To feel annoyed at school motto

[WeasleyWoman]

DS's primary school is CofE state mainstream. Its official motto is love hope forgiveness or similar which is great but on all letters they now say. Learning for Life: Ready to take our place in God's World.
I guess this shouldn't matter but it pisses me off. Why is it his world? Why not our world? The children's world? It might as well say Learning for life: ready to bow to the patriarchy and conform.
Aibu

Lol, @NightSpot. That would have been faintly sinister!

OP, I think you're reading too much into it. I am not a Christian but I don't find the statement offensive. To me it reads the same as if it was 'taking one's place in the world'. Lots of schools have a Christian ethos even though they don't actively promote Christianity. 'Love, hope, forgiveness' etc. are universal virtues which also happen to be Christian.

I've seen children go through faith schools - CofE, Catholic and Muslim, and they've all come out fine, not overly zealous or dogmatic in the least.

Whatever the reason, you have chosen to send your child to a religious school - of course they are going to include God in their motto, not to mention religious lessons.

Also they have probably just changed the motto for a SIAMS inspection

I agree OP.

My son goes to a Catholic school. We’re not religious. Fact is as we live rurally, there isn’t any another primary school within a reasonable travelling distance, so there isn’t much choice.

I wish they’d get rid of religious schools completely. They’re receiving State funding to indoctrinate children. How is that acceptable in this day and age?

Surely if people want their children to have religious teachings, they can do that as an activity after school/on a week-end?

If the only school in my catchment area was a faith school and I didn't want my child indoctrinated in that faith, I wouldn't be living there.

It's an absolute choice.

It sounds like a backwards step, I liked the previous motto. But I guess you did sign up to CofE so they'll be getting the God stuff on a regular basis anyway.

there will definitely be state schools in catchment, albeit further away

Not in a number of areas around here I'm afraid; I only wish there were

Religious practice (and-especially-faith based selection) has absolutely no place in state funded schools

I agree absolutely. Religious education yes, as in ab&c believe xy&z, but actual instruction and practice defnitely not (unless it's arranged and funded privately and outside school)

Trouble is, even in supposedly secular schools it's not always that simple. All it takes is one especially staunch member of staff trying to earn favour with their religious leader, and before you know it you've got pure dogma being pushed onto impressionable kids

Where I live there is only one school in each catchment area, so if you want to stay in catchment and that school is CofE then you don’t have a choice.

Most church schools don’t get additional funding from the church, mores the pity, but you do get the pleasure of an additional inspection.

I expect they are wanting all children to be able to understand how important faith is and to live their life in accordance with the school values, at least that's what it says on the school website.

Unbelievable how many people on here are not reading the whole thread and are accusing the OP of choosing to send her child to a CofE school.

It just shows how urban-centred Mumsnet is.

In rural areas there is often no choice! How many times does it need to be said. If you live in the catchment of a CofE school then the only option you have if you dont want your child to go to a church school is to send them miles away and sort the transport out yourself. And then hope that any younger siblings get a place at the same school even though they are out of catchment.

Of course no state schools should be affiliated to any religion (and I say that as a Christian) but the fact remains that until the system changes, many people living rurally have no choice.

Err because it's a C of E school and they believe that it is his world?

@EmmaGrundyForPM

Unbelievable how many people on here are not reading the whole thread and are accusing the OP of choosing to send her child to a CofE school.

It just shows how urban-centred Mumsnet is.

In rural areas there is often no choice! How many times does it need to be said. If you live in the catchment of a CofE school then the only option you have if you dont want your child to go to a church school is to send them miles away and sort the transport out yourself. And then hope that any younger siblings get a place at the same school even though they are out of catchment.

Of course no state schools should be affiliated to any religion (and I say that as a Christian) but the fact remains that until the system changes, many people living rurally have no choice.

If it's the school I think it is then there are many other schools locally which are not church schools, it's an urban primary school in the middle of a city.

RandyLion, indoctrinate children? Really? Would you prefer them to be indoctrinated with atheism?
You have no proof for your belief that God does not exist and that Jesus was a liar. So your belief system would be just as open to a charge of indoctrination.
More so, in fact, as millions of people across the world and throughout history have had direct encounters with the presence of God. Atheism can never prove a negative.

Could be worse. Mine was, for a short time,

"Where girls come first"

Took several weeks before it was changed to something else!

If the only school in my catchment area was a faith school and I didn't want my child indoctrinated in that faith, I wouldn't be living there

Sounds good in principle doesn't it? But as long as church/school affiliation's in place, all it takes is a change of Head and/or governing body for that appealing, reasonably relaxed school to turn into something very different

You have no proof for your belief that God does not exist and that Jesus was a liar. So your belief system would be just as open to a charge of indoctrination.

Come on now, you can't use the burden of proof argument when you believe something that can't be proven.

That's what faith is really, believing something despite a lack of absolute, finite evidence.

More so, in fact, as millions of people across the world and throughout history have had direct encounters with the presence of God. Atheism can never prove a negative.

They are anecdotal encounters though. I have no problem with you believing people's stories of them, but they are not proof of anything at all factually. Again, that's what faith is - belief without proof.

My mum is religious and she's lovely and kind. She doesn't put pressure on me to "prove" I am right to be atheist, nor do I put pressure on her to "prove" she is right to be Christian. We wouldn't ask that of each other, but if she did ask me then I would point out to her as I have to you that the burden of proof argument falls flat because the burden of proof cannot be on the atheist - it doesn't make sense for it to.

This thread theme comes up again and again. You don't get to piss and moan about religious references in your child's CHURCH school. If you don't want a religious school, don't send them to one. Why is this so hard to understand?

I'm an atheist but from a Jewish background. My dc goes to a C of E school...it's fine. We have some interesting philosophical discussions and I tell him he can believe whatever he wants but to always be respectful during prayers at school etc.

@Casschops

This thread theme comes up again and again. You don't get to piss and moan about religious references in your child's CHURCH school. If you don't want a religious school, don't send them to one. Why is this so hard to understand?

Because actually we can moan about it if we like

I donate £4 a month to the Humanists who do great work in legal challenges against this sort of nonsense. Worth a look.

humanism.org.uk

That's what faith is really, believing something despite a lack of absolute, finite evidence

The King James Bible said as much (Hebrews 11):

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"
"... without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him"

@pinkyyy People should be ashamed of themselves ridiculing those who choose to believe

People don't get to be special because they believe anything. We should ALL treat each other well, regardless of beliefs.

The only reason I brought up your comment was because you said outright that 'It IS God's World' and I just think that's awfully tone deaf. It's your opinion, yes, but opinions are not facts.

@happypoobum

If the only school in my catchment area was a faith school and I didn't want my child indoctrinated in that faith, I wouldn't be living there.

It's an absolute choice.

So there should be "no go" areas for those of other religions and no religion where families that don't want a state education with indoctrination shouldn't live?

I find that quite a grim, unwelcoming picture for what should be a diverse and welcoming society.

Justajot

No - because if you didn't care about it you would live there and get on with it. You would be doing exactly what you advocate, embracing a culturally diverse society.

I honestly don't know of anywhere near me that only has one school you can attend (South East) so it's just not an issue here, but I do accept it may be the case elsewhere in UK. The lack of choice is a government/LEA issue though, not the fault of the schools themselves.

Secular schools ... have a worldview as well, the kind that says things like "finding our place in our world". Secular schools being the only ones available would mean that anyone who has issues with that sort of wishy-washy humanism is going to find it inadequate and equally have no other choice

I'd suggest that comes down to what we each feel school is for. To me, providing all are cared for and valued, the overriding focus should be on education - and yes that includes belief systems, presented as information rather than facts

There are after all endless places of worship, community groups, private faith based schools, etc, for those who want a deeper religious experience or even outright indoctrination ... but none of those need to involve the taxpayer and state sanction