Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

@BalloonSlayer

Did I read somewhere (on here?) that it's against the law to give birth with an unqualified person to deliver the baby?

As far as I know it would be illegal for,the husband to assume the role of midwife if this has been planned in advance.

I had my youngest at home, and because it was precipitous (planned homebirth) the midwife didn’t arrive until about 3 mins before he did.

My middle D.C. was supposed to be a homebirth, but at the time I felt I needed a midwife, none were available (v busy night) so off to hospital I went, but was discharged less than 2 hours after he was born (Which was about 20mins after I got to the hospital).

I am seriously uncomfortable with the idea of freebirthing, in spite of having homebirth and trying to avoid medical intervention if I could. Not least because I needed stitches all 3 times.

My blood pressure shot up dangerously, it certainly wouldn't have been apparent to anyone looking at me.

I'm all for choice, but surely this is just crazy. As parents don't we do everything we can to keep our children safe once they are here? Why would this not be the case during birth? I hemmoraged giving birth to DD, in what was my 3rd and low risk pregnancy. She'd have been fine, but I would have died 18 miles from a hospital with no medical support.

I think you said the absolute right thing!

My SIL has very quick, unexpected labours, and has had two of her three children at home, because after discussion with her midwife and doctor, it was agreed it was much more sensible to plan to do this than for her to try to get to a hospital knowing she might very likely give birth en route (she nearly had her first on the way to the hospital). Despite everyone involved knowing she had a very fast labours, she still almost delivered her second baby before the midwife arrived - the baby's head was out as the midwife came in through the door. No complications; and in many ways it is obviously lovely if you can give birth in nice familiar surroundings and then be cuddling the baby in your own bed minutes later. Even so, and even though the only way she could have avoided it would have been camping out a the hospital for weeks/getting the midwife to move in, it was frightening for both her and my brother, and not easy at all.

You would have to be an absolute fool to play around with this sort of thing deliberately.

Oh and lets face it, none of us had any idea how painful birth can be (isnt always but thats rare!) so at the moment she probably really thinks that she will get the 10-14 hours of the average first birth (average....could be a lot longer) condensed into half an hour of sweaty breathing it away a la Call The Midwife, followed by 5 minutes of pushing.

A real time video of a home birth (so she cant blame the hospital) might put it into perspective for her.

Youre right to try and change her mind. I had the perfect pregnancy but i honestly beleive me and my lo would have died had i given birth 100 years ago. I think if its 2nd pregnancy its personal preference. The first absolutely not

Yes, but also @speakout, the rest of that paragraph:

"Healthcare professionals should not refer a woman to social services solely on the basis that she has declined medical care, as she is legally entitled to do so. Social services referrals should be based on an assessment of whether there is ‘a significant risk’ of harm coming to your child after they are born."

It has to be more than just wanting a freebirth, though wanting a freebirth can be one factor in the decision to refer to social services.

Even for straightforward births, there are usually some complications which need to be dealt with by medical professionals.

95% of first time mothers experience some sort of tear. Who is going to stitch her up down there after the birth? Her DH? .

Here is a link to a podcast from the Free Birth Society for those who are interested.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/free-birth-society/id1231912533?i=1000474728964

In your shoes I would have to distance myself from her as well for my own mental health (I had a traumatic first birth)

She does sound a bit precious saying she can’t be friends with you.

I have had 3 DC and am really not keen on hospitals / anything medical (for child birth or anything else). As others have said and as it’s her first she would be better to go down the home birth Hypnobirthing route. Then try freebirthing for a subsequent pregnancy once she has a better idea of how she and her body handled labour.

All 3 of mine should have been home births but DC1 didn’t want to come out just we did have to go to hospital just for the contractions to be ramped back up again, then it was a normal birth.

DC2 was normal home birth with midwife there.

DC3 was home birth with DH delivering the baby as he came out before midwife got there, so I suppose that was a freebirth 🤷‍♀️ Each time they I have had full confidence in DH being calm, collected and knowing what to do and when and when to call Midwife.

Your friend needs a very supportive birth partner.

It tells you everything that you need to know about the risk of even assisted home birth with a midwife that my friend who’s a midwife wouldn’t even consider it. Said she had seen too many terrible things that only life-saving equipment and professionals being on hand could solve (and even then, not always). Your friend is bonkers. But as others have said, her just stopping appointments will be a red flag for the midwife and she will be chased. I even wonder if this is something you should report if you know her authority/NHS area.

My grandmother died in childbirth. My uncle too.
Haemorrhage happens, and medical assistance saves lives.

She sounds clueless and bonkers. Leave her to it and hope somebody will talk some sense into her.

Yeah my first would probably be dead too tbh. Completely idiotic and dangerous of her in this day and age to take such a risk. I couldnt pretend to be supportive of her choice either, so no friendship it would be.

Hm, I’m inclined to say it’s just up to her and if if were me I’d just shrug and say you respect her plan (knowing that six months is a long time and it may change) but the weirdest bit of this I find is that she pressed you on your DS’s birth and said she found it scary (but she asked!) and then asks you to officially endorse her birth plan.
Why would one need a friend to wholeheartedly agree with your birth plan? It’s not really anything to do with them. It just puts you in a strange position, OP.

“ just be honest and say although you support her right to choose it doesn't mean you have to agree with her choice and surely as friends you can respect each other's differing opinions. I'd also add that one of the reasons you don't agree with her suggestion at this stage is that your DC wouldn't be here had you chosen that method of birth.”

This.

It does seem a bit extreme of her to cut you off because your birth viewpoints differ.

Don’t want to sound scaremongering around this, but disengaging with midwife appointments and refusing medical services, I believe, will become a safeguarding issue. Is this in the UK? The midwife has a obligation to safeguard this baby until the health visitor takes over post birth. It’s very likely midwife will have to contact children’s social services, who will assess mother’s capacity to safeguard the unborn baby if she is refusing to have any professionals present / ambulance outside at a home birth. If they feel she can’t make decisions in baby’s best interest, baby could end up on the child protection register for the duration of the pregnancy and beyond. The UK isn’t very progressive when it comes to these kind of choices (similar stories in the news about parents who refuse cancer treatment etc for their sick children and end up with their kids in care or facing prosecution).
You’re completely in the right to let her know you don’t agree with her choices due to your own traumatic experiences but she might change her mind when she is told about the repercussions of refusing any services after 20 weeks.

@whateveryouneed

I am not going to push it and to be fair, she asked for my opinion. I gave it, honestly. She text me when she got home telling me she cannot have contact with me or be my friend throughout her pregnancy unless I can get onboard and be positive about her having a freebirth. Sorry but I can't do that. It's not just her body. It's her babies body too and as much as I understand it's her decision, I can't be happy, smiley and positive about it.

I think you're going to just be the first of quite a few friends and relatives that she won't be speaking to.

People saying "I/my baby would be dead if I'd done this" can rarely conclude that for sure, as things may have gone differently if they hadn't been in hospital in the first place. Many birth complications are iatrogenic.

And you can't draw conclusions from historic data either, since women (both mothers and midwives) were often malnourished, living in poor conditions, and not educated on optimum physiological birth.

Even when something does go differently, there is room for some error in birth. E.g. my daughter's umbilical cord was so short it had to snap for her to be born, but she was pink and alert regardless, and there was no significant haemorrhaging. In a hospital, staff may have over-reacted to that situation and caused more of an issue than it actually was. Instead of what we actually got (which was what I wanted and was best for us) i.e. a peaceful labour and birth with no strangers in the house, and immediate skin-to-skin in our own bed.

I think she is unreasonable to expect you to be actively positive about it (if that's what she said) if you personally wouldn't be happy to do it, but you should respect her educated decision and not scaremonger. If you can't do that I think she's absolutely right not to surround herself with people trying to coerce her out of it.

Who do you think cares more about her baby; you, or her?

My second was a unintentional free birth

42 min labour. My first was 30h so I figured I had plenty of time.

Paramedics arrived when she was about ten mins old she was already on the boob. Placenta delivered perfectly at home & was taken with me to hospital. Still went to hospital to be checked out BY PROFESSIONALS. It was terrifying and she was my second! Had planned for a labour ward/MLU delivery depending on spaces.

My first delivery was fine but I had a retained placenta and PPH. Needed a spinal & D&C to remove placenta. Probably would've bled out had I been at home unassisted

My first baby:-

Perfect health throughout
Baby looked perfect in scans
Perfect weight gain
Perfect blood pressure
Perfect urine tests
Perfect blood tests
Happily cycled daily until 6 months and still walked miles every day up until I went into labour
Went into labour naturally
Turned up at the hospital at 7cms coping well with the pain

My midwife used to joke that she’d never met anyone who found pregnancy so easy.

10 minutes after giving birth I haemorrhaged.

Perhaps your friend doesn’t care if she or her baby live or die? Perhaps she doesn’t realise how lucky she is that she has a choice and doesn’t live in a third world country? It’s so incredibly selfish let’s hope her husband refuses to take on the responsibility.

When my mum was pregnant with me she had a low risk pregnancy, she was young and fit, I was two weeks late and she had sprained her ankle so she was in hospital for bed rest, in the late evening they discovered she had pre-eclampsia, before they had a chance to explain what was happening to her she was under anaesthetic and I was born by emergency c-section, had she been at home she and I would have been dead, no doubt about it.

Does her partner want to be responsible for 2 lives? I would never have put that on my dh. Childbirth is the most dangerous thing most women go through.