To ask people to show a little more understanding to those not wearing masks

[Fuckinellitsme]

Apologies for another mask thread.

First of all, I'm not an 'anti masker', I absolutely see the need and the importance of wearing them. I'm unable to wear one myself - I have trigeminal neuralgia and when I've tried to wear one, the resulting attack has left me bedbound for days. I want to wear one, but I can't. I also have rheumatoid arthritis so I'm incredibly grateful to all the people who do wear masks, therefore protecting others and especially those in higher risk groups (though not vulnerable enough to be shielding) like me.

However. I've seen some truly awful comments on here in the last few days directed at those who don't wear masks. We should be treated like lepers if we enter a shop without one, for example, or should be banned from them outright. And we ought to stay at home if we are exempt, not use public transport or go shopping or go to work. We have 'made up' health issues and disabilities and are 'woe is me' 'snowflakes'. I've also encountered bus passengers passing comment and tutting about my lack of mask.

Those of us who can't wear a mask (and are acting within the law/guidelines, being exempt) still need to go about our business. It would be lovely if we could do so without fear of comment or judgement. I understand that there will be those who don't wear a mask because they just don't want to - however, please, if you see someone without a mask (particularly if they're wearing a sunflower/exempt lanyard) try to be understanding and give them the benefit of the doubt.

The nastiness and ableist comments on here (and elsewhere) in the past few days have been genuinely upsetting for those of us unable to wear masks. Please don't assume we're all stupid/selfish/conspiracy theorists/don't care about your health, or that it's a choice. For many, choice doesn't come into it.

A bit of empathy goes a long way, especially in these weird times.

If you have a mask, you're protected.

This is completely wrong. If you wear a mask you are protecting everyone else. You aren't protected by wearing a mask. If only that were true.

Scientists voraciously research and aim to find conclusions within minute margins of discrepancy.

Some do, but then they meet peer reviewers and readers in the same field who publish repeats or reanalyses. This is why data must be made public.

It tends to be press officers and journalists who make much ado about very little.

However, sometimes people from other fields trip and fall over the answers that others have been seeking for decades.

While this is sometimes true, it's not members of the public having random opinions, but serious scientists using science, even if in different fields.

@CentrifugalBumblePuppy - sympathy with the TM and excellent name - are you a fan of Brave New World and/or the Postman essay?

My mother and an aunt had TM and couldn't bear the slightest breeze on their faces so their best compromise was several layers of silk scarves.

And, yes - at some point it would be helpful if members of the government rallied themselves to put out coherent and consistent messages on points that affect so many people and how we live.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

If you have a mask, you're protected.

This is completely wrong. If you wear a mask you are protecting everyone else. You aren't protected by wearing a mask. If only that were true.

That does depend on the type of mask being used. Some will provide more protection than others.

@Fuckinellitsme YANBU.

But from the peculiarly horrible responses on this thread it seems that many people are just vile and unable to think of anything except their desire to police rules and get at other people, disabilities or not.

If you take public transport, then it's your responsibility to take whatever steps possible to protect yourself.

But there are no steps you can take to protect yourself on a bus. On a train you suggested changing carriages every five minutes. How about on a bus? A Chinese study showed that passengers on the same bus contracted Covid from one infected passenger, not from proximity but just by airflow, so even staying two meters apart or not touching your face does not offer protection. What can I do to protect myself on a bus? Or on a train if a person sitting next to me sneezes or coughs?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

If you have a mask, you're protected.

This is completely wrong. If you wear a mask you are protecting everyone else. You aren't protected by wearing a mask. If only that were true.

In either case, you're reducing the risk. By wearing a mask, the reduction is mostly from us to others, than to ourselves.

There's some current research about aerosols, though, for which you'd need proper respirators, which are of more limited availability. This is why, regardless of masks, you should always keep a distance and as much ventilation as possible.

[quote notreallybotheredaboutausernam]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Only, from what you are saying, you are telling me to take all of the restrictions to accommodate you.

Like the entire population has done for the past 4 months to protect the vulnerable, the people, like you, who are shielding? You're just being vicious now. OP has a reason she can't wear a mask. She's hardly likely to bring on the apocalypse by being on the same bus as someone shielding.[/quote]
The shielded have been protected by shielding. We haven't been protected by anyone. We've protected ourselves by shielding. Your claim is totally false. You all were protecting everyone else who was out and about and you protected the NHS. You absolutely did not protect me or anyone else shielding. I protected my self by locking myself away for four months.

My entire industry shut down overnight back in March, something like 70% of people working in my (mostly freelance-based) industry become unemployed and ineligible for either furlough or self-employed support overnight. My industry has been decimated and will likely never recover. I've been unemployed and without any income since March and it's likely the job I do simply won't exist in the future, and that I'll have to start over from scratch in a whole new industry.

I also have an invisible disability (vascular ehlers-danlos) and have been denied all access to medical care and other treatments like physiotherapy which I need. Plenty of people are suffering.

As I've already said, it's really shit that a shielding person is being forced to work in unsafe conditions. But you need to find options. Take responsibility for the aspects you can control, and research your legal rights over those that you can't control, like your workplace.

Your employer needs to put steps into place to ensure you are kept safe. Whether that is changing role to one with less customer contact or supporting you to have longer off work.

What your employer can’t do is discriminate against those who have very valid reasons why they are unable to wear a mask.

There are no roles that aren't customer facing and they aren't allowing any more time off work. My choices are to go back or leave. So, is that ok then? Is it ok for disabled people to be forced out of work?

@contrmary

Could you try one of these things? It is a plastic tube that rests on the shoulders and covers the head whilst not coming into physical contact with it. It might help some people who can't wear masks or visors.

Or alternatively... Rock it like you're on Knightmare in the 1980s as a kid again!

Seriously some of the suggestions are more than a bit bonkers.

Or you could go for the giant seethrough plastic balls they bung the kids in on Swashbuckle?

Or the mask warriors could leave people the fuck alone, assume they're not wearing because they're exempt and society would be a hell of a lot fucking nicer to be around because the covid enforcers have made this whole thing a hell of a lot more hellish than it needed to be and have moved on from condemning Doris in number 37 for going for 2 walks on a day to face coverings as a stick to beat people about with.

But there are no steps you can take to protect yourself on a bus.

It depends on the bus, but that's not quite true.
You can open a window in most buses. Or sit next to the exit or entrance, which means that air is renewed, rather than the back.
A well ventilated bus should be fairly safe. Not forced air or air conditioning.
And clean your hands frequently.
And ask other people, particularly without a mask, not to sit near you, and not sit next to a person not wearing a mask.

To protect others, avoid talking, and, of course, sneeze and cough to tissues.
I'm not a fan of elbows, as particles still escape top and down. In fact, my favourite, if I don't have a tissue handy and I'm wearing a jacket or scarf, would be their insides.

That does depend on the type of mask being used. Some will provide more protection than others.

And the types that offer protection aren't available to the general public because they are in short supply and are needed by health professionals.

To the OP: I'm sorry about your situation. If there is no way for you to wear a mask or any kind of covering without severe pain then no, you shouldn't have to wear one. Would the clear tube thing work (picture on first page)?

The problem is I don't think there's anything any of us can say. Humans are diverse. They have different opinions. One person with think it's fine, one won't. That will never change.

To the person who said the science could be wrong: that's a little less reasonable. There are hundreds of good quality, peer reviewed reputable studies regarding virus transmission. Hundreds and thousands going back decades. Virtually all of them show that masks and face coverings dramatically reduce virus transmission. I fail to understand how something like a fully functional N95 filter could not do that. Of course, nothing is 100%, but even say 50% (most filters are massively above that) would be worthwhile. This virus is airborne - the role of formites is actually probably a lot less than has been stated (transmission via touching substances/surfaces). Distance and filters massively reduce the spread. Once lockdown was introduced, the r0 in this country plummeted, thanks to that.

You may not like masks, but there is little to no doubt that they are incredibly effective.

I also have an invisible disability (vascular ehlers-danlos)

Then you'll understand my user name

But there are no steps you can take to protect yourself on a bus.

Yes there are.

Wear a mask.
Use hand sanitiser.
Avoid touching your face.
Wash your hands properly for 20 seconds as soon as possible after getting off the bus.
Avoid sitting near people not wearing masks.
Try to keep 2m away from others.
Reach out to volunteer groups to ask for support eg free taxi service.
Talk to your doctors about the possibility of moving appointments to phone-only, or moving them to less busy times, so you don't have to travel during the rush hour.
Leave home earlier so you can get off a bus and wait for the next one if someone is acting in a way that makes you feel unsafe.

You've made lots of threads in the past about being frightened that someone will come up and cough on you, and being frightened that the virus is "airborne" and can be carried into your garden on the wind. That just comes across as extreme anxiety, not reasonable awareness of risk.

@SockYarn I did not see that on the guidance. Admittedly I've been mainly reading the news / watching the briefings and they have only referred to face coverings. So it does need to be clearer.

Nevertheless, as you say, it depends on individual shops, and my DH says all those he's visited turn away anyone without a face covering (including those with just visors).

Even something like a simple cotton face covering can some provide protection and reduced transmission. Obviously it gets better as you go up the ladder, N95 etc.

Trigeminal neuralgia can be horrendous. So absolutely it does sound like you should be exempt. Would be great if there were some sort of badge (like the Baby on Board badge on the Tube) that people with genuine exemptions could wear. I feel very angry that a bunch of people with their own agenda ("anti-maskers" for want of a better word) are potentially increasing the poison against people with genuine medical conditions that permeates this country as it is.

The issue is more people who don't wear the mask will likly be selfish idiots who just don't want to. The ones with an actual medical reason for exemption will be the minority. People are going to be anxious, it's a virus that's spread very fast and is still very unknown. Our country is lifting some lockdown restrictions very quickly because they need the economy back up and running, but the figures for cases still aren't low. Therefore, the wearing of masks while isn't a gurentee is a big step in reducing the infection cases and allowing the country to start going back to normal.

With this in mind we should be all working together to protect each other and minimise the spread. Yes, there are legit reasons some can't wear a mask and yes, there will be people taking the piss and refusing to not wear them for non legitimate reasons. It'd be nice for the ones who can't wear them to be willing to try various options, and if those fail then be willing to use a lanyard or a card as we all deserve reasurrance when our health is being at risk. Right now, all I'm seeing if a "Me, me, me" attitude across all people for their reasons for not wanting or not being able to wear one. Instead of actually looking into solutions.

Random thought, but if a thin scarf loosly draped around your mouth and nose (this can be allowed as a face covering) causes extreme pain, how do you get dressed and pull tops over your head and face every day? Are you able to cough and sneeze without pain? Or even lightly brush you face with your own hair? What happens if you have to be in hospital for any reason and given an oxygen mask? I'm just curious of the practicalities of this disability because its not a very known one.

@blurpityblurp

But there are no steps you can take to protect yourself on a bus.

Yes there are.

Wear a mask.
Use hand sanitiser.
Avoid touching your face.
Wash your hands properly for 20 seconds as soon as possible after getting off the bus.
Avoid sitting near people not wearing masks.
Try to keep 2m away from others.
Reach out to volunteer groups to ask for support eg free taxi service.
Talk to your doctors about the possibility of moving appointments to phone-only, or moving them to less busy times, so you don't have to travel during the rush hour.
Leave home earlier so you can get off a bus and wait for the next one if someone is acting in a way that makes you feel unsafe.

You've made lots of threads in the past about being frightened that someone will come up and cough on you, and being frightened that the virus is "airborne" and can be carried into your garden on the wind. That just comes across as extreme anxiety, not reasonable awareness of risk.

Wearing a mask doesn't protect me

Hand sanitizer, not touching my face etc doesn't affect airborne droplets, which is the entire reason people are now asked to wear masks

My appointments are done by phone wear possible but that's not possible for injections, blood tests, other treatments, scans, re programming of the medical device I have.

As for getting off the bus repeatedly - are you kidding me? How about the people not wearing masks get off the bus? How many times should I get off the bus, wait for another, pay my fare again and then possibly have to get off again?

You've made lots of threads in the past about being frightened that someone will come up and cough on you, and being frightened that the virus is "airborne" and can be carried into your garden on the wind. That just comes across as extreme anxiety, not reasonable awareness of risk.

I have not made one thread. Advance search me. You clearly have me confused with someone else.

I really don’t want to wear one, I will though.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras I hate to break it to you but not everything in the entire universe revolves around you.
You clearly need to put yourself first. What you don't have the right to do, is selfishly demand that everyone else puts you first too, no matter what their personal circumstances, needs, disabilities etc are.

On both of my recent bus drivers there has been one (different) male passenger who removed his mask on sitting down, then got up and closed all the windows.

Excuse me if in those circumstances I do object strongly. The bus driver made no comment, and we all sat and watched as the second offender pissed through the fence at his bus stop into a school playing field. (This was about 5:30 pm in a more expensive part of town... I won’t blame tourists as he wasn’t one, and all the local toilets are open).

If you think that people don’t need to be able to prove their exemption to oblige others to comply you are being very naive.

I think the issue is that it is stated that you are exempt from wearing a mask “if you have a disability.” Now. There are certain medical conditions which would make a mask impossible, but not every disability and I have one.

No, this is not the case:

You do not need to wear a face covering if you have a legitimate reason not to. This includes:

- young children under the age of 11
- not being able to put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability
- if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress
- if you are travelling with or providing assistance to someone who relies on lip reading to communicate
- to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others
- to avoid injury, or to escape a risk of harm, and you do not have a face covering with you
- to eat or drink, but only if you need to
- to take medication
- if a police officer or other official requests you remove your face covering

There are also scenarios when you are permitted to remove a face covering when asked:

- If asked to do so by shop staff for the purpose of age identification
- If speaking with people who rely on lip reading, facial expressions and clear sound. Some may ask you, either verbally or in writing, to remove a covering to help with communication

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#exemptions-to-wearing-a-face-covering-where-they-are-mandated