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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that living in a very messy house does impact on children

326 replies

HeatingOnInJuly · 14/07/2020 21:11

I was thinking of this based on the "small ways your parents fucked you up" thread so it kind of stems from that

My parent's house was very messy - they would say it was normal family clutter, and that it was cosy and lived in, but I'm not sure I've ever been in a house quite like it since, so I think it must have been unusually messy

Door handles would fall off and were never fixed, ancient carpets would be ripped up and the floor would be left, bare cement, for months. Piles of washing everywhere. Nappies bagged and left on the floor for days, though they made it to the bin eventually. Kitchen was frankly dirty, with sides invisible due to stuff being piled on. Nobody ever put anything away after it was used, it would just be left. I didn't realise until well into adult hood that people would immediately put something back where it belonged after use, as a matter of course, everything from bottle opener to hoover was just left. Never sat at dining table due to being piled high with shit. Never taught how to do any chores or how to clean properly and manage laundry. Cupboards unusable as they were so jammed full of stuff. The furniture itself was good quality - plenty of art on the walls, sofas were expensive, good carpets when we had it - so I think this meant it passed as arty and bohemian but actually it was a tip

Never any clean uniform or Games kit which led to detentions at school. Yelled at for losing things when things inevitably got lost the minute they were set down. Difficult to study as the rooms were kept dark with the curtains closed. We were always late because of things getting mislaid. Clothes never hung up, just picked from a communal pile that lived in a walk in closet.

Friends would have been welcome, but by the age of about 8 I was too embarrassed to invite them,but of course I couldn't tell my parents that so I made excuses.

Parents had good jobs and were comfortably off, they just couldn't be bothered to clean or tidy as there was always something they'd rather be doing.

They insisted until they were blue in the face that it didn't matter, that life was too short to waste cleaning, that sort of thing, but actually all it resulted in was a dishevelled childhood where everything seemed out of control and chaotic. If I'd told them that the house was embarrassing they just would have laughed at me.

When I moved out and had my first child, I did what I knew and for about a year or two my flat was a mess. I didn't know how to keep things clean and organised, and I read things like that "dust if you must" poem that floats around and ignored 99% of housework because I was spending time with my child. But then I noticed the same thing happening especially when nursery started, being late because everything was lying everywhere or no clothes were washed or dry, "losing"new clothes or toys in the mess and only finding them once they were outgrown.... It made me realise that while obviously there's no need to go to extremes and scrub your loo with bleach and a toothbrush every day, there's a reason why being reasonably clean and tidy is seen as a desirable life skill. I had to teach myself how to manage a home and to do the most basic tasks thanks to the Internet

The state of my childhood home had a really negative effect on me, and I could see the same thing happening with my own child. no it's not neglect or abuse, but when your house is so messy that it's not a pleasant or comfortable place to be, or when the mess is causing regular stress and impacting on other ordinary bits of life, then your child probably would quite like you to do a bit of cleaning rather than a craft activity with them, certainly once they're a bit older. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think that level of mess doesn't impact on their children

OP posts:
45redballoon · 16/07/2020 18:50

My childhood home would pass as bohemian I suppose.. very large and old, lots of art, lost of expensive furniture... but it was indeed filthy and falling apart... we did have a woman come and do the laundry and ironing tho so my school uniform was always fine... absolutely chaotic apart from that tho... but strangely I have loads of affection for it. I love the clutter in my parents house. I'm not the tidiest either... I do the bathroom and kitchen surfaces every day.. but I only change bedding whenever it occurs to me and ditto with the floors.. theres also a leak in the roof which just has a bucket under it and that type of thing is always happening
I think the issue is it can sometimes be dirty to the point of being a safeguarding issue but also theres the issue that a child may just not have the same personality as the parents.. luckily for me I'm quite similar to my mother and I didnt care about the chaotic clutter... but I can imagine that some kids crave order and find neatness relaxing... it would be hard for them to grow up in that environment and vice versa for kids who like clutter growing up in super neat houses
I think bottom line is can we find compassion for our parents who in most cases may have been doing their best and just genuinely had different standards of cleaning to the ones you end up liking?
Sometimes no it's too extreme... but for me I just look back on it with amused affection. They are still like that now.. every surface has ten layers of dust and a hundred tiny ornaments.. all the walls crammed with pictures.. cats roaming everywhere. I love them.

isabellerossignol · 16/07/2020 19:00

I think it's a very common theme on Mumsnet that houses should be untidy and that only uptight bullies have clean tidy houses. Every single time a new mum posts about being overwhelmed by the demands of a newborn and feeling that housework has slipped, many many posters will say that a tidy house is a sign of neglect and that their health visitor told them she'd be really worried if she came to a house that was clean and tidy because it would probably mean that the housework takes priority over the baby. It makes my blood boil every time. My children were always fed and washed and prioritised, but my dirty dishes were in the dishwasher and my dirty washing was in the laundry basket. Not everyone's house is like that, and that's absolutely ok too. But it's far more likely that the health visitors who say this are observing an ordinary 'lived in' home and are trying to reassure a tired new mother that things are just fine and it's a temporary blip. Not actually saying that anyone who manages to wash their clothes and dishes with a newborn in the house is actually a neglectful parent.

LadyPrigsbottom · 16/07/2020 19:11

I think everyone prefers their home to be clean and tidy. I remember going to stay with a relative at university and he lived in an old, basement flat with four other students. Their kitchen / living room was...I mean, a health hazard. I arrived and my friend took himself back to bed to sleep Hmm. Being young and foolish and bored, I gutted the kitchen while all the students were asleep. They were super grateful etc. Later that day we were all in the living room and one of them looked bemused and said, "wait, why do I want to stay in here? Why am I enjoying sitting in here and not going back to my room"? "Because it's clean"!

Anywho, I don't mind mess or clutter. I used to quite like staying with my friend whose house was truly dirty, (until we were teenagers tbf and then she never got ready in her own house, but came to mine). But it is nicer, even if you don't necessarily notice it, if your home is relatively clean and tidy.

I won't freak out if there's a bit of clutter. As I speak, there is a cup of tea on one table, a recipe book and a history book on the arm of the sofa, some reusable nappies (very clean) I'm about to sell on eBay, a jigsaw puzzle and a notebook, all dotted around my living & dining room. And it still looks fine to me. But I would find it stressful if visitors or someone doing work, like the meter man or whatever, turned up and I was embarrassed to let them in. Floors need to be clean as do kitchens and bathrooms. The first floor bedrooms which are visible as you go up the stairs need to have beds made, clean floors etc. Cluttered cupboards and things which are out of sight though, I can (and do) live with.

buildingbridge · 16/07/2020 19:27

I don't like VERY dirty houses but a few bits around the house, some clutter, some clothes on the floor is fine.

My sister in law is a clean freak. Oh my goodness me, I cannot breathe when I go to her house. Any MESS irritates her. When I have a drink or snack, she always brings me a tissue so that I don't accidentally sprinkle crumbs on the floor. I left a tissue role on the bathroom floor, next to the toilet because she didn't have a stand... she called me right away to pick it up. I cannot leave like that and I can imagine a child will get anxious if they do live in an environment like that.

isabellerossignol · 16/07/2020 19:33

@buildingbridge

I don't like VERY dirty houses but a few bits around the house, some clutter, some clothes on the floor is fine.

My sister in law is a clean freak. Oh my goodness me, I cannot breathe when I go to her house. Any MESS irritates her. When I have a drink or snack, she always brings me a tissue so that I don't accidentally sprinkle crumbs on the floor. I left a tissue role on the bathroom floor, next to the toilet because she didn't have a stand... she called me right away to pick it up. I cannot leave like that and I can imagine a child will get anxious if they do live in an environment like that.

I would agree that the toilet roll on the floor is over the top (although I think that's a strange place to leave it) but surely trying not to put crumbs on people's floors is just normal? I've never been in someone's house where I wasn't given a plate or a napkin to catch the crumbs if I'm eating a biscuit or cake or whatever. Ironically, even my sister who had her children removed from her care due to the state of her house would use plates or kitchen roll in that situation.
StormBaby · 16/07/2020 19:37

That's the thing, you can be bohemian and artsy and hippy AND have clean kitchen sides, wardrobes full of clean clothes for the kids, skidmark free toilets and, well, standards. Id consider my decor style to be bohemian but I make damn sure all the kids, step or bio, have a clean environment and whatever they need.

aintnothinbutagstring · 16/07/2020 19:41

I think OP you are describing a neglected home, not just a messy one, being in a state of disrepair, rubbish not being put out and not having clean clothes. Right now our house is messy, of which I'm talking of gaming wires a bit out of control, a guitar, toys, the kids schoolwork and artwork not put away properly. If they were at school, I'd have more of a grip on things. But the kitchen is clean, I cook several meals a day in it so it has to be, we have clean clothes and rubbish is put out daily or more. Everything is in good repair, so walls painted nicely and carpets clean, no bare floors. One of our friends has a heavily cluttered home, I mean heavily, and not awfully clean to be honest, but our children have the most fun there because they are there to see their friends, not how tidy the house is.

MessAllOver · 16/07/2020 19:49

I think you do need to be able to tolerate some mess if you've got kids. It's good for them to do messy activities like painting, stamping, crafts, play doh, water play, colouring in, drawing and play outside in the garden in sand and mud. Also to be allowed to spread their toys out and get into their games without a parent hovering to tidy things up. So that inevitably means some mess on the floor, marks on carpets and rugs and bits of things trampled everywhere! It's a bit sad if younger children never get to do these things and older kids are petrified of making a mess... I think that's what I would think of as being a 'lived in' house. But that's clearly very different from a filthy and cluttered house!

Buddywoo · 16/07/2020 19:52

My house is fine, not top notch with tidiness, but clean and relaxing to live in.
I went for dinner at a friend's house. The whole house was white, furniture, walls, flowers. So apart from a few naff pictures on the wall it was all co-ordinated. When I took off my jacket and put it on the sofa she asked me to hang it up as it was spoiling her colour co-ordination. Who wants to live like that?

LadyPrigsbottom · 16/07/2020 20:00

@LadyPrigsbottom

I think everyone prefers their home to be clean and tidy. I remember going to stay with a relative at university and he lived in an old, basement flat with four other students. Their kitchen / living room was...I mean, a health hazard. I arrived and my friend took himself back to bed to sleep Hmm. Being young and foolish and bored, I gutted the kitchen while all the students were asleep. They were super grateful etc. Later that day we were all in the living room and one of them looked bemused and said, "wait, why do I want to stay in here? Why am I enjoying sitting in here and not going back to my room"? "Because it's clean"!

Anywho, I don't mind mess or clutter. I used to quite like staying with my friend whose house was truly dirty, (until we were teenagers tbf and then she never got ready in her own house, but came to mine). But it is nicer, even if you don't necessarily notice it, if your home is relatively clean and tidy.

I won't freak out if there's a bit of clutter. As I speak, there is a cup of tea on one table, a recipe book and a history book on the arm of the sofa, some reusable nappies (very clean) I'm about to sell on eBay, a jigsaw puzzle and a notebook, all dotted around my living & dining room. And it still looks fine to me. But I would find it stressful if visitors or someone doing work, like the meter man or whatever, turned up and I was embarrassed to let them in. Floors need to be clean as do kitchens and bathrooms. The first floor bedrooms which are visible as you go up the stairs need to have beds made, clean floors etc. Cluttered cupboards and things which are out of sight though, I can (and do) live with.

Should say that the room which DH and I share in the loft is the worst room in the house Blush. But it's because nobody else sees it! Also, the dcs are quite little and they actually don't create much clutter in their rooms. Their toys all go away in big IKEA toy drawers and their clothes fit easily in their wardrobes. Dh and I have so much paperwork and laptops and extra clothes which I might fit into again some day Blush, toiletries, sewing stuff, make up, hair dryers and so on. Actually, I'm going to make this weekend's project to tackle our room. But if any room is going to be messy, I'd rather it was ours. As this thread shows, children tend to prefer tidiness. I think most adults do too. It's just a matter of having the time and inclination to do it.
MessAllOver · 16/07/2020 20:05

@Buddywoo. I hate, hate, hate white houses! They feel so cold and you can't relax at all in them.

Rose789 · 16/07/2020 20:07

Growing up my house was messy. Both my parents smoked indoors, we had a dog that shed black hair all over the pale carpet which was hoovered about once a month. Dishes were washed when there were no more dishes in the cupboard. It was dusted when the dust got so thick you could write your name in it.
When I got my own place at 16 I had no idea how to clean, I had a huge walk in cupboard in my bedroom and everything just got tossed in there. I continued washing the dishes when there were no more dishes in the cupboard.
Then I I had really quite severe mental health issues and the place just got worse and worse I’m talking not taking the rubbish out until there were piles and piles of bin bags in the kitchen and in the garden. No clean clothes because I couldn’t find the motivation to put a wash load in.
I’ve taught myself how to clean and how to organize and now I absolutely love cleaning. It calms me when everything is clean and fresh. But I’m so aware that being too clean could also affect my kids. So if they play in the garden and get covered head to toe in mud I will just laugh with them. Chuck them in the bath and then wash the clothes and the floor after they are in bed. They do have rules that games are put away once they are finished playing so pieces don’t go missing and that toys are mostly put away when they are done. Even the 18month old will help put her toys in the toy box before lunch.

genteelwoman · 16/07/2020 20:37

Every person I know who subscribes to the "a joke must look lived in" philosophy has a not clean to filthy home. People tend to overestimate how clean they are, in my experience.

I do believe everyone prefers a clean home, just our abilities to maintain one differ.

LaurieMarlow · 16/07/2020 20:42

I do believe everyone prefers a clean home, just our abilities to maintain one differ.

I don’t agree with that at all. It’s a question of priorities surely. Cleaning isn’t difficult. It’s about how you choose to spend your time.

buildingbridge · 16/07/2020 20:42

Isabelle

Someone handing a napkin for a cake or drink is fine. I didn't elaborate. She will stand on top of me, go away, talk to me and say "haha haha, are you ok? Nothing went on the floor right?". She will do this frequently!

isabellerossignol · 16/07/2020 20:48

@buildingbridge

Isabelle

Someone handing a napkin for a cake or drink is fine. I didn't elaborate. She will stand on top of me, go away, talk to me and say "haha haha, are you ok? Nothing went on the floor right?". She will do this frequently!

Fair enough, that would drive me demented too!
IceCreamSummer20 · 16/07/2020 21:55

A clean and tidy home is healthier. I have at least three friends that I now don’t like to stay with, because of health and safety. I’m not sure if it’s a coincidence but they are definitely of the upper middle class type, great jobs, big houses. And none of them have filthy houses, but they all just make me feel really uncomfortable there. So even if their kids are used to it, it’s just a bit mad.

One friend - it’s just so uncomfortable. I had no pillow last time I slept there, and a really itchy duvet.

With one friend my children got worms from their kids. Fair enough kids get worms - but they actually knew their kids had worms, didn’t tell me, until we were just leaving and didn’t wash the bed sheets!

It’s a real shame as I love them to bits but I had to stop visiting, and our friendship died. If it affects comfort and health it’s just sloppy standards and not bohemian!

SuperMumTum · 16/07/2020 22:45

My parents kept a messy house when we were growing up. A lot of DIY going on all the time - think wiring, tiling, building walls - plus parents busy working and studying. It wasn't unhygienic but it was a right state to look at. I know my parents would have thought that people who kept a super tidy house were uptight and not as relaxed and easy going as them. Its definitely rubbed off on me. I try to be tidy but am crap at keeping on top of it and when I go to really tidy houses I realise that I don't want to live like that anyway so I try not to let it worry me. There is something uptight about obsessive tidying.

Ostagazuzulum · 16/07/2020 22:52

I reckon so. Clearly by peoples experiences on here it does. I think all kids go through a transition where they become more aware of stuff and compare their lives to their friends on some level. I have a friend who is lovely but her house is an utter pigsty. Her and her husband are sooo untidy. This isn' me having extremely high standards and me judging her by them, it truly is a tip. They're hoarders and sometimes when you go, you have to move stuff out of the way to be able to sit down on a sofa. Just stuff everywhere. House itself is quite nice. They've decorated it but quickly turns into a tip. Other friends have commented and it's accepted that's just how they live. But they've got two children now and the girl (eldest) is about to start year 5. I very much wonder how she will be able to bring friends home without risk of friends going back to school and relating that they house is an utter mess. I think to an extent it's quite unfair on kids. It also feel very chaotic and not relaxing there ( I know they'll be used to it but I see the girl how she behaves at mine with my daughter and how she seems frustrated at home moving things around to make space to sit at Ta me to colour in etc). I guess they're used to it but they must remember how judgey kids are and how tough it is as a kid without being labelled as the kid with the scruffy house.

ChickenFriedFudge · 16/07/2020 23:24

A really good post OP and very well put, I agree with it all. Although I do agree that actually it is on the neglect scale. I'm a police e officer on child protection and one of the questions when we submit a safeguarding referral is "Was the house clean and tody?"
Very often I have to say no, and detail what I mean by that. Obviously this comes with other boxes ticked as well, but bare in mind the question of a tidy home is in there for a reason, and it's because, as you say, it has a detrimental effect on the kids health and social life.

My house growing up wasn't great tbh, bordering on pretty grim. I remember the carpets the most, they were disgusting. Someone up thread called it "visible noise" which I think is a great description. Never had friends over, and would hate it when kids walked past the front of the house.

A friend of mine lived with her mum in a small terrace. It was completely rammed with stuff, high up to the ceiling, right to the rafters. They had a tiny "pathway " they would sort of carve out through it and use as a walkway. She had so many bruises on her from stuff falling on her. They moved and I thought that would sort it but it was just as bad. I remember the mum had a parrot and would just let it free around the house, shitting literally everywhere. The house stunk, I felt so sorry for her. Again the mum was a very bohemian type, completely obsessed with her daughter and very loving, but my god that house was a death trap.

Gwenhwyfar · 17/07/2020 15:21

"I think it's a very common theme on Mumsnet that houses should be untidy and that only uptight bullies have clean tidy houses. "

There are also some obsessive cleaners on here. I didn't even know people cleaned their walls and doors or cleaned their bathrooms every day. Obviously, I haven't had the best of role models, but I think I have an idea of what is normal now and the average on MN is cleaner than normal.

Howzaboutye · 19/07/2020 00:07

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I've had an epiphany reading this thread and thinking this house stuff through.
I'm trying to break away from my mother's neglectful parenting and I didn't realize that your house is a reflection of those influences too.
But of course it is.

I'm calling it our 'covid clear up' and am determined to have a lovely tidy and clean house to live in, that we are proud of.

Thanks OP for starting this off X

Sparklesocks · 19/07/2020 00:49

I’m sorry OP that you had bad experiences growing up in that environment. I absolutely agree that the cleanliness/tidiness levels of a home can really impact children.

A child’s home should be a stable and safe anchor for them. Having clutter and chaotic amounts of stuff pouring out of every cupboard and spilling over every surface throws that off - it’s a stressful environment for a child. And they should have access to clean clothes, be bathed regularly etc.

I’m not saying parents need to keep a rigid, sterile house with nothing ever out of place - the very nature of children means they’ll make messes, toys will end up in different places etc - but it’s about restoring that to a tidy and clean space for them and not letting the little messes spiral into worse.

MazDazzle · 19/07/2020 01:38

Same here @Howzaboutye

The most I’ve ever been able to achieve is 2 tidy rooms at a time - max. Even then, they would be surface-tidy.

I’m slowly getting there though. So far I’ve managed the kids’ bedrooms (3 of them), the bathroom, my bedroom and the toy room. I’ve managed to keep on top of the rooms I’ve tidied. I must have filled a dozen bin bags for the charity shop. Knowing where everything is saves so much time and I feel so much calmer. I just need to keep going.

Hohofortherobbers · 19/07/2020 14:19

I have been following this with interest. My family house was untidy growing up, not the horrors that have been described here but any visitors coming required a planned clear up. I was clean and cared for but my dSAHM was just not into tidying and cleaning and my df worked long hours. I am now an exceptionally organised person and my house is too, it is 8/10 tidy, I don't do clutter, and it's definitely clean. After my df's death the state of my dm's house deteriorated and I became really anxious being there, the visual noise comment rings true for me, I felt I couldn't leave my dc there, babysitting had to be at my house. However after dm had a significant health issue (not mess related!) she allowed me to clear up her house. She couldn't manage a cleaner, as previously mentioned the place wasn't tidy enough for that. But we have come to an arrangement, I clean and tidy once a week, she pays me to do it. She is happy for me to throw clutter out, it doesn't upset her. So I don't think she has a mental health problem regarding hanging on to clutter, I think she just hates cleaning and finds it hard to organise things. I find it easy and actually find housework quite therapeutic, I didn't struggle to learn this after my childhood upbringing, I think it's just the way I am.