To ask people to show a little more understanding to those not wearing masks

[Fuckinellitsme]

Apologies for another mask thread.

First of all, I'm not an 'anti masker', I absolutely see the need and the importance of wearing them. I'm unable to wear one myself - I have trigeminal neuralgia and when I've tried to wear one, the resulting attack has left me bedbound for days. I want to wear one, but I can't. I also have rheumatoid arthritis so I'm incredibly grateful to all the people who do wear masks, therefore protecting others and especially those in higher risk groups (though not vulnerable enough to be shielding) like me.

However. I've seen some truly awful comments on here in the last few days directed at those who don't wear masks. We should be treated like lepers if we enter a shop without one, for example, or should be banned from them outright. And we ought to stay at home if we are exempt, not use public transport or go shopping or go to work. We have 'made up' health issues and disabilities and are 'woe is me' 'snowflakes'. I've also encountered bus passengers passing comment and tutting about my lack of mask.

Those of us who can't wear a mask (and are acting within the law/guidelines, being exempt) still need to go about our business. It would be lovely if we could do so without fear of comment or judgement. I understand that there will be those who don't wear a mask because they just don't want to - however, please, if you see someone without a mask (particularly if they're wearing a sunflower/exempt lanyard) try to be understanding and give them the benefit of the doubt.

The nastiness and ableist comments on here (and elsewhere) in the past few days have been genuinely upsetting for those of us unable to wear masks. Please don't assume we're all stupid/selfish/conspiracy theorists/don't care about your health, or that it's a choice. For many, choice doesn't come into it.

A bit of empathy goes a long way, especially in these weird times.

@CommitteeOffender

There are no roles that aren't customer facing and they aren't allowing any more time off work. My choices are to go back or leave. So, is that ok then? Is it ok for disabled people to be forced out of work?

It's not OK, but neither is it OK for other disabled people to be prevented from accessing your place of work because of their disability. It's not OK for your employer to lose money by turning those people away and potentially put your own and other people's jobs at risk because the economy is in crisis right now. Ultimately horrible choices are sometimes unavoidable.

So who decides who makes the sacrifices then? Why should it be person A rather than person B? Who decides?

Wearing a lanyard wouldn’t stop some people. For one the sunflower rainbow is widely available to get so it won’t prove anything I have already seen people saying they will wear one just because they don’t like masks.

Even if it was something official idiots would still feel it their role to question it. Just like they do when they see a Mother and young child park in a disabled bay with a blue badge but still challenge their right to be there!

Also, are some people on this thread saying that people shouldn't be going out without a mask even if the reason for being unable to wear one is disability?

No. It's asking that I'm not made to divulge my medical history (regarding a condition very few people have heard of, much less understand) to strangers on a bus who, by virtue of the fact they've asked a stranger such a question, aren't likely to be reasonable people. I'm asking that people do not tut or comment and instead offer those without masks the benefit of the doubt.

I've said time and again that I will provide proof to those in authority if and when it becomes required in law to do so. I will not be explaining my medical history to anyone who asks.

So who decides who makes the sacrifices then? Why should it be person A rather than person B? Who decides?

In this instance, the government, which has rightly kept in place the Equality Act 2010.

@SqidgeBum

As far as I am concerned you should only be allowed not wear one if you have a doctors letter, and that would need to be presented when entering a shop or a bus. Therefore anyone who didnt wear one would have proof of their reason not to have one and the judgement would go because you would know if someone wasnt wearing one that the reason was a real reason.

My judgement would come from the assumption that you are a person who simply doesnt want to wear one. It's a bit if a kick in the teeth when I am someone who STILL hasn't seen my family because of lockdown. We all made and continue to make sacrifices for the greater good, and someone just moaning and making up reasons that they cant wear a mask just seems ridiculous to me. So until actual enforcement comes in where proof is needed, those judgements will stay unfortunately. If I knew that to not wear one you had to have a valid medical cert, I would have no judgement.

A persons medical conditions are nobody elses business. What hives you or any other random person the right to decide someone has a condition valid enough to warrent not wearing a mask?

And how on earth do you suppose Drs are going to write out a personal letter for every one with a hidden disability? Many Drs charge up to £50 for a letter. Even £20 might be beyond someone's means. Are they to be left out and abused?

And judging by many posts on here lately nothing would be "a good enough reason" and they would still vilify the person concerned.

There has to be something that you can show to indicate that you are excused a mask.

Otherwise I am looking down the barrel of Hell, standing inside my shop, behind the till and telling all the customers trying to enter without a mask, that they can't come in.

We've had enough abuse just trying to make them queue, come in in ones and twos, use a trolley, not touch everything they can see, use the one way system... masks are just going to be another stick they use to beat us with.

@gutentag1

The people criticising are obviously not referring to those who cannot wear masks for medical reasons. You should not need a disclaimer on every post, it goes without saying. Try to focus on the bigger issue instead of taking offence when there is none.

They are. I've been told on MN in the last few days that I'm making up my disease, that I'm not trying hard enough to find a solution, that people think people like me are selfish and that we should be treated like lepers.

Please don't tell disabled people to stop taking offence at outright ableism.

I'm with you OP. I can wear a mask and do so. However I don't feel it necessary to publicly humiliate and intimidate those who don't. Nor do I feel it necessary to buy novelty masks, post memes and articles and start preaching about it on social media as if I were the chief medical officer. I have a simple plain black one, pop it on if I'm in a shop and that's it, I really couldn't care less what others do, that's there business.

@Mascotte

Also, are some people on this thread saying that people shouldn't be going out without a mask even if the reason for being unable to wear one is disability?

Yes, unfortunately.

@CommitteeOffender

So who decides who makes the sacrifices then? Why should it be person A rather than person B? Who decides?

In this instance, the government, which has rightly kept in place the Equality Act 2010.

Yes, but I'm covered under the Equality Act yet it's still being said on here that I should give up work or not use public transport in order for other people with conditions that prevent them from wearing masks be accommodated if their condition clashes with mine. So, person A and person B are both covered by the Equality Act - who has to give way?

Nothing you are asking for is unreasonable, @Fuckinellitsme. Your medical history is YOUR business, not anyone else's.

Many people will indeed look at you without a mask (if they notice at all) and surmise that you must have a good reason for not wearing one, decide it's none of their business and get on with their life.

But there are a minority of total arses who will be challenging people. Very scary that a lot of posters seem to think that's OK.

As far as I am concerned you should only be allowed not wear one if you have a doctors letter, and that would need to be presented when entering a shop or a bus. Therefore anyone who didnt wear one would have proof of their reason not to have one and the judgement would go because you would know if someone wasnt wearing one that the reason was a real reason.

Who fancies waiting for ever at every bus stop while the driver laboriously reads every letter and decides whether the reasons given are valid, and has a stimulating argument if he thinks they are? How is the driver going to be able to tell whether the letter is forged or not?

@Zaphodsotherhead

There has to be something that you can show to indicate that you are excused a mask.

Otherwise I am looking down the barrel of Hell, standing inside my shop, behind the till and telling all the customers trying to enter without a mask, that they can't come in.

We've had enough abuse just trying to make them queue, come in in ones and twos, use a trolley, not touch everything they can see, use the one way system... masks are just going to be another stick they use to beat us with.

There isn't, and the government have said proof isn't required.

I feel for you, it must be a nightmare. I understand your predicament, particularly given the fact that the police have said they don't have the numbers to enforce it.

OP thank you for the education on trigeminal neuralgia. It sounds like a horiffic condition to live with and clearly is.

Why do blue badges exist then? Why should a person with a disability have to have a badge to prove they are eligible for a disabled parking space?

Well as the mother of a child with a heart condition you'll understand why, if you're not wearing a mask on a bus, I take the decision to move away from you. There are too many people on social media at the moment saying 'well, I'm not wearing one' to trust that everyone who doesn't wear a mask is exempt because of a disability. And I'm afraid I'm not putting my son's health at risk by accepting that everyone who isn't wearing a mask has a good reason for not doing so. Especially if it isn't considered polite to ask why. So I'll move away.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras bus passes are issued by your local authority (TfL in London though, I think - I could be wrong). You need proof in the form of a letter from your GP/consultant. Mine has been a lifesaver and I really mean that.

Google 'concessionary disabled bus pass' and your local authority and you should be able to find an application form.

I have a simple plain black one, pop it on if I'm in a shop and that's it, I really couldn't care less what others do, that's there business.

Actually, Normandy144, it is not “their business”. Those without masks, for whatever reason, risk infecting others.

I have inflammatory arthritis caused by Crohn's disease but don't get mobility allowance etc

One of my best friends has Crohn's with associated inflammatory arthritis. He didn't even get a shielding letter and is now working (he's a decorater so in and out of other people's houses).

If you personally are truly at that much risk that someone else not wearing a mask is putting you in danger of death, then I suggest you invest in masks with proper filtration and keep yourself safe that way. The reality is that risk can be mimimised but not eliminated, so you have to take some responsiblity for keeping yourself safe, as you simply don't control over the behaviour of others, only your own behaviour.

Yes, but I'm covered under the Equality Act yet it's still being said on here that I should give up work or not use public transport in order for other people with conditions that prevent them from wearing masks be accommodated if their condition clashes with mine. So, person A and person B are both covered by the Equality Act - who has to give way?

Ultimately it's a numbers game. If there is really no other post your employer can put you in that keeps you away from the public, he has to weigh up the risks. If Person A is protected by the Equality Act, but his rights are in conflict with those of Persons B-Z multiplied, who are also protected by the Act, then B-Z multiplied are likely to win. It's a duty to make reasonable adjustments, not any and every adjustment. Ultimately, bearing in mind that turning away customers and getting prosecuted for discrimination are all bad for the employer's income, he's entitled to say that he can't protect your rights if it means discriminating against others and his business going under putting you and everyone else out of work.

[quote Fuckinellitsme]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras bus passes are issued by your local authority (TfL in London though, I think - I could be wrong). You need proof in the form of a letter from your GP/consultant. Mine has been a lifesaver and I really mean that.

Google 'concessionary disabled bus pass' and your local authority and you should be able to find an application form.[/quote]
I've just looked. According to the info you have to be unable to walk or walking should be a threat to your life. You should have DLA or 8 points on the mobility section of PIP. None of that applies to me. I can walk and I don't claim DLA or PIP.

@LondonJax

Well as the mother of a child with a heart condition you'll understand why, if you're not wearing a mask on a bus, I take the decision to move away from you. There are too many people on social media at the moment saying 'well, I'm not wearing one' to trust that everyone who doesn't wear a mask is exempt because of a disability. And I'm afraid I'm not putting my son's health at risk by accepting that everyone who isn't wearing a mask has a good reason for not doing so. Especially if it isn't considered polite to ask why. So I'll move away.

Of course you can take hat decision - I wouldn't be offended in the slightest. I would not be sitting too close to you anyway - if the bus was full, I'd wait for the next one.

All I ask is that you try to accept that most people wearing a mask have a good reason for not doing so, and do not judge us.

I'm sorry your son is so unwell, it must be awful for you, particularly at the moment

I don't claim benefits either. Perhaps it's different in your area? I was granted mine 8 years ago so perhaps it's changed.

@Pobblebonk

Yes, but I'm covered under the Equality Act yet it's still being said on here that I should give up work or not use public transport in order for other people with conditions that prevent them from wearing masks be accommodated if their condition clashes with mine. So, person A and person B are both covered by the Equality Act - who has to give way?

Ultimately it's a numbers game. If there is really no other post your employer can put you in that keeps you away from the public, he has to weigh up the risks. If Person A is protected by the Equality Act, but his rights are in conflict with those of Persons B-Z multiplied, who are also protected by the Act, then B-Z multiplied are likely to win. It's a duty to make reasonable adjustments, not any and every adjustment. Ultimately, bearing in mind that turning away customers and getting prosecuted for discrimination are all bad for the employer's income, he's entitled to say that he can't protect your rights if it means discriminating against others and his business going under putting you and everyone else out of work.

But in this case there is no proof that people B - Z actually are covered by the Equality Act because no one is allowed to ask. So person A, who is able and willing to.prove that they are covered by the Equality Act could be discriminated against in favour of people C - Z who aren't? Seems like a discrimination charter really. That's a great way for employers to get rid of disabled employees isn't it?