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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel annoyed at school motto

292 replies

WeasleyWoman · 14/07/2020 15:23

DS's primary school is CofE state mainstream. Its official motto is love hope forgiveness or similar which is great but on all letters they now say. Learning for Life: Ready to take our place in God's World.
I guess this shouldn't matter but it pisses me off. Why is it his world? Why not our world? The children's world? It might as well say Learning for life: ready to bow to the patriarchy and conform.
Aibu

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 14/07/2020 16:23

Do people still believe that there are secular state schools and/or that people can always choose whether their child attends a faith school or not?

back2good · 14/07/2020 16:24

I think a lot of posters are missing the fact that for many people, CofE schools are there catchment schools and they have very little real choice in what school their child goes to.

Around here, if you don't go to the catchment school, one of which is a CofE school, you'd have to then sort your own transport to another school, assuming it had room, and a lot of families can't do that (no car, job issues, etc).

So, tbh, I don't think state schools should be tied to a particular religion.

Goosefoot · 14/07/2020 16:25

Secular schools aren't actually neutral though. They have a worldview as well, the kind that says things like "finding our place in our world". Secular schools being the only ones available would mean that anyone who has issues with that sort of wishy-washy humanism is going to find it inadequate and equally have no other choice.

user1493494961 · 14/07/2020 16:26

In any case, Doris lives at No. 34.

Ivalueloyaltyaboveallelse · 14/07/2020 16:28

Our religious school has also changed the motto to something very very similar although it can not be the same school as our one is rubbish for children with additional needs. Considering looking at new schools it’s that bad.

PanannyPanoo · 14/07/2020 16:31

We had as religious moto - as a PP mentioned this is not a directive from the individual school. However, when I saw it on the newsletter this term I felt it was inappropriate. It is a multi demonination school. we have families from many different religious backgrounds and many atheists.

The assumption that the Christian way is the right way and all other religions are learnt about - they 'cover various festivals and religions' but call assemblies collective worship and thats all Christian.

I really struggle with the religious aspect in primary schools. There is no place for it. I wrote to the Head and explained my discomfort with the new letter Head. That it would immediately ostracise many of the families, and make them feel they didnt belong. I also pointed out that if I had been looking as a new parent and received paper work that was so blatantly religious I wouldnt have gone to look at the school.

He took my letter to the Governors who agreed. They now just use the first part of the tagline - so in your example the 'Learning for life bit' and use the religious reference in paperwork that is directly used for Siams.

I would raise it with the Head. Explain why you feel so uncomfortable with it. You may find there are many others who feel the same.

I

ChikiTIKI · 14/07/2020 16:33

Thanks for explaining @HoneysuckIejasmine

I think I misinterpreted it because I am a bit hostile towards being told what my place is in life.

NightSpot · 14/07/2020 16:33

Maybe it is just me, as an atheist, and having little knowledge of or interest in religion although my DH is religious, but I read it as "God's World" meant heaven Shock and thought why are they preparing them for death? Confused Grin

Karenista · 14/07/2020 16:33

@SoupDragon, state schools are secular. I have no idea why you’d suggest they’re affiliated with a faith.

@Goosefoot, just because schools have a government issues responsibility to nurture children’s spiritual development doesn’t mean they aren’t neutral.

Karenista · 14/07/2020 16:33

Issued*

Fatarseflanagan09 · 14/07/2020 16:34

Just add it to your list of things to be offended by.

GingerScallop · 14/07/2020 16:38

Other than annoying you, how does the motto affect your life or your daughter's. You seem to be looking for something to be upset about. We can help you with a better list. Otherwise, take her out n look for a school with a motto you like (who cares about quality of education when there is a motto that reflects the values but needs fixing heh?)

Babdoc · 14/07/2020 16:39

Sunmerfish, you say you have a problem with the vicar praising God for giving us food at the Harvest festival, then collecting for the Foodbank.
Why is that at all problematic? God gave us a world full of food - it is greedy and selfish human beings who do not share it fairly. And Christians like your vicar who try to do God’s will by collecting donations of food to give to the hungry. That is practical Christianity in action, and part of what OP’s C of E school will be teaching her child.
Knowing that God loves us all, and has a place for us in the world, is encouraging and supportive for children - it shows them that they matter, and are cared about, whatever their home circumstances or level of achievement. To complain about a motto seems nitpicking by comparison!

SoupDragon · 14/07/2020 16:41

state schools are secular

No they aren't.

Goosefoot · 14/07/2020 16:42

[quote Karenista]@SoupDragon, state schools are secular. I have no idea why you’d suggest they’re affiliated with a faith.

@Goosefoot, just because schools have a government issues responsibility to nurture children’s spiritual development doesn’t mean they aren’t neutral.[/quote]
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

No school offers a "neutral" perspective, it's nothing to do with being secular or religious. Bu many people seem to mistakenly assume that a non-religious school is neutral.

It's often worse if the school thinks they are neutral, because they treat the perspective they are teaching from as if it is objective and obvious, rather than being reflective about it.

As long as different people and families have different perspectives, there are going to be less than perfect matches between schools and families. Even if there are no schools with religious affiliations.

SoupDragon · 14/07/2020 16:43

All maintained schools must provide religious education and daily collective worship for all registered pupils and promote their spiritual, moral and cultural development.

That is not secular.

NotMeNoNo · 14/07/2020 16:46

School mottos are probably decided by committee and I expect nobody was happy with the rather clunky result. Judge a school by their care and education not by their letter paper.

Flowers009 · 14/07/2020 16:46

God means creator of the world.
You don't have to believe in God (religious) to have common sense that the earth and human beings didn't just appear from a black hole

lazylinguist · 14/07/2020 16:46

I find it really annoying on threads like this when people completely ignore the frequent reminders that some areas basically only have village CofE primary schools. They are the local state provision in your catchment area. In order to avoid sending your child to a religious school, you might have to drive them miles away and thereby separate them from the other children in their village.

This isn't a trivial thing and it's not unreasonable to be angry about it. State schools should not be church schools in a country where so few people are actually practising Christians.

I'm a staunch atheist but sent my dc to our very small village school because we were new to the area and I wanted my dc to make friends with the children in the village and not be outsiders. Fortunately my (now teen) dc have grown up as staunchly atheist as dh and me.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/07/2020 16:47

The schools now get state funding but have retained their church link

It's a while since we've had a thread like this, but for me this is where the problem lies
FWIW I've no problem at all with any church pushing their own doctrines with their own money, but I certainly have when they use everyone else's - especially when it involves a near-monopoly on schools

No doubt they enjoy the position they've been allowed to gain, but in today's world - at least for me - it's about time it stopped

HoneysuckIejasmine · 14/07/2020 16:48

Can the Government afford to take on all schools though? CofE schools are often still owned by the church and certainly gain funding from it too. If the government had to buy them all and fund them all fully... Would there be the will?

KisstheTeapot14 · 14/07/2020 16:49

If it's god's world, you can explain he has a lot to answer for in terms of pointless cruelty and war.

I'd be irked too. I'm not anti-Christian, and went to a faith school as a child (they were pretty cool Catholics even though I knew by age 11 that it wasn't the path for me) but I would deffo find the motto hard to live with.

Maybe get one of those sighs made for your living room, but instead of love, laugh, live it says 'Not God's world/don't bow down to the patriarchy'. You can look at it with a happy smile as you munch your toast as breakfast.

balloonsintrees · 14/07/2020 16:50

@PhilODox schools are secular in ethos, RE is taught as an academic subject and stop referring to an act of daily collective worship. It stopped being that about 20 years ago and is an act of togetherness not necessarily religious in nature, though can draw on core religious, philosophical and ethical ideals for inspiration.

KisstheTeapot14 · 14/07/2020 16:51

Ps. Nine Inch Nails and Rage against the Machine good breakfast time musical backdrop.

Discuss with child how we don't have to agree with everything school tells us, or the government. We are free to make up our own minds.

In a way it's good training for a life of overt/covert rebellion.

maras2 · 14/07/2020 16:52

40 odd years ago DD insisted that God was a man,
'Why DD'?
'Because God is a man's name of course, Mum'
'Err Okkkkay'
She was at a C of E school at the time.

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