not wanted to see them or do whatever it was they wanted to do. Ordinarily though we can claim a prior engagement. Now, people don't have that option and it's difficult to let someone down gently by making excuses isn't it? Maybe friend doesn't feel comfortable telling op that they don't want to see her and is trying to make an excuse? Maybe not. Maybe the really aren't going out but it's not been for very long - lockdown has only been in the process of being eased for a few weeks. There are clearly people much closer to the friend (her mum) who are keeping an eye on things.

What is your definition of abuse?

We are now at four days of not a single known case in my local authority, population 300,000.

And yet presumably there are families still hiding away at home, scared to go on a country walk or chat to a friend or relative outside from 2 metres away.

Even if someone in our region caught it tomorrow, the chances of anyone coming across that person in an area of over 700km sq (even assuming that person isn't staying home) is simply minute.

It's as though people have lost their ability to assess risk. Yes, despite that minimal risk, I wear a mask in shops and on public transport, and I maintain social distancing etc. But really, the chances of your children's mental health being ruined VASTLY exceeds the chance of them getting it, never mind dying of it.

And yet presumably there are families still hiding away at home, scared to go on a country walk or chat to a friend or relative outside from 2 metres away.

Slightly off topic but there are plenty of families who never take their children out on country walks, museum visits, on playdates etc.

@saraclara that's a great and solid post!!!

@ineedaholidaynow I'm not sure what you're referring to?

It's as though people have lost their ability to assess risk

Throughout this it’s been pretty obvious to me that some people just don’t have that ability. Remember all the threads where people got completely hysterical about dog walkers driving a short distance so they could exercise their dogs in empty fields? Now it’s masks.

The ability to look at evidence and assess individual risk seems to be in quite short supply. It needs to be part of the school curriculum.

@Carpetdweller

And yet presumably there are families still hiding away at home, scared to go on a country walk or chat to a friend or relative outside from 2 metres away.

Slightly off topic but there are plenty of families who never take their children out on country walks, museum visits, on playdates etc.

If there are plenty of families who don't allow their children to leave their property for four months (possibly being extended to 6-9 months) I find that unspeakably worrying.

6 children under 15 have died from Covid most of those have had underlying health issues, 20 people under the age of 20 have died. We really need to get a grip what risk is out there for our children.

@saraclara

We are now at four days of not a single known case in my local authority, population 300,000.

And yet presumably there are families still hiding away at home, scared to go on a country walk or chat to a friend or relative outside from 2 metres away.

Even if someone in our region caught it tomorrow, the chances of anyone coming across that person in an area of over 700km sq (even assuming that person isn't staying home) is simply minute.

It's as though people have lost their ability to assess risk. Yes, despite that minimal risk, I wear a mask in shops and on public transport, and I maintain social distancing etc. But really, the chances of your children's mental health being ruined VASTLY exceeds the chance of them getting it, never mind dying of it.

And I think many of the public have massively lost trust in government. They've mishandled this, fudged it and misled people. They've directly contradicted themselves and gone against their own advice. A few days of official figures isn't going to renew trust in the government. I think a lot of people are waiting to see for themselves what happens.

Even from purely practical perspective, within two days of pubs opening test and trace intervened and three pubs closed and customers were contacted. There's going to be lots of people reluctant to expose themselves to two weeks quarantine on SSP even if they aren't particularly worried about Covid.

There are many layers to this and to the worries that people will have. People could equally be judging those having meet ups and parties and socialising in bigger groups or with more people than are allowed. Not everyone is going to have the same ideas about coming out of this.

Carpetdweller But do these families never step out of their front door in 4+ months? That’s what we are discussing here.

@Alex50

6 children under 15 have died from Covid most of those have had underlying health issues, 20 people under the age of 20 have died. We really need to get a grip what risk is out there for our children.

But there are studies being published now suggesting that a children catch and spread Covid and another raising the potential of it to cause male infertility (which was a concern at the outset but is now being mentioned again).

So while the figures might show that children aren't dying from this do we know what potential long term complications there might be? I think it's entirely sensible to be cautious about this until more is known. What if Covid is as serious for adolescent boys as mumps is with regards to infertility?

*But there are studies being published now suggesting that a children catch and spread Covid and another raising the potential of it to cause male infertility (which was a concern at the outset but is now being mentioned again).

So while the figures might show that children aren't dying from this do we know what potential long term complications there might be? I think it's entirely sensible to be cautious about this until more is known. What if Covid is as serious for adolescent boys as mumps is with regards to infertility?*