What’s the problem with Trans?

[Karenista]

Posting for traffic:
Can someone please take the time to explain to me what the issue is with trans women? Or trans rights in general?

I consider myself a feminist, but since reading all the posts about publicly ‘coming out as GC’, I now feel... almost... not feminist enough because I believe in trans rights.

Where’s the middle ground? Or am I now going to feel alienated from ‘GC feminists?’

@Karenista

Posting for traffic: Can someone please take the time to explain to me what the issue is with trans women? Or trans rights in general?

I consider myself a feminist, but since reading all the posts about publicly ‘coming out as GC’, I now feel... almost... not feminist enough because I believe in trans rights.

Where’s the middle ground? Or am I now going to feel alienated from ‘GC feminists?’

There is absolutely no issue with people who are trans.

There is an ideological debate raging between GC feminists and a small subset of extreme TRAs.

Topoftheshops: it means Gender Critical. Essentially people who continue to point out that biology is real, and that sex is a protected characteristic.

Still don't know what 'coming out as GC' means - can anyone clarify?

It makes having the ovaries to say gender is bollocks, therefore living as a women is bollocks, gender identity is bollocks. Sex is the basis of female oppression not gender. And then waiting for the backlash of 'suck my lady dick, die in fire TERF-bitch'

Thank you @titchy.

I didn’t think I did either. I think every adult should be free to live as they wish (provided they are not hurting anyone) free from ridicule or discrimination. However, I do not believe women should have to budge up and handover their hard won rights, spaces and protections. Nor do I think children should be put on medical pathways with due appropriate due diligence.

And I still don’t know what rights transgender people currently do not have in the UK

[quote amijustparanoidorjuststoned]@DancingLady hi, there is much evidence to suggest that trans people are less likely to be allowed access to education because of discrimination.[/quote]
Please can you share sources / research that is evidence of this? All too often people make claims like this as if they are factual but then fail to return and share sources or statistics, which is part of the reason discussions on this topic become so divisive. So it would be great if you could buck the trend by sharing your sources for this. Thanks!

DadOnIce thank you!

titchy your definition scares me lol

Here is some useful information for you. I would also suggest you follow Munroe Bergdorf on social media should you wish to educate yourself further (I suspect not). HTH.

You really are the gift that keeps on giving, aren’t you @amijustparanoidorjuststoned

@CasuallyMasculine I really am. Take care x

And @amijustparanoidorjuststoned I'm more than happy to wait if you're busy, I just would really love to see research showing what you claimed re trans people and access to further education as you stated it as fact with evidence and I'm genuinely always keen to be as informed as possible on discussions about trans rights and women's rights.

An interesting thing happens on Twitter when you ask people the question:

'Do you believe women should continue to have all the rights they currently have in law?'

Seems a reasonable question, right? Surely the answer's Yes?

Not for some beardy WokeyBlokes , it isn't. Dear me. They tie themselves in knots because they know they will look like sexists if they say No, but they know that if they say Yes they are agreeing with the Equality Act 2010, which protects sex as a characteristic. They reply with stuff like 'You're trying to trap me' and 'It's a trick question' and 'You're trying to frame the question using a certain definition'.

It's quite fun watching them squirm.

Whose rights are most infringed in these circumstances?

• a frail elderly woman wanting intimate care such as bathing provided by another woman or trans woman whose feelings are hurt when she rejects them from providing this service?

• the traumatised rape victim being intimately examined who requests a female nurse provides this awful necessity or the trans woman traumatised by being rejected in providing it?

• the female DV victim being asked to share a room and even communal showers with a trans woman in a refuge?

• the vulnerable female prisoner being asked to share a cell or other facilities with a trans woman convicted of rape?

• the child that is now being asked to call Daddy "Mummy". Being told they are still the same person, even though they have been lied to for most of their life about their parents identity?

• the heterosexual wife whose expected to remain in a "lesbian" marriage and is castigated for not being understanding when her husband of 10 years comes out as trans?

Most TW retain their male genitalia. Most do not pass as women.

It's obvious in the vast majority of cases that the person is not female.

I support people's right to dress and identify how they wish.

I don't support self id or the damage that women are expected to suck up to validate a mans feelings.

[quote amijustparanoidorjuststoned]@CasuallyMasculine I really am. Take care x[/quote]
I will take care not to laugh too much just as long as you promise not to post any more bullshit. Deal?

@Karenista
The other really thought provoking article that came out at the weekend was a piece in the Sunday Times magazine that interviewed female to male trans who now regretted their decision and were de-transitioning back. The main area of concern was the what looks like the complete failure of the medical professionals and so called support networks that had little or no professional curiosity examining underlying mental health, trauma, societal and / or homophobia that underpinned the decision to undergo radical and life changing procedures and treatment,
The link is behind a paywall but I’ll try and find it.

Hahahahaah. ODFOD. That's for you ami thanks but I dont think Munroe can tell me anything about being a woman, as I... am one. Take your patronising bullshit elsewhere, you're no kind of feminist at all.

HTH.

I dont know why people answer these threads. It’s clearly some one trying to poke a hornets nest for Twitter thrills.

OP, here’s the link to the archive version of the Times article timetospare refers to:

archive.is/y4LtD

@Timetospare thank you very much

[quote CasuallyMasculine]OP, here’s the link to the archive version of the Times article timetospare refers to:

archive.is/y4LtD[/quote]
Super, thanks

@CasuallyMasculine
Top work
I hope many more people read it, but it made me weep.

Prison cells
Rape crisis centres
Female wards in hospital
Female psychiatric units
Domestic violence shelters
All women shortlists
Gynaecological procedures
Counsellors for survivors of male sexual violence

This is such an important list - trans women have to have rights, have to have support, must have the same protection we all should get. I am totally happy to use a person's preferred pronoun to address them. I wouldn't - and don't - use trans slurs any more than I'd use gay slurs, and I have two friends with trans children - children I love.

However, I believe strongly in the absolute necessity of having women-only spaces like the ones in the list above because those places are the places women are most vulnerable, most at risk and in need of most protection. To eradicate spaces where women are protected would be as ridiculous as trying to eradicate trans women. Trans women need their own protected spaces, they need their own spaces where they're cared for and supported fully. That doesn't need to come at a cost to women. It can be additional, not either/or.

It comes across as a very male-dominated idea that women should slide over to make room for trans women rather than men and women both helping carve out space for trans women and men where they're equally protected and welcomed.

[quote Timetospare]@CasuallyMasculine
Top work
I hope many more people read it, but it made me weep.[/quote]
Me too, timetospare.

Those poor women.

@Wearywithteens said it so much better than I ever could.

Identifying as a woman does not give you the life history and experiences of a woman, does not open you up to the same vulnerabilities of a woman and does not change your biology.
Of course trans women should be protected too but they need their own safe spaces not access to ours.
Only women should be in a womens toilet, refuge, hospital ward, changing room.
I wish people wouldn't say cis women, just women is fine, no prefix needed. It is just fake "woke" nonsense.
Nothing irritated me more than the twits from Harry Potter jumping on the cool bandwagon, well and truly chewing off the hand that fed them in the process.

Hahahahaah. ODFOD. That's for you ami thanks but I dont think Munroe can tell me anything about being a woman, as I... am one. Take your patronising bullshit elsewhere, you're no kind of feminist at all.

I stand with @DancingLady

Here's a link to some responses to questions.

photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOwetuUmIgGwmTmu9rcxDdWeOMbKpckEyvqpT49pz2yemZYS3rNYqH16pZc5IuLcQ/photo/AF1QipN16HiFNk-NJigaUFyi0m3LjpYEYam02812SLM_?key=VVlEX21sNXAzVEprMGZmWmNqd3RPc1RiN095STdn