To feel annoyed at school motto

[WeasleyWoman]

DS's primary school is CofE state mainstream. Its official motto is love hope forgiveness or similar which is great but on all letters they now say. Learning for Life: Ready to take our place in God's World.
I guess this shouldn't matter but it pisses me off. Why is it his world? Why not our world? The children's world? It might as well say Learning for life: ready to bow to the patriarchy and conform.
Aibu

It's a faith school. That's what you get. And is why I wouldnt send my children to a faith school. If my kid's non faith school did that I'd be tamping, but really its what you need to expect at a faith school. They are required to demonstrate how they bring their religion into all areas of school life.

@happypoobum allowing your children to be indoctrinated isn't a standard part of embracing a culturally diverse society.

We're lucky enough to live in a rural area with some non-faith schools. There were villages we didn't look at when house hunting as the village primaries were faith schools and there was no guarantee of securing a place at a non-faith school as we wouldn't have been in catchment for one.

Some rural areas have fewer schools with no real choice.

Even non-faith schools are required to hold a daily act of collective worship of a broadly Christian nature. The extent to which schools do this often depends on the beliefs of the headteacher, so can change as the headteacher changes. It seems anachronistic when more than 50% of the UK don't consider themselves to belong to a religion.

Religious school has religious ethos shocker

This really is the most annoying thread in the world! My nearest four primaries are church affiliated, and we’re in the suburbs, not even rural.

I send my DS to a CofE school as otherwise the chances are I’d end up home schooling (ha, that worked out well). It pisses me off he’s taught Christianity as fact. It’s just wrong and confusing to do that to kids in the 21st century.

It's a lovely motto and fits completely with the fact it's a Church of England school! Finding their place in the world, is what schools do! Educate so they can have a future! as for The religious element of religious schools is not just an add on its party of all of their learning. You need to consider whether this education is what you want for your child.

As it’s a CofE school I would suggest you get a copy of the Bible and start at the beginning - you don’t need to get very far in before you find the answer to your question.

Sorry if I’ve got confused... it sounds like your school has a motto as well as a vision statement that it puts on letters. Maybe they have, indeed changed their motto.
I understand your angst OP.
My nearest middle school was eight miles away and it was a church school. Given that I’m basically a heretic , I found it very difficult.
I’m of the opinion that church schools should be funded by the church ( by Jingo it’s rich enough) and by funding from parents who wish to have a religious education for their darlings.
State schools should be free of any collective worship and only teach RE as a subject which studies all religions equally.
But this is not what we have now.
Even County Primaries have assemblies thanking God for whatever and bring in groups like The Family Trust to push their ideologies.
Short of moving your children to another school even further away, I’m not sure what you can do.
Sorry OP.

@WeasleyWoman
What alternative metaphysical narrative that includes everything and everyone at every instance of their existence in the past, present and future across different language and geographical barriers would you prefer? Is there an alternative that perfectly represents the abstract manifest in its physical reality that also accommodates the human need for autonomy and choice and purpose amongst the great inequity of our existence and futility of our relatively short lifespan (compared to say, a tree)?

Don’t send child to a C of E school if it bothers you. They have to include god it’s kind of the point..

@Davincitoad

Don’t send child to a C of E school if it bothers you. They have to include god it’s kind of the point..

Argh!! Not everyone has a fucking choice!!!

@Babdoc

People aren’t calling for schools that will indoctrinate children to be atheists. They are calling for secular schools which are neutral towards religion and teach universal values like kindness and tolerance. There is a huge difference. It is not an unreasonable request.

Just because something can not be disproved does not make it true or anything more than a belief. Beliefs are highly personal and people of all religions/viewpoints deserve the same consideration hence why secular schools can be suitable for all.

Lamphat: Argh!! Not everyone has a fucking choice!!!

I don't think that is true, someone can object to only being offered a faith school which wouldn't be a problem as faith schools are over subscribed anyway.

However, op, how much notice are the children going to take of the motto? I can't even remember what my school motto was.

This thread has really, really fucking annoyed me.

I cannot understand how, in 2020, we have people (lots of people, apparently) who think it is OK for our state-funded education system to inconsistently preach arbitrary religious doctrines to our children.

I also cannot understand how, given the hand wringing and anxiety that goes on every year around school applications, that people are insisting that every parent has absolute freedom to choose exactly which school their child attends, when this is demonstrably not the case.

And I am fucking livid that many state-funded schools actually include a faith requirement in their admission criteria. So that a child's access to education is determined by whether its parents worship the right fairies at the end of the garden.

I get that this is where we are, and that unravelling it is hugely complicated (not least because much of the land that schools are built on is owned by the church), but the idea of defending it is beyond me.

However, op, how much notice are the children going to take of the motto? I can't even remember what my school motto was.

Same for my Primary which was C of E aided. In a country with an established Church, Bishops in Parliament, religious abbreviations on coins, religious education in classes, school assemblies and so on you can't escape this heritage. Whether you buy into it with belief, give it lip service, rail at it or laugh is another matter. I can cope with a motto and shrug if necessary.

Think positively,

At least it's not 'Live, laugh, love'.

I went to catholic schools all through my education. Nuns were a big part of my life. My family are Protestant -I am neither, but what it did give me was the ability to critically analyse information given as fact. It also gave me a great understanding of a religion, on which a large proportion of this county’s laws, institutions,traditions and art have been based for well over 1000 years. It has given me the ability to have a deep understanding of lots of things and a deeper appreciation and joy of and in the world I live.

If you believe your children can be indoctrinated to have a faith maybe look at the way you are bringing them up, are you raising them to critically analyse things, to stand up for what they believe. If they can’t stand up against a few hours of RE every month, are you confident that they will be able to stand up to other ideas pushed on them growing up, to work out for themselves what is valid? What if they do find a faith through being exposed to it -is this what you are actually afraid of, your kids being exposed to ideas that conflict with your own.

Okay. Straight to the end, having read up til 5.30pm.

I. Am. Paying for this education. I am forced to pay out to support religious based education which I do not agree with. Given that the schools concerned are the local primary.

That's why I have a say. And why I say it's about time that parents who want a religious based education for their child, in Britain, in 2020- should pay for it themselves. Not expect me to pay for your child's indoctrination, along with my child's.

So to 'What do you expect, duh?', I'd say 'to not to have to fund the pushing of your belief in a sky fairy on my children at my expense'.

How about that?

@miljea, I completely agree with you.

So, lifeisgenerallyfun, you're okay with your DC learning critical thinking skills via fighting back against 'truths' taught to them at 4....

MN is full of people discovering via decades of therapy that they're not bad, damaged, unworthy people, having been made to believe 'stuff' as young children.

Fair enough. I'd prefer a scientific, evidence based system, myself.

People who say ‘just send your kids to a non faith school’ - do you really have the choice
Where you live? All primary schools near me
Are church schools. The closest non church school is far enough away that my children would Never get a place.

Lizzy 'we can shrug'. Plenty of people across the face of the globe over hundreds of years thought they 'could shrug'- at the indoctrination of children in school, belief systems at odds with our own; but heigh ho.

An aside, I went to C of E primaries from '66. God barely got a look in. A bit of 'All things bright and beautiful', a nativity, vicar once a week talking to us about respect in relationships etc; but none of our teachers bought into any of it. None appeared at church on Sunday, inc the head teacher and teacher-husband. It was C of E Lite. But no one would have dared to push a 'God made our wonderful World' agenda from the school!

BUT religious affiliation is a rising force in the UK, and in the western world. 'Christians' got Trump in. Russia is manipulating the Eastern Orthodox Church into being the established faith.

In the UK, parents are feigning faith to get DC into certain schools. How can that be okay?

But let's not 'shrug' at a time when we should be shining bright lights into dark places. You want your child educated, or indoctrinated into your faith? You pay for it.

Remember this same 'system' allowed comps in a couple of places in the Midlands to become Islamic schools.

I don't understand what referring to "God's world" has to do with bowing to the patriarchy and learning to conform, just can't see the connection. If you object to references to God send your child to a more secular school.

I do not think faith schools push faith on pupils much nowadays, they tend to be quite liberal in many respects and a lot take people of other faiths.

There are no faith schools near me but there is a faith primary, comp and sixth form college a 'bus ride away for which parents jump through hoops in order for their children to attend even though they haven't set foot inside a church apart from weddings! I think they're bonkers but each to their own.

All three schools have very good reputations in all respects and none of the kids are indoctrinated.

Repeat - children won't remember the school motto.

jessstan am really pleased to hear that your DC have experienced no'indoctrination'. Tho you appear to not have DC in these schools. Hi him.

It's great that you 'don't think' schools 'push much nowadays'.

Maybe you need to RTFT.

@Miljea - of course you are welcome to your views. I think though you have little understanding of what a religious based education is, any successful indoctrination would be down to the laziness of parents from your post it sounds like you have little concept of what science is as well.

My child has variously come back from school believing things from various faiths as facts, learned from RE lessons and his multicultural class mates. Most of what we teach kids at school is some watered down version of the true picture.

At 8 he understands that different people believe different things and that’s ok and should be respected. Love is better than hate. As parents it is up to us to ensure our children have the necessary skills to find their own path in life. Very few people I went to school with have faith as adults and have not undergone psychological trauma “unindoctrinating” themselves.

Our children are “indoctrinated” every day and various gods are worshipped, be it a supernatural divine entity, or a god of the more material plane, wealth, beauty, youth or whatever the latest hashtag is. Have you allowed the media to become your new church? Indeed science itself is often wrongly held up to be this omnipotent deity that can immediately and objectively provide the answer to Every question. Think about the priorities you put before your children, have you substituted one god for another? In order for a child to find their own way they need to be exposed to lots of things and concepts. School is only one medium for this. We should bring our children up with open hearts and minds not in echo chambers.

I think there is value to a religious education, it provides a framework for dialogue to take place. Simply being exposed to one set of beliefs, even if presented as facts, does not preclude you believing something else.

So yes a 4 year old being exposed to religion does not bother me, even if it is a single religion shown as fact, no more than telling our kids about Santa, the tooth fairy etc, in fact I have less problem with the religious side of things as it holds value in providing a moral framework. Most people’s morals reflect those taught in religions anyway. In fact I used to take my son to church - not because I believed in the CofE theology, but because I thought it important he was exposed to and understood part of the traditions of this country.

Now he’s 8 he believes in evolution, an historical figure of Jesus and reincarnation. He’s also rather partial to classical mythology. School is only a small part of bringing up an educating a child. I would be disappointed in myself as a parent if I let one world view override every other possibility life has to offer.