So pubs and restaurants can open but partners coming to scans are still a big no no?!

[Dee96]

I'm just so infuriated by this and cant believe no one else has picked up on it. I'm not one to complain, and I understand that the economy needs the pick me up but I just think the government has their priorities all wrong. Yet again their actions are based on their best interests, and are completely money orientated. I dont understand how pubs have opened up without the compulsory need to wear a mask or take any precautions other than a pathetic attempt at social distancing that lasted no time at all, yet my partner still cant come with me to my scan? And before people argue that this isnt a big deal, maybe not for some no. But for some women scans are an anxiety driven time during an already scary situation, and the need for emotional and physical support of a partner is crucial, especially for those that dont get good get news. Why is the farther of these babies still viewed as a plus and an outsider to these medical needs, they should be included as part of the package deal along with the mother. They have every right to be there. I understood and had patience at first when everything else was on lockdown and this restriction was implemented, but now I cant rationalise it anymore. Surely someone going out to drink and standing next to a complete stranger of a different household poses more of a risk than my partner being allowed in, at a safe distance, wearing a mask whilst I have my scans. I really just had to get this off my chest since I feel it's so injust and us first times mums really mean nothing. It's bad enough were so vulnerable during this time, and miss out on certain appointments/care but for our needs to be pushed aside for the sake of a pint really gets to me. I had my 20 week scan yesterday and felt like walking right up to the reception to demand an explanation, the only thing stopping me was I knew it wasnt right to take out my frustration on the poor people that are doing their best to work for us during this time.

@Nat6999

I'm shortly going to be visiting out patients to find out if I have a life changing health condition. I'm disabled & Autistic, as well as terrified, they have already told me I can't take a carer with me. I wanted to take 16 year old ds with me as he is my carer & also as I know that if I get upset any information they give me will go straight over my head.

I'm sorry. Expecting a 16 year old child to carry that burden on top of all the other responsibilities he has is completely unreasonable.

I think they should prioritise opening schools if they want to get the economy back on track so parents can go to work.
Never mind bloody pubs!

I can see why hospitals want to keep the numbers down still OP.

I do appreciate it's difficult, I'm pregnant and have had 12 week and 20 week scans alone. I've had bad news at a scan before as well.

We also have a young child due to have an operation and only one parent might be permitted for the whole 7 days (and we may have a newborn then too depending on timing now)

But I absolutely understand why these restrictions are necessary for all the reasons given. Extra footfall doubles risks and could have serious implications for hospitals and patients. It's not essential for partners to be present and at this stage hospitals feel it's in the best interest of patients not to allow it, which I imagine will be gradually reviewed as it already has been in some trusts.

It's completely irrelevant that people can go to the pub if they want to, and actually the economy is essential to fund things like the NHS and everything else, so I don't think it's actually wrong to consider the economy as well.

I was incredibly lucky to be allowed 1 person with me at my 20 week scan which helped my mental health massively (I m low risk but there's rare heart conditions in my family and I lost a parent quite young to one so just wanted to know their heart was healthy) and the rest of the appointments I ve had alone.
I can accept going to appointments alone to protect the staff at the hospital, it's the labouring alone that my main worry.

As it's my first baby and although I don't want anyone in pubs etc to lose their jobs and am not due till October, I m gradually losing hope that labour and postpartum will be what I hoped it would as the hospital is showing no sign of changing from their 4cm dilation rule or allowing visitors for particularly long on wards .

I feel for any women who have experienced trauma that puts them off a vaginal examination but will force themselves into it so they can be allowed their birth partner as soon as possible.

You will probably find that it's down to your hospital making these policies not the local government or MP..
I live in the area where the government brought and housed people from China and other covid areas and that is the hospital in which I will be giving birth within the next few weeks.. (Arrowe Park - on the wirral) they have stopped partners attending scans and antenatal appointments but haven't stopped partners attending births or staying with mother and baby until the end of their stay.
There is a local Facebook group for this hospital who have said all along that this was the hospitals decision and not government guidelines or local governments or MPs, as hospitals assess their risks and weigh up all options based on their own research and patient base.

This shows as the the women's hospital over the water in liverpool, Which is 10 minutes away by car, are not letting birthing partners or anyone attend atall for the birth or scans as they had deemed it too much of a risk for staff and patients. - I'm unsure if this has since changed for the women's during the last few weeks as it's not my local hospital and not where I will be giving birth I haven't stayed up to date on their policies.

As horrible as it may be not attending appointments and scans with your partner, this will have been looked at with all patients, staff and families best interests taken into account.
Even though my partner will be allowed to attend with me it's still a scary thought that there may be a possibility my daughter is still at a risk of being exposed to covid.

I get it, OP: it seems crackers that really important, stressful things (like having someone with you when you hear potentially life-changing news, or marking key life changes) are kept tight and strictly controlled, whilst unimportant stuff is being opened up and managed (like being able to have a pint in a pub rather than at home; or being able to pop into primark or Next to pick up a new pair of socks). I can see the reasons, but it does feel like such a shame that other methods of ensuring the support is present aren't being better explored. Can those with more understanding of the potential dangers explain to me why people can't have someone with them on FaceTime/through video calling? Or why pregnant women can't take a photo or video of the live scan? That would create no more risk to HCP or other attendees, but allow people to feel supported. We know that when people are under stress, they don't listen or take info in - I recently supported my mum as she was undergoing cancer treatment. I took loads of notes as often she didn't take in what she was told - her brain just couldn't process it - and it was especially obvious in those meetings where she had new/unexpected news (good and bad)

Well personally I don’t want to be farting around with a phone while I’m trying to concentrate on what the sonographer is saying and I realise people will say that I don’t have to, but it creates an expectation amongst partners.

Honestly? I would like to give birth alone. I’ve been the same since I was very young that if I’m in pain or ill I just want people to leave me the hell alone until I feel better (I’m very nice normally, I swear, I’m not I’ll much! ) But because it’s now the norm to have partners in I have to place my own wishes on the back burner.

That will be what happens with phones. You do get pictures, after all.

@AndwhenyougetthereFoffsomemore I don’t understand why you can’t video the screen either.

They say it’s for data protection - but the scan printout has all the same information as on the screen anyway.

I’ve had a number of private scans in my pregnancies - not ones just for fun, but diagnostic ones at Private Fetal medicine Units and have always been invited to video the screen when Dh couldn’t attend due to work or childcare. Why won’t the nhs allow the same?

I can understand why no FaceTime etc - but ten seconds of videoing the screen at the end wouldn’t be the end of the world.

Thing is @californiansealion, that's absolutely fine and your choice (own it and go with it, I'd say: in both my births dh has said he felt a bit pointless once the real work started, as I went 'inside myself' and hardly knew he was there ;-).
But for lots of women that's NOT their choice - and we've moved to a model where fathers are more involved in pregnancy because we know it impacts positively on outcomes overall. So to row away from that and not put options in place to keep that emotional support and engagement in a different way, making use of the myriad of tech options we have at our disposal ... feels a bit of a shame.

@n3wmum20

You will probably find that it's down to your hospital making these policies not the local government or MP.. I live in the area where the government brought and housed people from China and other covid areas and that is the hospital in which I will be giving birth within the next few weeks.. (Arrowe Park - on the wirral) they have stopped partners attending scans and antenatal appointments but haven't stopped partners attending births or staying with mother and baby until the end of their stay. There is a local Facebook group for this hospital who have said all along that this was the hospitals decision and not government guidelines or local governments or MPs, as hospitals assess their risks and weigh up all options based on their own research and patient base.

This shows as the the women's hospital over the water in liverpool, Which is 10 minutes away by car, are not letting birthing partners or anyone attend atall for the birth or scans as they had deemed it too much of a risk for staff and patients. - I'm unsure if this has since changed for the women's during the last few weeks as it's not my local hospital and not where I will be giving birth I haven't stayed up to date on their policies.

As horrible as it may be not attending appointments and scans with your partner, this will have been looked at with all patients, staff and families best interests taken into account.
Even though my partner will be allowed to attend with me it's still a scary thought that there may be a possibility my daughter is still at a risk of being exposed to covid.

My friend gave birth at the women’s over a month ago and her husband was allowed there

@californiasealion

Well personally I don’t want to be farting around with a phone while I’m trying to concentrate on what the sonographer is saying and I realise people will say that I don’t have to, but it creates an expectation amongst partners.

Honestly? I would like to give birth alone. I’ve been the same since I was very young that if I’m in pain or ill I just want people to leave me the hell alone until I feel better (I’m very nice normally, I swear, I’m not I’ll much! ) But because it’s now the norm to have partners in I have to place my own wishes on the back burner.

That will be what happens with phones. You do get pictures, after all.

And that's perfectly fine as your choice. But that really isn't the way most women feel which is why maternity and pregnancy has moved on to include the fathers more. It's easy for you to be happy with the current set up as it's exactly what you want, sadly most women don't.

You are definitely nbu. In my country schools have been closed since mid March and won’t be open (and also it’s a maybe) until September and I drive through my town where there are adults ( mainly , as children have been totally vilified in this) outside cafes , restaurants, lots of people in hotels ( in fairness our pubs have much stricter rules than in the Uk so no packed bars here) and yet in September our kids will not have been in a school in over 6 months...
And in your case it’s crazy that partners can’t attend births!
I hear you also about your partner attending scans but in reality though once/if you have other kids that becomes sort of normal (well in our case as no one to look after other kids)
Best of luck to you and your baby

But greyt the point is that I do feel a huge amount of pressure to have my partner at the birth because of the way society has evolved.

I’m not saying that because of my personal feelings hospitals should continue not to allow partners in; I am suggesting it is perhaps not the tragedy it is being made out to be.

@californiasealion

But greyt the point is that I do feel a huge amount of pressure to have my partner at the birth because of the way society has evolved.

I’m not saying that because of my personal feelings hospitals should continue not to allow partners in; I am suggesting it is perhaps not the tragedy it is being made out to be.

I'm not saying this to be patronising, but have you given birth before? I also thought I wouldn't much need DH because I tend to go 'into myself' when in pain, but the experience was quite different to any other pain I'd been through before and I really wouldn't have wanted to be alone in a way I wouldn't have expected.

Trust me, the worse the pain the MORE I need people to back off!

It isn’t patronising, I do understand people are different. For me I think it is because I have been conditioned to be nice (even to DP) so where my head is saying FUCK OFF LEAVE ME BE my mouth is saying okay then. But yes, this is something that’s been consistent for me throughout my life, I just don’t like company when in either physical or mental anguish. I think I will be having a planned C section anyway.

I think they are doing thier best to keep any potential infection away from the hospitals and should be supported in doing so.
It's a tough time but going for a healthcare appt is not the same as going to the pub.
A lot of sacrifice is going on people are going to appts,invasive investigations and difficult treatments alone because of covid restrictions.

Although I recognise that @californiasealion 'a personal preference, and my own, doesn't take away from the fact that others benefit from a partner present I do agree with her about giving birth alone and yes I have given birth

I don't mind DH being there and he probably will as he'd like to be but I've asked him to leave me alone! It's just something I'm happy to get on with on my own but I'm a bit of an introvert anyway

For me it wasn't the degree of pain that was different, it was something more fundamental that I can't quite describe. I was also really unprepared for how dismissive of my own experience the professionals around me were. I was told I just wasn't in labour and pushing, whatever I thought, and so nearly gave birth in the triage room (I was rushed to labour ward and gave birth 20 minutes later). I think I would have given birth without any assistance without DH advocating for me, which is quite a scary thought as it was technically a high-risk pregnancy. I obviously very much hope you don't have that sort of experience but sadly it isn't that uncommon to need an advocate when giving birth in a way that I, personally, have never encountered in other medical circumstances.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just to say that it can be hard to predict what you'll need in labour until you're actually doing it.

I do understand @californiasealion I’m the same.

Even though my section this time carries a lot of risk, I’m happier doing it alone. I cope much better with stress when I’m alone. Even the waiting before surgery will be easier.

My last birth Dh made things worse. It was his first child (my second) and he obviously didn’t know what was going on. He actually stressed me out though the waiting and the surgery.

My first section was alone. My ex h was away with work and I went into labour before my planned date. Everyone thought I’d be upset and I had friends and family offering to come and be with me, but I was far better off alone with only myself to concentrate on.

@OurChristmasMiracle

Pubs are open because vulnerable people have the option of not going as socialising in a pub is a preference or a want not a need

Hospitals aren’t open because vulnerable people Need to be there.

• so someone like a cancer patient is not likely to be able to avoid going to the hospital but could avoid going to the pub.

Hospitals provide life saving care that people need. Pubs don’t.

Cancer patients are another group who often need a support person.

The idea that this is unnecessary is just wrong. It affects medical outcomes.

I agree with pp that some midwives and hcps can be totally dismissive with women in labour for some bizarre reason so good to have an advocate.

Also @californiasealion, have you had any children yet? I’m also the same in a way as I want to be left to it when in pain , I don’t want my back rubbed/comforted etc but found it totally different in labour. I needed do drink a lot of water and needed help moving around in labour, practical things that dh was able to do and was needed.

@1990shopefulftm
Please please do not feel that you must consent to a VE in order to have your birth partner with you.

Copied and pasted:

Do I have to have a vaginal examination to assess whether I am in established labour?

No. You always have the right to decline any intervention, including vaginal examinations (VEs). If you have given your consent to a vaginal examination under pressure, for example, because you have been told your partner cannot join you until you are in established labour, your consent may not be valid and the healthcare professional could be legally liable if they proceed with the VE.

There are other ways for an experienced midwife to tell if you are in established labour (around 3-4cm dilated) and therefore ready to be admitted to the unit if that is your plan. If you are still in early labour, you should have the option of returning home with your partner. If there is any doubt about whether you are in established labour or not, you should be admitted to the birth centre or labour ward if there is room.

From www.birthrights.org.uk/2020/03/12/coronovirus-how-will-it-affect-my-rights-to-maternity-care/