To think that living in a very messy house does impact on children

[HeatingOnInJuly]

I was thinking of this based on the "small ways your parents fucked you up" thread so it kind of stems from that

My parent's house was very messy - they would say it was normal family clutter, and that it was cosy and lived in, but I'm not sure I've ever been in a house quite like it since, so I think it must have been unusually messy

Door handles would fall off and were never fixed, ancient carpets would be ripped up and the floor would be left, bare cement, for months. Piles of washing everywhere. Nappies bagged and left on the floor for days, though they made it to the bin eventually. Kitchen was frankly dirty, with sides invisible due to stuff being piled on. Nobody ever put anything away after it was used, it would just be left. I didn't realise until well into adult hood that people would immediately put something back where it belonged after use, as a matter of course, everything from bottle opener to hoover was just left. Never sat at dining table due to being piled high with shit. Never taught how to do any chores or how to clean properly and manage laundry. Cupboards unusable as they were so jammed full of stuff. The furniture itself was good quality - plenty of art on the walls, sofas were expensive, good carpets when we had it - so I think this meant it passed as arty and bohemian but actually it was a tip

Never any clean uniform or Games kit which led to detentions at school. Yelled at for losing things when things inevitably got lost the minute they were set down. Difficult to study as the rooms were kept dark with the curtains closed. We were always late because of things getting mislaid. Clothes never hung up, just picked from a communal pile that lived in a walk in closet.

Friends would have been welcome, but by the age of about 8 I was too embarrassed to invite them,but of course I couldn't tell my parents that so I made excuses.

Parents had good jobs and were comfortably off, they just couldn't be bothered to clean or tidy as there was always something they'd rather be doing.

They insisted until they were blue in the face that it didn't matter, that life was too short to waste cleaning, that sort of thing, but actually all it resulted in was a dishevelled childhood where everything seemed out of control and chaotic. If I'd told them that the house was embarrassing they just would have laughed at me.

When I moved out and had my first child, I did what I knew and for about a year or two my flat was a mess. I didn't know how to keep things clean and organised, and I read things like that "dust if you must" poem that floats around and ignored 99% of housework because I was spending time with my child. But then I noticed the same thing happening especially when nursery started, being late because everything was lying everywhere or no clothes were washed or dry, "losing"new clothes or toys in the mess and only finding them once they were outgrown.... It made me realise that while obviously there's no need to go to extremes and scrub your loo with bleach and a toothbrush every day, there's a reason why being reasonably clean and tidy is seen as a desirable life skill. I had to teach myself how to manage a home and to do the most basic tasks thanks to the Internet

The state of my childhood home had a really negative effect on me, and I could see the same thing happening with my own child. no it's not neglect or abuse, but when your house is so messy that it's not a pleasant or comfortable place to be, or when the mess is causing regular stress and impacting on other ordinary bits of life, then your child probably would quite like you to do a bit of cleaning rather than a craft activity with them, certainly once they're a bit older. I think people are really fooling themselves if they think that level of mess doesn't impact on their children

[Pesimistic]

I grew up in a not so clean or tidy house, me and my sister would clean it when we were teenagers and now I live in a very tidy and clean house, I cant relax untill its clean it actualy angers me if its dirty or cluttered. So it had affected me in that way I guess

[Misscoffeecrazy3]

My childhood home was like this, large family and penny pinching father resulted in a very poorly kept home. Damp on walls, disgusting carpets, repairs to the house that were never done (e.g toilet flush broken, windows wouldn’t close etc) dishes piled high, the kitchen floor so greasy you would slip on it. I remember a neighbour threatening to report my parents to social services. I’m definitely not like this with my own home and children, I’m not super tidy but make sure our house is clean and very conscious of germs that could be harmful to my children. I think it can be quite damaging as a child.

[4amWitchingHour]

Totally agree with this OP. Mine wasn't dirty, but it was messy - nothing had a home so nothing was ever tidy, there was just piles of stuff everywhere. My parents' house now is the same (they've moved twice since my childhood home), they would just rather be doing something else, or they'll "do it later".

It's made me react against it, so my house is generally pretty tidy - all my stuff has a home, although it doesn't necessarily go straight back to it. I struggle with my H though - he grew up with the opposite, his mum cleans and tidies everything within an inch of its life. He now reacts against that, so doesn't tidy up and doesn't find proper homes for his stuff because he wants home to be more relaxed, but it means there's still mess as I refuse to tidy up after him. That stresses me out and means our place isn't always visitor ready which makes me sad. Haven't worked out how to find our happy medium yet.

[OldPodge]

Very sad to remember. I grew up in a messy house and was ashamed to have friends over. Kitchen was always extremely cluttered and dirty. I got food poisoning as a small child (About 5) probably as a result. Would be considered a safeguarding issue now. I’m pretty messy myself now but make every effort to have a hygienic kitchen and bathroom.

[QuickNmChg]

@lunar1 I'm the same. I didn't have plimsolls for PE when I was little as mum couldn't afford them. It was humiliating. I definitely overcompensate now with my DC. They have everything they need, even if I have to go without myself to buy them.

And people that say they would rather spend their time being a mum than cleaning, are generally full of shit. They would rather be on the internet or watching TV than either cleaning or spending time with their DC.

[OhDear2200]

There is aspects I can relate to.

My one uncomfortable memory is that our bedding was rarely changed. I realise how gross that was.

Also reading what others have said I realise that cleaning does not come easy, I’ve had to teach myself how to clean and tidy and what is ‘normal’. For example I was really shocked when a friend said she washed her floors every week, then it dawned on me she was the normal one and I was the odd one!

[AmICrazyorWhat2]

I grew up in a tidy (but not ridiculously so) house and would like to have one now...but my children make continual messes!

They're not little anymore, so they should tidy up their mess- it's a constant battle. I'm hoping it's a teenager phase and they do have assigned chores (that they whine about).

Still, it's not horrible, just less tidy than I'd like.

[Regretsy]

Definitely safeguarding. Not saying any of this is abuse but as a teacher I was told to report (and did) any child with hygiene issues or extreme unwashed uniform etc, as it can be an indication of neglect. We also had a few young carers who looked after their parents, very sad.

[AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter]

I completely agree. Too much mess and clutter gives me real anxiety and I find a clean, tidy home so calming.

Obviously, that doesnt mean becoming obsessed with cleaning (thats unhealthy too) but having a dirty messy house WILL have a negative effect on kids because it becomes smelly, embarrassing and unpleasant to be around. Not to mention things getting lost which then cause trouble at school etc. Living in a dirty, cluttered house just screams that you dont care how your kids live and it is neglectful in my opinion. Wanting to live in a clean, tidy house is not a big ask and it doesnt mean you have to become obsessed with cleaning either.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

On the whole I agree with you. But I think any extreme is likely to be detrimental to most kids. Both chaotically messy and super neat have negative consequences most of the time, if only (apart from any sort of direct consequence like not having things you need for school or not being allowed to do something you love because it’s messy) because it will mean you have less of a shared experience with your peers. Normally that leads to stress and negative social consequences. With most things in life, moderation is the key.

[JaniceWebster]

Your childhood house seems very extreme, of course it would impact anyone.

I personally can't stand mess, my house is lived-in but visitor-ready at all time too. I come from a very tidy home, so it's not a reaction against anything
but I still see the difference between general happy mess and extreme and not really acceptable standards.

Well done OP for taking steps for your own child. Life is too short to look for missing or lost stuff, and it's so much quicker to maintain a tidy home than to bring it back to a tidy state.

[Confusedandhurt75]

My house is lived in, its clean and tidy but there will be toys on the kids floor, a dish or 2 in the sink, a pile of ironing to do etc.. it smells nice, theres always clean clothes, my windows maybe need cleaned more often and there is maybe the odd stain on the 6 year old carpet that I've not been able to get out but generally it's a clean and tidy house. My mums house was like this growing up aswell and we were taught at a young age to tidy our rooms, put dishes in the sink etc..

I had a friend and her house was disgusting stuff everywhere, would hoover once a week if lucky, never once cleaned her kitchen bin [sick] plus had animals that would wee on the floors. Her kids always look scruffy even when they were babies (dirty clothes, nappys that clearly needed changed!) and I used to clean the house and kids if I was ever there because I couldnt physically stand being in the dirt/mess. It's possible this could be down to how she was brought up and also just pure laziness.

I'm by no means a clean freak and my house isnt perfect but at least I can feel good that my kids are happy to have friends around and that I'm not ashamed of my house.

[JaniceWebster]

to add, you only have to read MN to realise there is no "normal". It's a balance.

Just start a thread about shoes on/shoes off, frequency of towel wash or frequency of bedding change..

and if you need to madly rush to do any clean if someone suddenly announces their visit, then you are not cleaning enough...you should be comfortable enough in your own home that it's clean enough for visitors.

[Mumoblue]

The house I grew up in was extremely dirty.
My mother had very bad depression and just sort of stopped doing housework.
Now as an adult, mess makes me feel anxious but I still have to remind myself to clean up.
I would describe my house as lived-in. Not messy but not ready for the Queen to come round.

[lunar1]

@QuickNmChg, that's the thing, my mum could afford them. She just didn't bother getting them.

It was really odd, we had 1:1 lessons in a sport neither of us liked which will have been expensive. But didn't have a pencil to take to school.

[isabellerossignol]

I grew up in a cluttered messy house and I hated it. It was clean enough, although not spotless, and it was more clutter than overwhelmed hoarding. As soon as I moved out I vowed that I would never ever live in a house where you have to move something in order to sit down. And I never have.

My siblings went in opposite directions. I'm a bit of a clean and tidy lover whilst other siblings became untidy hoarders themselves. One of them to the extent that eventually her children were removed from her care permanently. The saddest moment of my life was sitting in on the final meeting with social services where she was told that she had to choose between her belongings and her children, and without hesitation she chose her hoard of belongings because she said it was too painful to part with her 'stuff'. The stuff in question wasn't nicknacks, it was actual rubbish - mouldy milk cartons, kids toys that were smashed in two, dozens of boxes of Weetabix that were 15 years past their best before date. She's not a monster, she doesn't realise the harm she has caused to her family, and she firmly believes she is just someone who isn't interested in home decor and is just a little bit untidy.

[LadyPrigsbottom]

Oh YANBU at all! I feel so much better if my house is tidy. It rarely is tidy enough for the queen to pop over or anything. But it is utterly depressing if you live somewhere really messy.

I've been doing up my dcs rooms over lockdown. The 2 yo is too little to notice, but the 5 yo loves the new room so much! It didn't take much at all, and it was never a horrible or totally undecorated room or anything. But the difference a neat, child friendly room makes is huge.

It'll be so much nicer for inviting kids over for playdates etc when term starts in September. DH's and my room is...a working progress.

[HermioneMakepeace]

@lunar1 My PIL were like that. Plenty of money for expensive holidays and their hobbies, but no money to buy their DC decent clothes.

[LadyPrigsbottom]

@isabellerossignol

I grew up in a cluttered messy house and I hated it. It was clean enough, although not spotless, and it was more clutter than overwhelmed hoarding. As soon as I moved out I vowed that I would never ever live in a house where you have to move something in order to sit down. And I never have.

My siblings went in opposite directions. I'm a bit of a clean and tidy lover whilst other siblings became untidy hoarders themselves. One of them to the extent that eventually her children were removed from her care permanently. The saddest moment of my life was sitting in on the final meeting with social services where she was told that she had to choose between her belongings and her children, and without hesitation she chose her hoard of belongings because she said it was too painful to part with her 'stuff'. The stuff in question wasn't nicknacks, it was actual rubbish - mouldy milk cartons, kids toys that were smashed in two, dozens of boxes of Weetabix that were 15 years past their best before date. She's not a monster, she doesn't realise the harm she has caused to her family, and she firmly believes she is just someone who isn't interested in home decor and is just a little bit untidy.

This is heartbreaking . I'm so sorry this happened. But surely choosing your stuff over your children is indicative of a serious MH issue? I hope she gets better. How terribly sad.

[Sunrise234]

I think there needs to be some sort of balance. My mother kept a clean house but never spent anytime with me. As soon as I was old enough for school I was made to "play" outside so that I wasn't making a mess indoors.

I agree with this also. Walking on egg shells or worried about mess/germs is just as bad as having the opposite. A balance is definitely needed! I try and always let my DCs make a mess as well as make sure they always have clean clothes and bedding etc.

[PegasusReturns]

I grew up in a neglected/dirty house. I found it horribly embarrassing and definitely affected me in terms of being too embarrassed to have friends over once I got to secondary school.

I spent a lot of time cleaning it as a teen.

I now keep a tidy house. I couldn’t for example go to bed knowing there were dishes piled on the side.

[Natasha9511]

My childhood home was so so cluttered and full of stuff that now DP and I live with the absolute minimum. We have like 6 bath towels and even I think that’s too much. My mum had 3 shelves in the linen cupboard rammed with mismatching towels. Same with cleaning products, never used tho, but there would be random potions and lotions under the kitchen sink from god knows when, I keep the bare minimum because of it

[853ax]

@Confusedandhurt75 think I fit into similar to you. Clean but often messy. I have Friday off work so between that and weekend have place fine by Monday but .. as days go on my kids have it messed.
I'm interested hearing everyone here mentioning parents messy when young I'm wondering if it was because kids messy ? When we in house which is full time these days with school closed and WFH I'm always cleaning up after them. Clothes, paint, pencils, toys ...... Even if I give 8yo ironed clothes to put away often find them thrown on bedroom floor day or so later. When I tell her to bring down laundry it often those clean clothes bank down again ( she always takes short cuts)!!
Most stories here about kids living with messy parents but what about opposite ?
I was always super organised & neat until 3 kids & big house just can't keep up. Reading this thread I wonder will this be the attitude my kids have in future and blame it on me 🤔

[geojojo]

Yes totally agree. I grew up in a similar environment and am now obsessive about things being clean and tidy, probably too much. I find mess and clutter so stressful. Despite this I'm always nervous to have people in my house, thinking they will think it's dirty or uncared for. I only have people I trust in my house which I want to change before my children start school so they can feel they can have friends over.

[isabellerossignol]

But surely choosing your stuff over your children is indicative of a serious MH issue? I hope she gets better. How terribly sad.

Yes, definitely, it undoubtedly is a mental health issue in this case. I actually thought I had mentioned that in my post, but reading it back I can see that I didn't.

Unfortunately, unlike most mental health issues where the person suffering most is the one who is ill, I think hoarding is a situation where family suffer more. My sister doesn't want to recover from being a hoarder because she thinks that it is a minor issue and a fuss about nothing, that social workers were malicious and that she was falsely accused of neglect. So I'm not sure that it's actually possible for her to recover, because she doesn't recognise that she is ill.