Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

Completely outing but please tell her I had a cardiac arrest during my delivery, clinically dead for 6 minutes. If I wasn't in hospital I would have died.

Would her midwife even allow this once they find out? Don't know much on this, but surely they'd see this as a risk that's detrimental to the NHS. What if something goes wrong, the baby/mother dies and the father sues?

I think she's insane to be honest. I'd want all the help I could get, and all the painkillers they could give me. I am a wimp about pain though, but I still wouldn't want to be doing it without a doctor there.

What is her reasoning behind this? Why no midwife appointments?? I agree it’s her choice but this putting herself and her baby at risk so I couldn’t keep quiet. I Planned a home birth for my second but it was cancelled due to Covid. I had the home assessment still though before the cancellations and they went through so many birth preferences with me down to music & lighting etc. They also said how much do you want us to interfere so I’m sure your friend could say she’d want to be left alone with her husband only as much as possible

I am not going to push it and to be fair, she asked for my opinion. I gave it, honestly. She text me when she got home telling me she cannot have contact with me or be my friend throughout her pregnancy unless I can get onboard and be positive about her having a freebirth. Sorry but I can't do that. It's not just her body. It's her babies body too and as much as I understand it's her decision, I can't be happy, smiley and positive about it.

My labour went perfectly. My son was head down, perfect position, seventeen minute push phase, no tearing, no stitches - perfect. Healthy as anything. There is absolutely no way I could have done it without the incredible midwives - there's just no way. As just one example, I'm sure I would've torn to shit if I hadn't had a midwife teach me massaging techniques in late pregnancy and had one press a wet towel there whilst I pushed. Midwives aren't just there in case something goes wrong or for moral support. They actually do do something - your friend doesn't seem to recognise this.
My birth was the best a birth can get and there's 0% chance I'd choose to go it alone.

Honestly I don't know a single person who got the labour they 'wanted'. So I'd have just made some vaguely supportive noises with confidence that it probably wouldn't happen anyway.

She might need to be shown the statistics of both infant deaths and deaths in childbirth from the time when it was normal to give birth at home without any medical assistance. People did not always 'just know' something was wrong and even if you do, being half an hour away from a hospital could be the difference between her child living and dying. She really, really needs to listen to her midwife.

I think you were right to tell her this is a bad idea. We do over medicalise birth a lot, and I’m very pro home births - particularly for subsequent births when the woman is low risk as they’re actually the safest option statistically - but they’re still attended by qualified midwives! Her husband has no training, it’s just dangerous and ill informed. Something can go wrong quickly that might not need an ambulance but could absolutely need a midwife.

Oh lord what a risky thing to do for both of them.

I think if I was in your shoes I’d walk away then. It’s her choice to have a freebirth if she really wants one but you don’t have to support her with or without your circumstances. I wouldn’t and couldn’t fake support.

I had my 2nd child in a home birth. Not a bath tub but a hired birthing pool. There was a midwife present but she didn't deliver the baby, I delivered him myself.

It was very safe as very low risk of anything going wrong and if something did, I'd have had an ambulance called. Statistically same risk as a hospital birth.

What your friend is describing is riskier admittedly as I assume its her first and there will be no midwife present, she's also further from a hospital. However, I think your experiences have made you feel it is riskier than it really is.

Would I do what she is planning? No. But it really isnt up to you - why end the friendship over it? It clearly won't change her mind. So just give her your support on it and move on. She'll probably change her mind anyway.

Had I tried this, I would have bled out. Childbirth is THE most dangerous thing most women do in their lives. I think you should suggest she goes down the private midwife/doula route, who I am sure would agree to be very unobtrusive if asked.

Does she realise that childbirth is not just pushing out the baby? Would her husband feel competent to deal with the placenta, checking it is complete, clamping the cord etc?

My DS2 was born at home, delivered by his dad. Not by choice - super speedy birth and midwife had to take a detour because of storms blocking a road. Paramedic arrived when he was ten minutes old.

It was textbook and lovely in lots of ways, but the only reason I didn’t lose my mind with worry was that I knew they were all on their way! It just seems selfish to reject help, not just for her and baby, but for her partner too - it’s a huge responsibility to take on.

At my booking apt with DC1 the midwife kept insisting that home birth was actually the safest option. It may well be statistically, but there was no way I was taking the chance as a first time mum and already being anxious about the risks. Good job I went for a hospital birth as it was an unmitigated disaster, DS born with emergency forceps requiring resuscitation and a week in PICU and I lost almost 4 litres of blood. wouldn’t have fancied either of our chances at home.

As an aside, would it not be massively uncomfortable to labour / give birth in a bath?

She actually sounds like she has mental health issues. She is endangering her own life and that of her child.

No I couldn’t be either OP. I had a friend who had a PPH after delivery. If she hadn’t had prompt medical intervention then she would have died.
Homebirth? Worth considering.
No qualified person anywhere near the birth? Not a hope in hell.
Let’s hope she comes to her senses.

@Doordine I cannot support it. How will I feel if I start faking support and being positive about it and her baby dies or is injured? I couldn't live with myself.

At least one of my kids and I would be dead if we had tried this. That's true for a lot of women I know. If she was a 4th time mum with an experienced husband and several easy labours under her belt, that might be a different thing.

There's nothing you can do to stop her, but if my friend was about to do something stupid and dangerous, I wouldn't be able to avoid saying something.

DS2 was an emergency c section. He wouldn’t have been here if I wasn’t in a hospital. No way I could support any friend that wanted to do this. I don’t think I could actually be around them throughout their pregnancy knowing what they were going to do I’d be way too anxious about it.

Did I read somewhere (on here?) that it's against the law to give birth with an unqualified person to deliver the baby?

The sheer number of women on this thread alone who would've died or lost their child had they attempted this speaks volumes.

My son was head down at 36 weeks. Breech at 38. Head down at 38+3 when I had to go for assessment. Breech 38 + 6 when I went in for section.

Her scan could mean fuck all.

Doordine a freebirth and a homebirth are very different; being >18 miles away from medical assistance is very risky. Midwives call ambulances go homebirths at the first chance of something going on and the ambulances can assist quicker by receiving a call from a healthcare professional.

FWIW, homebirths are actually less risky if you want to speak statistics too.

She sounds rather selfish. It's all about her, no concern for her baby. She also doesn't sound like a great friend, do you always have to agree,with her? I'm assuming neither she or her husband are medically trained so how will they know if something is wrong? Answer is they won't until it's too late.
Obviously it's up to her but I don't think I'd want to know about it so would happily not see her until after the baby born.

And also not to scare her but with my second I was low risk, young, zero complication, head down spontaneous labour etc. Perfect labour up until the last 20 minutes where my babies heartbeat dropped dramatically. Crash team were called. Thankfully everything was fine but it’s put me off a homebirth let alone a freebirth! Anything can happen