Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

She's effectively trying to control your opinions by threatening to end your friendship if you dont get on board. That alone is crazy.

What does her family think?

She sounds crazy. I would not support anybody who wants to do this.

The idea of a non medicalised birth always sounds lovely and chilled, almost idealic. I know my hypnobirthing felt very relaxed, however with all my dc i could have lost them during birth. Though saying that i would have died alongside dc1 is if free birthed, possibly with home birth too.

Apparently 6% of pregnancies result in mild preeclampsia and 1-2% in severe preeclampsia. If she stops appointments at 20 weeks she'll have no way of knowing whether she has it.

So, a 7-8% chance of something that can kill her and the baby without medical intervention. Nice.

I honestly think if she doesn't even have a qualified midwife there then she's a bloody fool.

Zero judgement on women that quickly give birth at home before baby arrives.

But it's a terrible selfish idea from day 1.

I'm glad you and your son survived unharmed thanks to your sensible choices and good professional help, OP. I hope she and her child do too, but it will be thanks to luck.

Yanbu to not support her choice. I'm not surprised it triggered you.

Except for emergency situations I doubt there has ever been a community any where in the world at any time in history that hasn't had some form of local women who are known for being the ones to assist other women in birth. Obviously in modern times that would be trained midwives but in the past it would of been skills passed down through the generations and every woman would of known who to call on when labour starts. A elder wise woman or community matriarch for example. Even in cave times there were probably certain women in the tribe who were the ones who knew what to do and how to assist.
Your friend is very silly. Very.

I watched loads of free birth videos and I think they helped me have a lovely relaxed homebirth. I personally wouldn’t have wanted no midwife - although they almost missed it because when I called to say the contractions were very close they said I sounded like I had ages to go.

I needed stitches even after a very straightforward delivery. Is she planning to present at a hospital after the birth for that?

I would always support a woman's right to do that if she really wants to, but would advise against in all cases. I was fit & youngish; both of my DC's would have died without special equipment and skilled professionals. Going into hospital is best IMO and yours, but it's not up to us..try not to worry so much - it might all be fine, a lot of it is luck!!

I agree with you.

If I had a free birth, I'd have jsit thought I was in v slow labour
I wouldn't know that with every contraction his heart rate was dipping, and when he finally came out, if he finally came out, when he was blue he would have died. He had an undiagnosed CDH, a large one, he needed fully ventilating (for weeks). I couldn't talk to your friend in anyway vaguely supportive so I'm your position, I'd siggest brr discussing her birth at all

@amylou8

I'm all for choice, but surely this is just crazy. As parents don't we do everything we can to keep our children safe once they are here? Why would this not be the case during birth? I hemmoraged giving birth to DD, in what was my 3rd and low risk pregnancy. She'd have been fine, but I would have died 18 miles from a hospital with no medical support.

That might be a good way to couch it.

She is thinking about the birth as being all about her at the moment, probably because the baby is still a "thing" rather than connecting with it. Once it is moving and she finds that she can commune with it, she may feel differently. I would wait until she feels that connection and then talk about how "we" all know that birth is the most dangerous part of a babys life and that you felt a duty to do all you could to get it through that safely, at whatever cost to yourself.

Might help her see it differently.

And maybe ask her how many bad outcomes she has read about on the Freebirthing groups. Ask her why, if there are none, Freebirthing is not advocated by more feminist/natural birthing advocates?

Encourage critical thinking.

My baby was head down and I had a really low risk pregnancy. But he was facing the wrong way, and in distress, losing oxygen. My midwife led water birth turned into forceps, epidural and theatre. You can't tell until it happens.

I'd try and keep in touch to be a voice of sanity. It's a wierd crowd she's getting into with this!

Does she know, for example, she could have a home birth with a midwife present but minimal intervention unless necessary?
Or, if she really doesn't want a medically qualified midwife, an experienced doula would be better able to raise the alarm if things weren't going well.

I had a great pregnancy and no issues a few years ago. Then I haemorrhaged minutes after birth due to placenta accreta that wasn't noticed previously. If I hadn't been in hospital I would have died. Ended up with 4 blood transfusions and a balloon occlusion.

You're friend is naive to think just because she's ok now doesn't mean she will be after birth. I would distance yourself.

@rosiejaune I disagree completely. Being in hospital does not usually cause you to have a PPH, your baby to need resuscitation, meconium to cause an issue, the babies arm to come out first etc. These are things that can and do happen regardless of where you give birth. There may be instances where being in hospital causes intervention to happen that wouldn't have at home or in a MLU, but many, many potentially fatal complications arise due to no fault of anyone's.

Giving birth, on the whole, is safe. However, freebirthing is so, so dangerous. The complications which can occur in labour, if untreated, can literally have life and death consequences. I'm passionate about home births and would support anyone to have one in the right circumstances, one of which is the availability of midwives.

If she stops contact after 20 weeks, that would result in a safeguarding referral.

It is illegal for anyone but a midwife or doctor to deliver a baby, except in an emergency, so the partner would be breaking the law by delivering the baby having planned to do so.

I also think she has mental health issues. What would possess anyone to attempt delivering a baby without experienced professionals to help them in case anything went wrong? I had no idea how to push. The midwife had to put her fingers inside me and show me as I was getting it wrong.

I wouldn’t even attempt a home birth living that far from the nearest hospital.

If the only options were highly medicalised birth or free birthing the I could understand the decision but that isn't the case in the UK. We're incredibly fortunate to have (mostly) midwife led delivery which can be at home.why wouldn't you take advantage of that!

Your friend is being very unfair by demanding you "get onboard". Don't try and convince her not to go through with it, you've made your views clear. I would reply along the lines "I'm sorry you feel that way as I would hate to lose your friendship but it's a shame you can't see this from my point of view, having nearly lost my son in childbirth for you to insist I support freebirth when I do not is hurtful and very unfair"

Not really the point of the thread, but there were 200,000 incidents of raw sewage being discharged into rivers in England last year...not really an ideal welcome into the world.
I'll join the list - started off as a home birth, two days later I was in theatre having an EMC and a transfusion.

OP I completely agree with not being able to support her in this; could you pick up the friendship post-pregnancy, when hopefully she will have a happy & healthy baby to enjoy?
There's lots of water under the bridge however over the next few months...

What's her issue with having a midwife there even just to coach them?
Ask her if she would complete an MOT on her own car?
She will say no.
Ask her why.. she has no idea about the intricacies of a car engine and no understanding of safety limits and what standard is acceptable to pass an MOT.
If the car isn't determined road worthy by a qualified mechanic, then she could be putting lives at risk by driving it.
Same thing here..

Is covid a factor in this OP? I've heard that in some areas home birth is not an option as they can't spare the midwives, maybe that's driven your friend to make this choice?

I was low risk - it went horribly wrong. If I'd decided to freebirth, I'm pretty sure we'd both have died.

Your friend is naive and playing with fire but it's her choice. Let's hope she doesn't regret it.

my second was a low risk pregnancy - my daughter came and she wasnt breathing ... the Drs tried for 5 minutes to get her breathing but she would take one gasp and just go again, thankfully they got her breathing but it was the scariest moment of my life to see her like that.

I would never put my baby at risk and that is exactly what she is doing. why would you screw the consequences .. for what?? what would having a free birth with no one else there prove? sounds like she just wants the story and i couldnt be friends with that.

Have either of them actually been involved in many births or small babies? It doesn’t sound like it. She seems to have the misguided opinion that babies just slide out while you meditate and listen to whale music.

Yes some do but not the majority! The trouble is that MOST births go pretty smoothly but if something goes wrong it tends to go REALLY wrong and then your baby is dead

And as someone upthread said, most women tear with their first child and a reasonable number of these need to be sutured.