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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that living in a very messy house does impact on children

326 replies

HeatingOnInJuly · 14/07/2020 21:11

I was thinking of this based on the "small ways your parents fucked you up" thread so it kind of stems from that

My parent's house was very messy - they would say it was normal family clutter, and that it was cosy and lived in, but I'm not sure I've ever been in a house quite like it since, so I think it must have been unusually messy

Door handles would fall off and were never fixed, ancient carpets would be ripped up and the floor would be left, bare cement, for months. Piles of washing everywhere. Nappies bagged and left on the floor for days, though they made it to the bin eventually. Kitchen was frankly dirty, with sides invisible due to stuff being piled on. Nobody ever put anything away after it was used, it would just be left. I didn't realise until well into adult hood that people would immediately put something back where it belonged after use, as a matter of course, everything from bottle opener to hoover was just left. Never sat at dining table due to being piled high with shit. Never taught how to do any chores or how to clean properly and manage laundry. Cupboards unusable as they were so jammed full of stuff. The furniture itself was good quality - plenty of art on the walls, sofas were expensive, good carpets when we had it - so I think this meant it passed as arty and bohemian but actually it was a tip

Never any clean uniform or Games kit which led to detentions at school. Yelled at for losing things when things inevitably got lost the minute they were set down. Difficult to study as the rooms were kept dark with the curtains closed. We were always late because of things getting mislaid. Clothes never hung up, just picked from a communal pile that lived in a walk in closet.

Friends would have been welcome, but by the age of about 8 I was too embarrassed to invite them,but of course I couldn't tell my parents that so I made excuses.

Parents had good jobs and were comfortably off, they just couldn't be bothered to clean or tidy as there was always something they'd rather be doing.

They insisted until they were blue in the face that it didn't matter, that life was too short to waste cleaning, that sort of thing, but actually all it resulted in was a dishevelled childhood where everything seemed out of control and chaotic. If I'd told them that the house was embarrassing they just would have laughed at me.

When I moved out and had my first child, I did what I knew and for about a year or two my flat was a mess. I didn't know how to keep things clean and organised, and I read things like that "dust if you must" poem that floats around and ignored 99% of housework because I was spending time with my child. But then I noticed the same thing happening especially when nursery started, being late because everything was lying everywhere or no clothes were washed or dry, "losing"new clothes or toys in the mess and only finding them once they were outgrown.... It made me realise that while obviously there's no need to go to extremes and scrub your loo with bleach and a toothbrush every day, there's a reason why being reasonably clean and tidy is seen as a desirable life skill. I had to teach myself how to manage a home and to do the most basic tasks thanks to the Internet

The state of my childhood home had a really negative effect on me, and I could see the same thing happening with my own child. no it's not neglect or abuse, but when your house is so messy that it's not a pleasant or comfortable place to be, or when the mess is causing regular stress and impacting on other ordinary bits of life, then your child probably would quite like you to do a bit of cleaning rather than a craft activity with them, certainly once they're a bit older. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think that level of mess doesn't impact on their children

OP posts:
EvilPea · 15/07/2020 15:17

Yes!!
So much resonates. Especially the putting things down to never be seen again. As an adult I just bought new ones instead of stress out about it. But as a child it was really hard, never met with any help to look for it just “you should have looked after it”
School work was done on the floor and you’d try desperately not to get stuff on it.
School clothes I was a dab hand at hand washing the night before and stomping out the excess water in towels. Or just going with wet stuff.
The kitchen was something else, we had mice. It was just accepted. We also had various beetle infestations. Washing up was just piled up with water for weeks on end, it was grey and stank. Floors cleaned once a year, maybe. Dog piss on the carpets.
It was so chaotic and stressful.
My grandmother had to come round for the meter reader once, she lied and said she was a neighbour when she saw their face.

I moved out at 17 but back a few years later and cleaned. My mum went properly mad at me.

I now have no idea how to clean, what’s considered normal clean or normal mess. If the house gets a bit messy (like Christmas) I get an absolute ball of rage. I never feel comfortable inviting people back, or play dates, even though my house is ok on the whole (I think but I’m never sure). Whenever I say anything on here it’s always “cleaning is common sense”

It’s not if you didn’t grow up with it.

Zaphodsotherhead · 15/07/2020 15:18

@Smallsteps88

But, to be honest, they were partly the agents of their own destruction, because none of them would lift a finger voluntarily to tidy or clean.

That’s kids though! Perfectly normal for them not to be born knowing how to have a bedroom cleaning routine. That’s your job to teach and enforce.

I tried. I really did. Hours and hours and hours of them arguing in a circle why they shouldn't have to do xxx because brother/sister wasn't doing xxx and it wasn't faaaaaaiirrrrr. On a loop. For ten years. They could keep it up for far far longer than I could, on my own, no back up, no other adult to chime in and tell them they were being unreasonable. All five of them. Used to reduce me to tears on a regular basis.

So I left their bedrooms. If they wanted to live like pigs in shit, they could. Two of them occasionally tidied, the other three didn't. I did laundry and kept the main living areas vaguely sanitary and chiselled off the worst of the mould on the ceilings.

2020wasShocking · 15/07/2020 15:24

OP your situation sounds horrendous and it was terrible you had to live like that. There’s no excuse for living in a pig sty.

I would also say that the opposite of this could also be problematic. When the home is so tidy/clean/neat- to the point children aren’t allowed to drop a crumb or make a mess, touch the walls incase they ruin the paintwork or smudge the windows. I think this can a have negative impact for the child too.

Bbq1 · 15/07/2020 15:36

That sounds terribly difficult op and must have been so hard growing up had a detrimental effect on you. However, I also agree that a jome you can't move in for fear of upsetting an almost ocd can probably be just as damaging and detrimental. In the 70s my mum knew a mother that would send her kids to play out all day every day to stop them messing up her house in any way.

LimedTimbers · 15/07/2020 15:42

Yes it absolutely does. I lived in a very messy house growing up and hated it. I am now obsessively tidy

Quackersandcheese3 · 15/07/2020 16:42

Cleaning isn’t the most important thing but it’s in my top 10 in terms of family life. I think being messy/ dirty in the home is incredibly disrespectful and sets such a bad example to children. It’s also plain minging . Like I’m not on the kids cases all day to tidy up and clean but there’s a point when they will have to. Lucky dh and I have quite a good partnership and he helps out.

I’ve got some friends that are very lazy and lax in their approach to maintaining a home. I used to go to one of their houses regularly and not once did I go to the toilet and there wasn’t skid marks. Dinner dishes lying from 24 hours previous. So gross.

I grew up in very clean household bordering on obsessive. I’m way more laid back.

It was very interesting to read your post op.

Theladyofshalot · 15/07/2020 16:44

My best friends home was always a sty - I LOVED it. It was lived in and comfortable. They had such a warm home, full of colour noise and treasured things. Pets, they had pets. Toys and games on display. Posters up. Food cooked, snacks made. Conversations had. It was wonderful.

My Mother was so obsessed with looking perfect and her home being immaculate - it was a homes and gardens cover, clinical and cold. Her entire worth as a human being was measured in having a house/life that other people lusted after.

If YouTube had been a thing in her youth she 100% would had a lifestyle channel. She would insta the shit out of hot trends. She adores being complimented on the house, her hair her clothes - she lives for it. She always got the next big thing, new kitchen, trendy art. bespoke lighting - whatever is hot right now.

Its a shame that she was only really keen to be a mum when there was some form of reflected glory. Otherwise we were invisible to her. We raised ourselves.

Pelleas · 15/07/2020 16:55

My best friends home was always a sty - I LOVED it. It was lived in and comfortable.

The problem is, there's a point where 'lived in' crosses the line into being 'uncomfortable'. From what you say, your best friend's home was a safe distance from that line. In fact, 'difficult to live in' would better describe many of the homes people are talking about. It isn't comfortable when you have to pick your way through piles of clutter to get anywhere, or move clutter in order to sit down. Once you become aware of them, dirt and unpleasant smells become very uncomfortable.

Pelleas · 15/07/2020 16:59

Sorry, Theladyofshalot - I've realised that sounds as though I'm negating your bad experience with your cold and clinical home - that's not how I meant it to sound! I can see that posters have had bad experiences with the opposite extreme.

Buddywoo · 15/07/2020 17:04

I worked as an estate agent for years and once went to value a house that sticks in my mind. The house was filthy, not just ordinary grime which I saw plenty of, but years and years of dirt and grease. I slipped on the kitchen floor with the grease and my feet stuck to the carpet in the living room. It smelt and I got bitten there, presumably fleas.
There was a girl living there about 10. When I went into her bedroom she had painted it and it was tidy. She had tried to make it as nice as possible with some little ornaments and posters on the wall. I felt so sorry for her, it was one of the saddest things I have seen.

olivo · 15/07/2020 17:10

This thread is really interesting. My house is often untidy but always clean. When I have time, I prefer to keep the kitchen and bathrooms clean, or run the hoover round, rather than organise toys, piles of stuff etc. Washing is always done and schools things organised in their own way. I have a good blitz every now and then with tidying and sorting.

I wonder though, having read this, what my friends/parents/ children think about it.....

Smallsteps88 · 15/07/2020 17:20

I don’t think it could be perceived that anyone is talking about your house @olivo. Your house is clearly a clean house.

ginghamtablecloths · 15/07/2020 17:29

It would be embarrassing to take friends back and not being able to find things is annoying and time-consuming. My parents home was messy but not as bad as yours OP. BIL called it an 'open filing system' and he probably thinks my house is less than perfect. I'm sure it has a bearing on one's future domestic habits.

Pelleas · 15/07/2020 17:31

rather than organise toys, piles of stuff

There are terms used by councils when surveying litter in areas - I can't remember what exactly they are (and can't find on Google) but there are three levels, ranging from 'fresh' to 'decayed'. You can liken this to levels of clutter in a house. There is 'fresh' clutter - e.g. a pile of washing put down waiting to be moved somewhere or shoes in the hallway that people wear every day, or some recycling that will be out by the end of the week, or last night's washing up that you'll clear before lunch today - that kind of thing falls into 'lived in' and is fine. Then there is 'decayed' clutter which is piles and towers of stuff that have stood there for months or years with no prospect of being moved, with dust, dirt or even vermin being harboured by them - that crosses the line and is not OK.

isabellerossignol · 15/07/2020 17:52

I'm surprised at a poster upthread whose definition of a house that was uncomfortably, unwelcomingly tidy, included things like using a plate to catch crumbs and not being allowed to eat in bedrooms. To me those are just very basic housekeeping. I posted near the start of the thread about how I resented growing up in a messy house, my mum's housekeeping standards were fairly lax. But I would never have been allowed to eat in my bedroom or leave a trail of crumbs because I thought it was too much effort to use a plate. I know people's standards differ but I'm amazed that they differ so much that growing up in a house that I found upsettingly untidy and unwelcomimg would be viewed by someone else as being unwelcoming due to being excessively tidy.

Bluntness100 · 15/07/2020 18:05

She had tried to make it as nice as possible with some little ornaments and posters on the wall

That made me feel sad too. You can just picture that little girl trying to create a sanctuary in the chaos.

Bluntness100 · 15/07/2020 18:17

If you never see things being cleaned or put away in your formative years

This is where I disagree With you. Because even in a filthy home, most people do see things being cleaned or put away as they go to other homes, for a visit, friends, family etc, and they also see adverts on tv with folks cleaning. Tv programs where someone is cleaning, like Hilda Ogden. They know it’s wrong, hence why so many folks are saying they were embarrassed and envious of their friends.

I don’t buy into that people grow up and never encounter it. I do buy into it is not instinctive for some due to upbringing. But look how many folks went the complete opposite and wouldn’t dream of having a dirty house because of their child hood experience.

Pelleas · 15/07/2020 18:29

Because even in a filthy home, most people do see things being cleaned or put away as they go to other homes, for a visit, friends, family etc, and they also see adverts on tv with folks cleaning.

Not everyone spends much time in other people's houses when they are very young - and if you only see, say, one other house in your early childhood there is nothing to tell you that yours is wrong and theirs is right. As for television - people don't learn by imitating the television, and there would be no reason for a small child to see Hilda Ogden cleaning as any more real and imitable than the Starship Enterprise teleporting somewhere. Leaving aside that not everyone watches any or much television as a small child (we didn't even have a TV when I was very small).

But look how many folks went the complete opposite and wouldn’t dream of having a dirty house because of their child hood experience.

Yes, I agree but what I'm saying is that it doesn't come easily or naturally. I don't mean that housework is a breeze or enjoyable for anyone - what I mean is that you have to train yourself to see clutter and dirt, and train yourself, as an adult, to put something away or close a cupboard after you have used it. Things that others see straight away have to be pointed out to you. It's not the physical how to use a mop or duster or hoover - it's training yourself out of being blind to dust and dirt.

PhilCornwall1 · 15/07/2020 18:50

I'm the other way and I do think it gets to my wife and boys. I was brought up in a very clean and tidy house, but my mother wasn't over the top. I think I'm worse than her.

I hoover downstairs every morning before I start work and dust it 3 times a week. I do also clean the bathroom completely every day and the kitchen gets done too. I can't stand clutter either. To me it is a place for everything and everything in its place, you won't lose anything then.

My youngests bedroom is a shit pit and it does my head in, but he reckons it's tidy.

I'm desperate to now get our bathroom redone as it's had a damp problem and needs to be done ASAP. We just need to buy the stuff and get someone in.

I really do think I go over the top, but I do like it clean and tidy.

Chosennone · 15/07/2020 18:55

In terms of 'knowing' how to clean when parents don't.
I knew how to hoover... didn't know you could move furniture until I got a housekeeping job Confused
I knew how to wash up
I thought piling stuff(letters/leaflets/passports/cheque books) up on window sills/stairs normal
I knew how to dust... it was done every Christmas
Loved that friends houses had toilet brushes... asked mum to get one, Dad did.
Thought bedding was just changed once every 2 or 3 months unless you'd been sick.
Didn't know vinyl floors should be mopped.
Thought food and grime all over hob normal until I got a job in a cafe
Thought bath grime was normal etc.
I was amazed when I was taught to properly clean a fridge at a Sat job in a cafe. Went home and blitzed it.

AngryFeminist · 15/07/2020 19:21

I feel like both extremes are to do with feeling like you haven't got ownership of your own space. It's so important to grow up learning to respect the needs of everyone in the house re: tidiness and make reasonable compromises; part of that is having your own little corner of the house and knowing you can have others over.

I was one of those on the opposite end to OP - very very controlling stepdad who policed the house and all our movements. No space to myself, not allowed friends over except on rare occasions where they were totally creeped out, and hell to pay for a teapot dripping or some bollocks. I went the other way for a bit and have now found a decent compromise I think, but it is really important to me that my son grows up with that feeling of ownership. Otherwise he'll feel as pushed out as many of us did, which I'd hate.

WeWantSweet · 15/07/2020 19:23

Wasn't there an issue in the 70's/80's whereby some middle class social workers were accused by other more "right on" middle class social workers that to comment negatively on this sort of thing was being judgemental and therefore wrong. Oh dear..

Ohsuchaperfectday · 15/07/2020 19:28

Not read the thread.

Yes it's a life skill but only one set of people I know put things back the instant they use them.

Any extreme can be damaging and believe me, the show home, mum proudly claiming she's ocd is very very damaging too. A home where you dare not breathe, have no space, can't grow, can't relax in is also dreadful.

Somewhere in the middle is always best.

BrutusMcDogface · 15/07/2020 19:33

I don’t think my mum taught me how to do any of the house jobs, despite spending most of her time making the place spotless. I’m not blaming her, but as I said above, she wouldn’t let me help, so I probably didn’t pay any attention to what she was doing.

When I was 15 (yes, 15!) my then manager in my first little job in a shop, taught me to move the hoover backwards and forwards instead of just pushing it along in one direction.Blush I seriously lacked (lack?!) life skills.

lunar1 · 15/07/2020 19:37

@theprincessmittens I think we had the same mother. I could never understand why she literally didn't bother with anything. 💕