To ask people to show a little more understanding to those not wearing masks

[Fuckinellitsme]

Apologies for another mask thread.

First of all, I'm not an 'anti masker', I absolutely see the need and the importance of wearing them. I'm unable to wear one myself - I have trigeminal neuralgia and when I've tried to wear one, the resulting attack has left me bedbound for days. I want to wear one, but I can't. I also have rheumatoid arthritis so I'm incredibly grateful to all the people who do wear masks, therefore protecting others and especially those in higher risk groups (though not vulnerable enough to be shielding) like me.

However. I've seen some truly awful comments on here in the last few days directed at those who don't wear masks. We should be treated like lepers if we enter a shop without one, for example, or should be banned from them outright. And we ought to stay at home if we are exempt, not use public transport or go shopping or go to work. We have 'made up' health issues and disabilities and are 'woe is me' 'snowflakes'. I've also encountered bus passengers passing comment and tutting about my lack of mask.

Those of us who can't wear a mask (and are acting within the law/guidelines, being exempt) still need to go about our business. It would be lovely if we could do so without fear of comment or judgement. I understand that there will be those who don't wear a mask because they just don't want to - however, please, if you see someone without a mask (particularly if they're wearing a sunflower/exempt lanyard) try to be understanding and give them the benefit of the doubt.

The nastiness and ableist comments on here (and elsewhere) in the past few days have been genuinely upsetting for those of us unable to wear masks. Please don't assume we're all stupid/selfish/conspiracy theorists/don't care about your health, or that it's a choice. For many, choice doesn't come into it.

A bit of empathy goes a long way, especially in these weird times.

@GreytExpectations

The issue is more people who don't wear the mask will likly be selfish idiots who just don't want to. The ones with an actual medical reason for exemption will be the minority. People are going to be anxious, it's a virus that's spread very fast and is still very unknown. Our country is lifting some lockdown restrictions very quickly because they need the economy back up and running, but the figures for cases still aren't low. Therefore, the wearing of masks while isn't a gurentee is a big step in reducing the infection cases and allowing the country to start going back to normal.

With this in mind we should be all working together to protect each other and minimise the spread. Yes, there are legit reasons some can't wear a mask and yes, there will be people taking the piss and refusing to not wear them for non legitimate reasons. It'd be nice for the ones who can't wear them to be willing to try various options, and if those fail then be willing to use a lanyard or a card as we all deserve reasurrance when our health is being at risk. Right now, all I'm seeing if a "Me, me, me" attitude across all people for their reasons for not wanting or not being able to wear one. Instead of actually looking into solutions.

Random thought, but if a thin scarf loosly draped around your mouth and nose (this can be allowed as a face covering) causes extreme pain, how do you get dressed and pull tops over your head and face every day? Are you able to cough and sneeze without pain? Or even lightly brush you face with your own hair? What happens if you have to be in hospital for any reason and given an oxygen mask? I'm just curious of the practicalities of this disability because its not a very known one.

I've discussed this with you on other threads and as I've told you there, attacks have been triggered by me getting dressed, brushing my teeth/hair, eating, sneezing, coughing, a light breeze, my hair touching my face, putting on makeup... All these and more, and also, nothing at all. I can go months without an attack and then have thousands in a day. All of which is accompanied by a pretty much constant burning sensation in my mouth/face which never wholly dies down.

I've outlined treatments etc elsewhere on this thread but in a nutshell they include anti epilepsy drugs and brain surgery.

There's lots more information about it if you Google NHS trigeminal neuralgia.

"So how do we all come together and support each other? How do I deal with a fellow passenger who sits next to me, not wearing a mask or shuts all the windows if no one will challenge them, including the driver? That's excluding people like me from public transport effectively. How is that not discrimination?"

How is it discrimination for nobody to challenge them? Can't you challenge them? Why is the onus on other passengers to challenge dangerous behaviour? Unless transport services are going to start placing enforcement agents on every service to boot out the idiots, what is anybody else supposed to do?

Why can't you simply ask the person why they're not wearing a mask?

Employers don't have to keep employees on if the employee refuses to attend work despite reasonable adjustments having been made.

@WhatCFeryIsThis

I was going to ask zebras to please point me to where the OP has once asked anybody to accommodate her. However I can see that's been asked multiple times and there's been no answer.

Is anybody else able to guide me to where the OP has asked for people to accommodate her?

What do you mean? The op can't wear a mask and so has asked that no one ask her about it or pass comments on her not wearing one if she's in a place were one is legally required. That's accommodating her isn't it?

i have no problem with genuine medical exemptions like yours

its mainly the twitterati like yesterdays #nomask campaig becase its agains theyre human rights im bothered about-but because no proof is needed anyone can say theyre exempt when theyre not

The shielded have been protected by shielding. We haven't been protected by anyone. We've protected ourselves by shielding. Your claim is totally false. You all were protecting everyone else who was out and about and you protected the NHS. You absolutely did not protect me or anyone else shielding. I protected my self by locking myself away for four months.

So what about people who made that possible? The people who produced food, power, internet services, delivered things to you, offered entertainment, cleared your rubbish, sorted out your sewage, etc etc? Did they have no role at all?

@WitsEnding

On both of my recent bus drivers there has been one (different) male passenger who removed his mask on sitting down, then got up and closed all the windows.

Excuse me if in those circumstances I do object strongly. The bus driver made no comment, and we all sat and watched as the second offender pissed through the fence at his bus stop into a school playing field. (This was about 5:30 pm in a more expensive part of town... I won’t blame tourists as he wasn’t one, and all the local toilets are open).

If you think that people don’t need to be able to prove their exemption to oblige others to comply you are being very naive.

Proving my exemption to he bus driver is fine, if it were required or possible, which it isn't. Proving my exemption to other passengers who may judge me for not wearing a mask is not.

That’s exactly why we shouldn’t bully and harass people who aren’t wearing them, you don’t know.

There really needs to be a lanyard or something which signals to people that you are exempt

@MaxNormal

So someone else with a different disability can demand that they are put first?

The guidance is clear. Anyone who can must wear a mask, anyone who cannot is exempt. You demanding that those who cannot, wear one anyway, is out of order and yes attempting to pur yourself first at their expense.

But everyone can claim exemption without having to prove it. Also, someone else's inability to wear one, even when due to a disability, could put my life in danger due to a disability. So, they're putting themselves first at my expense then?

@WhatCFeryIsThis

"So how do we all come together and support each other? How do I deal with a fellow passenger who sits next to me, not wearing a mask or shuts all the windows if no one will challenge them, including the driver? That's excluding people like me from public transport effectively. How is that not discrimination?"

How is it discrimination for nobody to challenge them? Can't you challenge them? Why is the onus on other passengers to challenge dangerous behaviour? Unless transport services are going to start placing enforcement agents on every service to boot out the idiots, what is anybody else supposed to do?

Why can't you simply ask the person why they're not wearing a mask?

People on this thread are saying no one must challenge anyone not wearing a mask

I can't see masks being more enforced in shops than on public transport (not enforced at all in my part of London). No-one says anything but if someone isn't wearing a mask you can make the choice to move away. It's the same in a shop.

What is infuriating is the number of people who insist they can't wear a mask. It's unfair on those like the OP who really are not able to that some people who might be able to do it, even if it's difficult, won't try.

The people criticising are obviously not referring to those who cannot wear masks for medical reasons. You should not need a disclaimer on every post, it goes without saying. Try to focus on the bigger issue instead of taking offence when there is none.

OP maybe you can look into creative options like a visor or shield supported up from your shoulders

It’s not your place to challenge people.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras do you not have a disabled bus pass? You mention having to pay for the bus several times over if you need to change buses. Given your health issues I'm surprised you don't have one?

I have one (granted originally for my rheumatoid arthritis). I've had to get off buses and wait for another in the past, notably when the pandemic started and social distancing wasn't so ingrained, and buses got busy. On occasion I did so with heavy shopping and a walking stick. You just do what you have to do, don't you. I'll do the same now, if a bus gets busy when I'm on it, especially as I can't wear a mask.

A pass will mean you won't have to pay for your journeys.

The few people who are really vulnerable should find better protection than fabric masks or medical masks.
In riskier situations, you should be wearing higher grade masks that can protect you. And you can add face shields when wearking weaker masks to protect you from droplets from other people around you.
Discuss it with your employer and your doctor

I know people who literally have had to leave their jobs and eat separately from other people because their immune system is shut down.
It's shit, but nobody until now forced everyone to wear masks outside their homes to protect them.

Now, it's about risk management and most of us simply don't know what happens if they get infected. You may be more vulnerable but I simply have no idea how my body would react to the infection.

So what about people who made that possible? The people who produced food, power, internet services, delivered things to you, offered entertainment, cleared your rubbish, sorted out your sewage, etc etc? Did they have no role at all?

My husband was one of those people. Those services were provided to everyone, not specifically to those shielding. The point made was that people have sacrificed for four months in order to protect those who are shielding - no one has sacrificed to protect the shielded.

Key workers, my husband and son included, have put themselves at risk for the benefit of everyone in the country. No one has sacrificed for me or anyone else shielding.

I totally agree with you.

Some people cannot wear masks and really who is anyone else to judge anyway. Walk on by rather than snotty comments should be the way of the world.

There are no roles that aren't customer facing and they aren't allowing any more time off work. My choices are to go back or leave. So, is that ok then? Is it ok for disabled people to be forced out of work?

It's not OK, but neither is it OK for other disabled people to be prevented from accessing your place of work because of their disability. It's not OK for your employer to lose money by turning those people away and potentially put your own and other people's jobs at risk because the economy is in crisis right now. Ultimately horrible choices are sometimes unavoidable.

[quote Fuckinellitsme]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras do you not have a disabled bus pass? You mention having to pay for the bus several times over if you need to change buses. Given your health issues I'm surprised you don't have one?

I have one (granted originally for my rheumatoid arthritis). I've had to get off buses and wait for another in the past, notably when the pandemic started and social distancing wasn't so ingrained, and buses got busy. On occasion I did so with heavy shopping and a walking stick. You just do what you have to do, don't you. I'll do the same now, if a bus gets busy when I'm on it, especially as I can't wear a mask.

A pass will mean you won't have to pay for your journeys.[/quote]
No, I don't have a bus pass. I didn't even know they existed. I don't claim any benefits though. Does that make a difference? I have inflammatory arthritis caused by Crohn's disease but don't get mobility allowance etc

YADNBU OP

I have friends who have morphed into the mask police - they're judgemental as fuck about this and I'm constantly reminding them that they don't know what's going on with other people so to back off.

You can't wear a mask or shield. You are not obliged to explain yourself to randomers who repeat 'for the greater good' as though they're auditioning for Hot Fuzz

I could be wrong, but I’m sure most sane people have no issue with people who are exempt from wearing them. The real idiots are the ones bleating on about their freedoms, who just don’t like being told what to do.

@tabernacles

I don't agree that people should rely on lanyards/cards to decide whether to take someone's exemption seriously or not. That leads to a two tier system where people with one (who could still be lying anyway; you can't stop non-exempt people from using them) are grudgingly allowed on/in, and others without them are refused entry or harassed.

We also shouldn't have to label ourselves like that - it'll be yellow stars next.

Just assume people not wearing them can't. The vast majority of people are using them on buses now, after a slow start, and the same will no doubt happen in shops after a few weeks to get used to it.

So don't make it more stressful and difficult to access society for people who are already marginalised.

I agree with everything you say.

The attempt to other disabled people on this thread and others like it is astounding.

I don't mind providing proof to authorities if and when that becomes necessary. But I don't particularly want to advertise my condition to all and sundry. I just wish that people could understand and accept that the person on the bus or in the supermarket not wearing a mask is probably doing so because they can't, rather than immediately thinking they're selfish etc.

I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea of disabled people being 'marked', especially given the bile directed at us as evidenced by some posters on this thread, in the media and in general. Disabled people have been pilloried since time immemorial and this is beginning to feel like a new way of doing so. It's the new 'lazy benefit frauds' thing.

@WhatCFeryIsThis

"So how do we all come together and support each other? How do I deal with a fellow passenger who sits next to me, not wearing a mask or shuts all the windows if no one will challenge them, including the driver? That's excluding people like me from public transport effectively. How is that not discrimination?"

How is it discrimination for nobody to challenge them? Can't you challenge them? Why is the onus on other passengers to challenge dangerous behaviour? Unless transport services are going to start placing enforcement agents on every service to boot out the idiots, what is anybody else supposed to do?

Why can't you simply ask the person why they're not wearing a mask?

Because they probably have no wish to discuss their private medical history with you, a stranger, on a crowded bus. Because there might be a deeply personal and distressing reason why they can't wear a mask. Because, in truth, and as they're acting within the law, it's none of your business.