To ask people to show a little more understanding to those not wearing masks

[Fuckinellitsme]

Apologies for another mask thread.

First of all, I'm not an 'anti masker', I absolutely see the need and the importance of wearing them. I'm unable to wear one myself - I have trigeminal neuralgia and when I've tried to wear one, the resulting attack has left me bedbound for days. I want to wear one, but I can't. I also have rheumatoid arthritis so I'm incredibly grateful to all the people who do wear masks, therefore protecting others and especially those in higher risk groups (though not vulnerable enough to be shielding) like me.

However. I've seen some truly awful comments on here in the last few days directed at those who don't wear masks. We should be treated like lepers if we enter a shop without one, for example, or should be banned from them outright. And we ought to stay at home if we are exempt, not use public transport or go shopping or go to work. We have 'made up' health issues and disabilities and are 'woe is me' 'snowflakes'. I've also encountered bus passengers passing comment and tutting about my lack of mask.

Those of us who can't wear a mask (and are acting within the law/guidelines, being exempt) still need to go about our business. It would be lovely if we could do so without fear of comment or judgement. I understand that there will be those who don't wear a mask because they just don't want to - however, please, if you see someone without a mask (particularly if they're wearing a sunflower/exempt lanyard) try to be understanding and give them the benefit of the doubt.

The nastiness and ableist comments on here (and elsewhere) in the past few days have been genuinely upsetting for those of us unable to wear masks. Please don't assume we're all stupid/selfish/conspiracy theorists/don't care about your health, or that it's a choice. For many, choice doesn't come into it.

A bit of empathy goes a long way, especially in these weird times.

Expensive part of town 😂😂

... don’t know where the random ‘drivers’ came from. Predictive text? Sorry.

The problem with exemptions is that unless there's an official card sort of thing people will abuse it. Noticeably on the train young people were the ones not wearing masks (16-30 year olds approx) they couldn't all have medical reasons. I struggle to wear one because they steam up my glasses, no online guides seem to acknowledge making masks for glasses wearers! I have neurofibromialgia and elastic behind the ears is agony but I can wear a silk scarf (steaming aside)

@MaxNormal

Hearhoovesthinkzebras I hate to break it to you but not everything in the entire universe revolves around you. You clearly need to put yourself first. What you don't have the right to do, is selfishly demand that everyone else puts you first too, no matter what their personal circumstances, needs, disabilities etc are.

So someone else with a different disability can demand that they are put first?

That's my question. Op can't wear a mask because of her disability and asks that everyone accommodates her.

I, and everyone else who has been shielding, need everyone to wear a mask for our disabilities.

How can you accuse me of being selfish by asking for my disability to be accommodated but you aren't accusing the op of being selfish by asking for her disability to be accommodated?

@StealthPolarBear

Does this condition also mean you can't sneeze or cough into a tissue? Potentially could be very dangerous

Who is that directed at?

Yes, Point being I’m not extrapolating from the behaviour of the substance abusers I come into contact with in my key role, because there’s no concept of social distancing there. 😷

[quote LangClegsInSpace]I think the issue is that it is stated that you are exempt from wearing a mask “if you have a disability.” Now. There are certain medical conditions which would make a mask impossible, but not every disability and I have one.

No, this is not the case:

You do not need to wear a face covering if you have a legitimate reason not to. This includes:

- young children under the age of 11
- not being able to put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability
- if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress
- if you are travelling with or providing assistance to someone who relies on lip reading to communicate
- to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others
- to avoid injury, or to escape a risk of harm, and you do not have a face covering with you
- to eat or drink, but only if you need to
- to take medication
- if a police officer or other official requests you remove your face covering

There are also scenarios when you are permitted to remove a face covering when asked:

- If asked to do so by shop staff for the purpose of age identification
- If speaking with people who rely on lip reading, facial expressions and clear sound. Some may ask you, either verbally or in writing, to remove a covering to help with communication

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#exemptions-to-wearing-a-face-covering-where-they-are-mandated[/quote]
Going by that list then pretty much anyone who wants to can claim exemption from wearing a mask.

It does sound very difficult. I didn’t know about TN, very hard.

This really shouldn't be an issue between those who really can't wear masks and those who need others to wear masks.
The fact is that they should rarely come together. And if they find themselves in the same place, then they should be able to keep enough distance with some good will.

The real problem are those who don't care and refuse to wear masks because they don't want to.
Either way, those not wearing masks should be made to ensure they stick to other guidelines.
Closing the windows on a bus shoild have been enough to getting someone out, but it's understandable that drivers don't want to risk being attacked.

@Fuckinellitsme - you probably won't persuade people who don't want to be persuaded. You are doing all you can and you are trying to raise awareness about those that are exempt.
I struggle with a mask and have purchased a face shield so hopefully most people who struggle will do the same which means there will only be a small number be unable to do anything. That would mean most people will be protected.
Good luck and I hope you don't get any unpleasantness.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

If you take public transport, then it's your responsibility to take whatever steps possible to protect yourself.

But there are no steps you can take to protect yourself on a bus. On a train you suggested changing carriages every five minutes. How about on a bus? A Chinese study showed that passengers on the same bus contracted Covid from one infected passenger, not from proximity but just by airflow, so even staying two meters apart or not touching your face does not offer protection. What can I do to protect myself on a bus? Or on a train if a person sitting next to me sneezes or coughs?

There are steps you (and I) can take.

Sit as far away from other passengers as possible, open the windows, don't touch handrails.

Most bus companies now have apps and they have a system which shows how busy buses are in real time, so you can make an informed decision as to whether you want to get the bus that's coming or wait for the next one. Here's my local app - the bus numbers in red are busy, amber moderately so and green are quiet. I always make sure I get 'green' buses.

I, and everyone else who has been shielding, need everyone to wear a mask for our disabilities.

Ah I see. it's disability Top Trumps.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras are you in a union? DH is a union rep and he tells me that you cannot be forced out of your job because of a disability, or your inability to work if you need to shield.

@Rhine

I’ve not seen anyone on here say people who can’t wear masks are just making up their health conditions. Nor have I seen them called ‘snowflakes’. I have seen a lot of anger directed of people who just don’t want to wear them though.

Personally if I had an autoimmune condition I wouldn’t be getting on public transport at all. Nor would I be visiting shops and supermarkets at busy times. But that’s just me.

Have you just not read many threads on masks? The vitriol directed at people who cannot wear them for valid reasons has been horrific at times. The stazis have found a new "stay the fuck at home" and are out to bully and vilify anyone they deem "not sticking to my rules". There is hardly a shred of empathy for people who have to go about thier business as they need to work to survive but cannot wear a mask for innumerable reasons. Victims of horrendous sexual violence who cannot now cover thier faces, being to to get a grip and get over themselves or stay at hone forever. Mn is a truly shameful place just now.

Btw you do know that there are many different autoimmune conditions don't you?
I have one and it's nothing to do with my ability to fight off a virus. Absolutely no reason i should not go out.

What happens if you have to be in hospital for any reason and given an oxygen mask?

Obviously not the OP, but I would decline any treatment requiring a mask. When I was very ill in March with breathing issues, horrendous cough etc, I was very clear to dh that at no point would I consent to a ventilator. Don't you get that due to our issues with masks, some of us would rather die than have lifesaving treatment involving one. I also can't have blood transfusions and was fine with the risk of dying should I have bled heavily during both my emergency sections.

For the record, I had another attempt at desensitization last night. It didn't go well. Got around 30 minutes sleep because I woke up screaming because someone was suffocating me.

then be willing to use a lanyard or a card as we all deserve reasurrance when our health is being at risk

Given anyone can access those things, I still don't understand why you think it's at all reassuring. Even a letter from my Consultant only proves I have Ptsd, not that I'm covid free.

@Lweji

This really shouldn't be an issue between those who really can't wear masks and those who need others to wear masks. The fact is that they should rarely come together. And if they find themselves in the same place, then they should be able to keep enough distance with some good will.

The real problem are those who don't care and refuse to wear masks because they don't want to.
Either way, those not wearing masks should be made to ensure they stick to other guidelines.
Closing the windows on a bus shoild have been enough to getting someone out, but it's understandable that drivers don't want to risk being attacked.

The problem is no one is going to know who is who.

No one on a bus, or when I'm at work, is going to know that I'm extremely vulnerable and need them to stay away from me, wear a mask, keep the window open, social distance. I'm not going to know that they aren't wearing a mask for a medical reason.

So how do we all come together and support each other? How do I deal with a fellow passenger who sits next to me, not wearing a mask or shuts all the windows if no one will challenge them, including the driver? That's excluding people like me from public transport effectively. How is that not discrimination? How are we meant to get to work or to hospital appointments? We are effectively being excluded from society.

Many of the responses on this thread really make me question whether I really want to protect a lot of the public, given the horrible and sanctimonious views expressed by many.

And yes, I do wear a face covering and feel terrible for people like the OP. I'll just leave this here.

I was going to ask zebras to please point me to where the OP has once asked anybody to accommodate her. However I can see that's been asked multiple times and there's been no answer.

Is anybody else able to guide me to where the OP has asked for people to accommodate her?

Sounds awful @Dinosauratemydaffodils

In the Asian countries that have previous experience of SARS and Avian flu I doubt there are exemptions as they don’t have a choice. Which is why, overall, they’ve done better at containing C-19.

And haven't done well in terms of other conditions, not least mental health conditions. There are definitely risks that are as great as or greater than Covid 19, and every civilised country has to recognise that. We really don't have to model ourselves on absolutist repressive regimes.

At some point, even the vulnerable people will need to take some risk.
We can't make society risk free of covid-19 or other infecious diseases that could kill you too.

As masks become more common and more people wear them, and numbers are down, the odd person not wearing a mask in a enclosed space at a reasonable distance won't pose a significant risk. In fact, the risk will be small.

I don't agree that people should rely on lanyards/cards to decide whether to take someone's exemption seriously or not. That leads to a two tier system where people with one (who could still be lying anyway; you can't stop non-exempt people from using them) are grudgingly allowed on/in, and others without them are refused entry or harassed.

We also shouldn't have to label ourselves like that - it'll be yellow stars next.

Just assume people not wearing them can't. The vast majority of people are using them on buses now, after a slow start, and the same will no doubt happen in shops after a few weeks to get used to it.

So don't make it more stressful and difficult to access society for people who are already marginalised.

[quote Fuckinellitsme]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras are you in a union? DH is a union rep and he tells me that you cannot be forced out of your job because of a disability, or your inability to work if you need to shield.[/quote]
I am in a union and that simply isn't true. Your employer does not have to keep you employed if you are unable to do your job. They have to consider reasonable adjustments but if none can be made or if after all reasonable adjustments that can be made have been made, you still can't do your job they can dismiss you. I've checked with ACAS.

How do I deal with a fellow passenger who sits next to me, not wearing a mask or shuts all the windows if no one will challenge them, including the driver? That's excluding people like me from public transport effectively. How is that not discrimination? How are we meant to get to work or to hospital appointments? We are effectively being excluded from society.

In how many buses does that happen?

So someone else with a different disability can demand that they are put first?

The guidance is clear. Anyone who can must wear a mask, anyone who cannot is exempt. You demanding that those who cannot, wear one anyway, is out of order and yes attempting to pur yourself first at their expense.