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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that living in a very messy house does impact on children

326 replies

HeatingOnInJuly · 14/07/2020 21:11

I was thinking of this based on the "small ways your parents fucked you up" thread so it kind of stems from that

My parent's house was very messy - they would say it was normal family clutter, and that it was cosy and lived in, but I'm not sure I've ever been in a house quite like it since, so I think it must have been unusually messy

Door handles would fall off and were never fixed, ancient carpets would be ripped up and the floor would be left, bare cement, for months. Piles of washing everywhere. Nappies bagged and left on the floor for days, though they made it to the bin eventually. Kitchen was frankly dirty, with sides invisible due to stuff being piled on. Nobody ever put anything away after it was used, it would just be left. I didn't realise until well into adult hood that people would immediately put something back where it belonged after use, as a matter of course, everything from bottle opener to hoover was just left. Never sat at dining table due to being piled high with shit. Never taught how to do any chores or how to clean properly and manage laundry. Cupboards unusable as they were so jammed full of stuff. The furniture itself was good quality - plenty of art on the walls, sofas were expensive, good carpets when we had it - so I think this meant it passed as arty and bohemian but actually it was a tip

Never any clean uniform or Games kit which led to detentions at school. Yelled at for losing things when things inevitably got lost the minute they were set down. Difficult to study as the rooms were kept dark with the curtains closed. We were always late because of things getting mislaid. Clothes never hung up, just picked from a communal pile that lived in a walk in closet.

Friends would have been welcome, but by the age of about 8 I was too embarrassed to invite them,but of course I couldn't tell my parents that so I made excuses.

Parents had good jobs and were comfortably off, they just couldn't be bothered to clean or tidy as there was always something they'd rather be doing.

They insisted until they were blue in the face that it didn't matter, that life was too short to waste cleaning, that sort of thing, but actually all it resulted in was a dishevelled childhood where everything seemed out of control and chaotic. If I'd told them that the house was embarrassing they just would have laughed at me.

When I moved out and had my first child, I did what I knew and for about a year or two my flat was a mess. I didn't know how to keep things clean and organised, and I read things like that "dust if you must" poem that floats around and ignored 99% of housework because I was spending time with my child. But then I noticed the same thing happening especially when nursery started, being late because everything was lying everywhere or no clothes were washed or dry, "losing"new clothes or toys in the mess and only finding them once they were outgrown.... It made me realise that while obviously there's no need to go to extremes and scrub your loo with bleach and a toothbrush every day, there's a reason why being reasonably clean and tidy is seen as a desirable life skill. I had to teach myself how to manage a home and to do the most basic tasks thanks to the Internet

The state of my childhood home had a really negative effect on me, and I could see the same thing happening with my own child. no it's not neglect or abuse, but when your house is so messy that it's not a pleasant or comfortable place to be, or when the mess is causing regular stress and impacting on other ordinary bits of life, then your child probably would quite like you to do a bit of cleaning rather than a craft activity with them, certainly once they're a bit older. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think that level of mess doesn't impact on their children

OP posts:
Northernsoulgirl45 · 15/07/2020 19:54

I live in a large clutteted house with kids and a dh who are quite happy to leave their shit lying around. I do my best to tidy and clean but it is never enough.
I grew up in poverty so we didn't have so much stuff but our council house was always clean and my parents always ensured we had uniform etc. The house was damp though in places.
I think I am probably a bit of a hoarder. Not rubbish but probably keep stuff in case I will read it one day or need it one day.
Dh has a hobby which fills the house too.
I am ashamed of our house but I can't deal with it on my own.

Breadandroses1 · 15/07/2020 19:57

I find this super-interesting.

DP and his (4!) brothers and sisters are massive neat freaks- I've witnessed more than one of them getting twitchy in a holiday rental because the way the shoes are arranged displeases them, for example. DP will tidy up around people, and I've had to lose it at him a few times for throwing away important documents or post I hadn't put away yet (as in, it had been out for 30 minutes). My mum thinks it's hilarious to move the pictures so they're a bit wonky and see how long before he notices. I've had to train him into being OK with a few toys out...BUT- they grew up in chaos- total mess, too many kids, not enough space, parents who didn't know how to parent. One of his sisters won't let her kids touch mud or sand because of 'mess'. However, he has NO IDEA how to clean. When I first went to his flat his bathroom was incredibly tidy, but filthy, there were appliances that didn't work properly- he didn't really know that if your kettle leaked you could just go and buy a new one. No life skills. No one taught him. So a major reaction on the tidy front, but weirdly on only one part of the picture. He's asked me why I'm mopping something up when the cleaner will be coming (in 3 or 4 days usually).

Our house was pretty tidy growing up and cleaned through weekly but both me and my brother are really messy naturally. My brother has a dyspraxia diagnosis and I think I probably have it to a lesser extent- as does my dad. His mum's house was piled high with crap- when she moved into a home we opened one of the bedroom doors to be met with a wall of stuff. Any space my dad was in charge of was totally chaotic including his business space with his family- 30 years of rubbish lying around, you couldn't find any paperwork. They were always doing stuff like not invoicing people or losing bills. No idea how to manage it.

I just don't have the 'now pick that up and put it away' internal narrative I suspect tidy people do- I have trained myself to do this over the years (and both my mum and gran tried with both of us) but it takes me a long time and I often make more mess doing it (knocking loads of clothes off the hangers while putting some away, spilling stuff on the counters while mopping it up). I don't like it being messy, just feel like there's a bit missing in my brain. Weirdly I am quite organised at work, so it's a really physical thing. Our house is tidy but a bit cobwebby...

OverTheRainbow88 · 15/07/2020 20:00

I had a friend and I used to cry if my mum said I was sleeping at her house as it was so messy and without being rude dirty and smelly.

My parents were the opposite though and I was so scared of a dropped something and stained the carpet! Maybe a happy middle would have done!

BitOfFun · 15/07/2020 20:22

@WeWantSweet

Wasn't there an issue in the 70's/80's whereby some middle class social workers were accused by other more "right on" middle class social workers that to comment negatively on this sort of thing was being judgemental and therefore wrong. Oh dear..
Have you got any evidence of this happening, or is this just random social worker/PC bashing?
BabyDancer · 15/07/2020 20:22

I grew up in a messy home too, although my parents did always make sure we had clean clothes. I found it very embarrassing and stressful from an early age and vowed to never be like them. As a result I've always been quite minimal when it comes to 'stuff'. I'm definitely not super tidy but if the house starts to get a little too messy then it stresses me out. My parents would always get very defensive about the situation but strangely being on Furlough has made them change their ways. They've been working on the house non stop. I think the fact I'm pregnant with their first grandchild is also motivating them to get their house in order. My youngest sister on the other hand is really messy too. So it's funny how the same childhood can affect people differently.

Lollypop4 · 15/07/2020 20:29

My disgusting neighbours have 3 children, all about to be taken into care (finally) The smell of smoke from thekr house is disgusting, they are always dirty, rubbish piled front and back, Also dog muck through out the house, The children inevitably are neglected and their behaviour is obvious to see fron the mess theyve been brought up in, you often see then discard rubbish on the street themselves .
I honestly cant tell you how bad it is.

peaceanddove · 15/07/2020 20:38

I grew up in an immaculate showhome back in the 70s and 80s. My Mum cleaned the house every day and we had a cleaner. It looked beautiful but never felt homely. I swore I wouldn't do that to my children. Our house is probably tidier than most, and we do have a cleaner. But, I don't police my teens bedrooms, other than insisting their beds are changed once a week and dirty laundry in the laundry basket. From the age of eight my Mum had me cleaning beside her whenever possible, I could scrub a bathroom down like a pro Sad

anitagreen · 15/07/2020 20:40

My parents home is still like it now.
Growing up our house was a shit hole and I never had friends round because it was so bad. Toilets caked in skid marks couldn't see the floor for dirt and our toys. Beds rarely changed.

Walls always dirty, fridge always filthy and out of date food in it. Cupboards would be full of shite and out of date food along with new food.

Never had proper fitting clothes, things wasn't washed properly, hairs never ever cut which has stayed with me a lot and my hair still is very long now. But I hate having it cut.

Their house now is ten times bad and my young siblings are now growing up in that cycle, walls all have marks on, gardens dangerous in places, they'll cook a curry or whatever and leave it uncovered on the side so the cats will step on it or eat it and then they'll eat it Envy.
I can remember last year we went for a bbq and the food wasn't cooked properly everyone had food poisoning the next day.

Another time they had a bad ant problem and they left me a burger on the side, I lifted up the bun and fucking ants crawled out.

Another time a plate of spaghetti bolanase (not the spelling sorry) was left out my daughter stuck a fork in it trying to eat it and I think they was fruit flies that flew out of it.

I'm now very aware of mess, everything has it's place, my home is very clean and tidy kept to a high standard. I hate having visitors now coming round. I won't have shoes on my carpets.

I like my home to constantly smell fresh and change every ones bed once a week, the sofa gets washed every month. I only use a towel maybe once before it's washed and everyone has their own sponges.

Growing up if there was no loo paper you'd wipe your bum with the sponge then rinse it and out it back. Same sponge was then used for daily washes for all five of us and then for wiping faces, it makes me sad now.

Tunnocks34 · 15/07/2020 20:45

My house was a happy medium growing up I think. We were expected to keep our rooms tidy, and help tidy up the house too. There was no clutter really but we did have a ‘Monica style
Cupboard’ which was under the stairs which was effectively a massive dump of clothes and toys.

My house now, is always guest ready. I have a weekly cleaner and insist on no clutter. The kids are welcome to get all their toys out but they do have to tidy them up when finished and I can’t stand food in the living room. I also vacuum daily. Obviously mess makes me anxious, and although my OCD isn’t focused on tidiness, a messy house does make my OCD worse

RandomUser3049 · 15/07/2020 21:29

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

breadwidow · 15/07/2020 21:32

This thread is interesting. I was taking about this sort of thing the other day in relation to an old friend of mine whose house is pretty rank. I'm not as tidy as DH but both of us were pretty shocked by the state of it. I have always wondered about the effect of it on her kids. She and her husband are both very loving and attentive parents but I do think the mess is a bit much - their kitchen is dirty and there is crap everywhere. I think my friend is aware she is messier than most but I think she sees it as within normal range - I think it's outside normal but realise this is all based on judgement. She has told me that her mum and her childhood home was really untidy and her home is tidier than hers was a kid. I think I agree with posters who say tidying is a learnt skill/habit. I have got better at it over the years and find mess a lot harder to tolerate than I used to which I think is my DH influence as he is much tidier than me. So I find it interesting to read about people who've gone the other way as adults and reacted against their messy home. Maybe it's to do with how bad it was and then realising it had an impact - I think my friend doesn't see mess as a problem, she didn't moan about her messy home as a kid, it was just a fact that came up in passing.

Also thinking of partner influence, based on how my friends DH was a uni (I went to uni with both of them), I think he's tidier than her but prepared to tolerate the mess. With me and DH the opposite as happened - he's tidier than me and his intolerance of mess has def rubbed off on me over the years. I always thought my parents were quite neat and clean but I have found myself dusting surfaces in their house when visiting - I haven't seen them since pre lockdown so I wonder if I'll do this when I finally visit them next week.

Elsa8 · 15/07/2020 21:51

YANBU, I get really annoyed when I read those 'dust and clean later, they don't stay little forever' type posts. It doesn't take all day to clean the kitchen and push the hoover around! Our house isn't super tidy, there is definitely a bit of clutter and in the day the kids have their toys out, right now I've just noticed some sequins on the floor and there's a pile of clean washing that needs putting away, but it's never, ever so bad that I'd be embarrassed if someone came round unannounced. It's moderately tidy, a few places that are cluttered, but it is clean.

I grew up in a house that was just an utter tip when I was secondary school age, my Mum really let it go at that point (she had depression and my Dad was fairly absent). I remember clean washing just being dumped in the dining room which was basically an ocean of clothes, though I guess they were clean at least. You'd go in the kitchen and everything was dirty, the floor would always have loads of bits on, I mean proper grime caked on round the edges, not a few crumbs, Mum never scrubbed it. She was (and still is) a lovely Mum, but she is by her own admission crap at cleaning. I went round her house a few months ago and her bedroom looked like a teenager's, clothes all over the floor and dirty mouldy cups everywhere, you couldn't have walked to the bed from the doorway without stepping on things! I wasn't neglected as a child, but I do think she could have done more - it was embarrassing to have friends and later boyfriends over.

It took me ages to learn how to clean properly as an adult. I'm 33 now and I've honestly only really just discovered fabric softener for example!

AspergersMum · 15/07/2020 22:01

I've always thought that Flylady was aimed at autistic people or those with ADHD or other neurodiversity (not saying all neurodiverse people are untidy of course!). It certainly helped me as I literally didn't know what to do, having not learned how to schedule cleaning and do a bit every day. My mum is also autistic and she didn't learn routines from her also likely autistic mum. There is clearly a need for these training programmes about how to clean and when to do it so we can't have been the only family with a lack of knowledge running down the generations like this.

ilovebagpuss · 15/07/2020 22:02

This has got me thinking about visiting a friends house when I was a young teen and being so shocked at the mess. Their mum worked long hours and was a single mum there was shopping left in bags for the kids to rummage through for food and cat and dog shit all over the kitchen floor.
I remember saying should we tidy up the kitchen for your mum as I used to do quite a bit of tidying and helping at home.
My friend wasn’t embarrassed or bothered she was just “no leave it” and her bedroom was so messy.
It never affected our friendship as such but I didn’t fancy going round much. She had an older sister too and I couldn’t understand why they hadn’t got stuck in to help their mum.
Looking back it was their normal so they weren’t fussed.
There is definitely a fine line between tidy comfortable and clean but not afraid if a spill happens or accident so a lived in home.
I’m no cleaning saint but children need a safe tidy space to live in and I always make an extra effort if their friends are coming for a sleepover or hang out just so it’s tidy with plenty of snacks etc.

Jemmy360 · 15/07/2020 22:09

To this day I don't like people in my house due to the extreme embarrassment from my childhood. I didn't take my then fiance to my parents house for 3 years I was so mortified. It has lasting scarring effects on children.
My house now is clean and my parents think I am over the top with cleaning but I'm not, we have usual family clutter but not the decades long ingrained neglect their house had.
It was one of the reasons I wanted to live at my Nana's when I was 13.

SpinningLikeATop · 15/07/2020 22:16

YANBU. As a child, I lived between both my parents houses. One parent had a tidy house. One was reasonably tidy in the common areas, but nobody ever bothered to clean the kids rooms. So the room I slept in was littered with clean and dirty clothes (no wardrobes), toys, books etc. If we pissed the bed, it would be left like it. Nobody bothered to change the sheets for weeks.

It's disgusting. Te fact that the rest of the house was kept fairly clean means it was just that the parent couldn't be arsed. We were sent outside to play all day and only "allowed" in when it was dinner time (if they remembered to feed us) and bedtime.

I'm pathologically tidy, now, and can not stand clutter of any type.

BullshitVivienne · 15/07/2020 22:21

I'm wondering if anyone has ever broached the mess with a relative and had it go well?

SarahAndQuack · 15/07/2020 22:41

I have, @bullshitVivienne. Sadly, no positive results.

I regularly tell my parents it's bad. When they were overrun by mice they eventually (!) acknowledged it. They were much more prompt when my baby was a few months old and she got very sick, and we pointed out their fridge was a health hazard and not safe to store milk in. But on the whole, they just don't get it.

SuperMumTum · 15/07/2020 22:50

There was a guardian article about this a little while ago. The parent was a bohemian-academic type who would see cleaning as unimportant compared to reading, academic work, classical music, radio plays etc. There was no shortage of money and the parents were intelligent and capable. The (now grown up) child was saying what a deeply disturbing impact it had on him (despite his parents being otherwise normal) and he tried to address it with his mum years later, who dismissed his concerns.

It made me think a bit of my parents house. My mum just hates cleaning and would rather do almost anything than tidy up. She could easily afford a cleaner but having a clean and tidy house is just not a priority for her. It's not awful; she washes dishes and has clean clothes and runs the hoover round from time to time but surrounds herself in clutter and dust while reading books.

I struggle to stay on top of the cleaning and wish I could do more because I'm really aware of the impact on my kids. I'd would be so ashamed if they didn't want their friends over.

Gwenhwyfar · 15/07/2020 22:58

"My family home was both cluttered and messy, a bit like yours. What stays with me are the odd few times in my childhood a non-family adult would be invited into the home."

My great-aunt used to come round and blame us children for the mess. I'm sure we did make a mess, but we hadn't learnt how to be tidy either.

Gwenhwyfar · 15/07/2020 23:00

"She could easily afford a cleaner but having a clean and tidy house is just not a priority for her."

The problem is that if your house is really messy, you can't hire a cleaner. The place needs to be tidied before a cleaner can clean. My parents would have been too ashamed to let anyone see it as well, even if they could find someone who would do a 'How Clear in your House' type clean.
I could never have nominated them for that programme though because of the shame for the whole family.

Gwenhwyfar · 15/07/2020 23:06

"I think they was fruit flies that flew"

I get fruit flies in my food bin some summers and I don't think it's caused by my being dirty.

pollylocketpickedapocket · 15/07/2020 23:06

This really resonates with me.
I grew up in a very tidy house, not clean, tidy.
I wasn't allowed posters,anything messy.
Friends weren't welcome, never turned away but I always got the death stare, nothing was ever said to them.
Other people's houses seemed more relaxed and happier.
My house has always been ok but got progressively worse as my dd has gotten older, I'm in in the process of decorating and can't wait for her to start school in September.
I'll be working four days as I need that day to keep on top of things, it would break my heart to think she was embarrassed of me or our home

I've always kept clean bedding and clean clothes but I've suffered with pnd and sometimes it's difficult.

Gwenhwyfar · 15/07/2020 23:12

@BullshitVivienne

I'm wondering if anyone has ever broached the mess with a relative and had it go well?
When I was a child they blamed us children. Now they blame each other and DM isn't in great health any more anyway. I suppose it will get worse and worse! I insisted they wash one of the blankets that I sleep under when I go there. It must be about 100 years old (I know because it has my great grandmother's initials on it and I presume she was given it for her wedding) and it broke the washing machine. I'm too scared of insisting on anything after that! They also don't get that mattresses need to be changed every 10 years and I can't buy myself a new one for the bed there because I wouldn't be able to dispose of the old one. As I mentioned above, they couldn't hire a cleaner because the place is in a state.
madcatladyforever · 15/07/2020 23:12

I've always been a neat freak, I cannot understand how anyone can live in a state. If my house is a mess my head is a mess.
Everything has to be organised especially paperwork otherwise how can you enjoy life.
I was a single parent and my some loved bringing friends round to our house because it always looked nice and was cosy as well.
I think a chaotic hoarding house must be awful for a child.
My mother is a neat freak as well so it's what I'm used to.