Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

@Wolfgirrl oh do be quiet

Well I don't even know if my daughter would have survived if I wasnt in the hospital, as she got stuck (shoulder dystocia). Would her husband even know when to call for help if things were not progressing, or would he assume that's just the way it is and is just slow?

This is on top of the fact my daughter was born suffering from meningitis, so was able to get antibiotics within 20 mins of birth. She lives 18 minutes away, so that's over half an hour to get to hospital, plus assessment time. So could be over an hour and in that time her baby would suffer for no reason.

I get home births. I do not get a home birth without a medical professional who is trained for years to spot issues.

Shes literally rolling the dice on her child's health.

Personally feel like it's attention seeking.
She wants a reaction.
Maybe she won't even end up doing it but I bet she's loving the attention it's getting.

Is it really mean to hope she's begging for an epidural 10 mins into contractions 🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️😂

"Can you imagine a man refusing anaesthetic or pain relief during a medical procedure to impress a woman" - that's the thing though - labour/birth is not/does not have to be a medical procedure. It is being highly medicalised nowadays and that has advantages but also some drawbacks.
I do think my DH is quite proud of the fact that all our children were born without substantial medical intervention and 2 of them at home. I don't think he boasts about it per say but I know he is pleased. Why? I don't know. Same as me I suppose, pleased that it went well and we didn't need any specific medical help. Not the same as being pleased that I was in pain but I think both of us were happy that I could do it without painkillers. Painkillers in labour are also a lot different to taking paracetamol for a headache. A lot of the painkillers used during labour have got risks and drawbacks for mum and baby. They may, in many cases, be outweighed by the benefits but there are risks nonetheless.

Free birthing is perfectly legal and can make sense if researched properly. I wouldn't fall out with a friend on her choice on this. It's up to her to research the risks properly and you can discuss that openly with her and she can make an informed decision. She has plenty of time to decide.

Fwiw I have had 2 home births (my first was planned as a home birth though I ended up in hospital but without any complication or any actual issue) but I wouldn't choose a free birth but that's my choice based on my research on the matter.
However when home births were not supported by the NHS during the initial stages of the pandemic (I'm due with my 4th any time now) I did seriously consider it vs being forced to go to hospital.

@passthemustard is that what your husband says to you?

It's almost like home birthing has become too popular these days so now women are trying to up the game! (I've heard so much smugness and competitiveness over not using any drugs etc, good for you 🤷🏼‍♀️)

Maybe next they will start creating and administering their own vaccines and other medical treatment for their children 🤦🏼‍♀️

@oblada 🙏

@Wolfgirrl no - he's dead

@Wolfgirrl ok stop the pile on now

pass the mustard

I think Wolfgirrl feels a thread is wasted if she hasn't been obnoxious to at least one fellow poster tbh

Induction of labour (often done unnecessarily) ie starting labour before baby is in an optimal position and causing a very long drawn out labour, artificially rupturing membranes, hours and hours of an oyxtocin infusion, leading to a greater likelihood of requiring an epidural, meaning the woman is exhausted and on her back - all major risk factors for all the complications that you describe

Why would healthcare professionals unnecessarily induce babies? Pretty sure there will be evidence-based criteria for doing so, or is it just for shits and giggles?

oblada Im being nosy here so feel free not to answer, but what is it about the idea of hospital births that would have you leaning towards free births if a home birth wasnt possible.

This is total curiosity on my part, so if you prefer not to discuss that's total fine.

It's almost like home birthing has become too popular these days so now women are trying to up the game! (I've heard so much smugness and competitiveness over not using any drugs etc, good for you 🤷🏼‍♀️)

Agreed! Imagine if we all startes doing the same around dental procedures... "you had anaesthetic for a root canal? Pah, I had 4 wisdom teeth out without anything"

@Iwalkinmyclothing not at all, but I thought the nature of discussion threads was to, you know, discuss?

@TJ17 I agree 100%.

@WhiteCliffsBeside

Induction of labour (often done unnecessarily) ie starting labour before baby is in an optimal position and causing a very long drawn out labour, artificially rupturing membranes, hours and hours of an oyxtocin infusion, leading to a greater likelihood of requiring an epidural, meaning the woman is exhausted and on her back - all major risk factors for all the complications that you describe

Why would healthcare professionals unnecessarily induce babies? Pretty sure there will be evidence-based criteria for doing so, or is it just for shits and giggles?

This depends a lot on where and when you are.

In some countries the doctors don't like working weekends so they induce women / schedule c sections to fit their schedules.

I’m pro home births in the right circs but what on earth is the rationale behind having no trained assistance when birthing?

@LaurieMarlow competitiveness. Sometimes under the guise of 'not liking hospitals' like that is a good reason to endanger a child's life.

The reference (in one of the tragic links upthread) to wanting a ‘badass story’ to tell is concerning.

Maybe I’m cynical but I wouldn’t take this seriously from a woman who has never previously given birth, and was only 3 months pregnant.

Reallife - I'm not sure if I would have gone for a free birth in the end. I may have gone for an independent midwife first. But I did consider it. My reasons? Well I have a bit of an issue with hospitals. Not full on trauma/phobia but I do tend to panic there. I had a few pretty negative experiences in hospital as a child which have stayed with me. I also know the chances of intervention during labour are far increased merely by being in hospital. With my first I ended up in hospital because I didn't feel comfortable labouring at home due to my mother in law being around so I can only imagine being in hospital wouldn't help me really. With my first I was only in hospital for 45mins before she arrived. No real concern or distress or anything but it was being suggested that forceps and episiotomy would have to be used if she wasn't born within the next few pushes (thankfully she was)... also from a practical point of view, we have 3 children and no family around so it would potentially mean me going to hospital on my own whilst my husband stayed with the children.

In some countries the doctors don't like working weekends so they induce women / schedule c sections to fit their schedules

Is that a thing in the UK though? And even in countries where that is a thing, can people not choose a different Dr?

It seems dangerous to start viewing medical staff as wanting to interfere with patients' bodies for their own amusement/at their own convenience.

@WhiteCliffsBeside

In some countries the doctors don't like working weekends so they induce women / schedule c sections to fit their schedules

Is that a thing in the UK though? And even in countries where that is a thing, can people not choose a different Dr?

It seems dangerous to start viewing medical staff as wanting to interfere with patients' bodies for their own amusement/at their own convenience.

It isn't so much of a thing here. I've heard of it more in South Africa which has a very high rate of planned c sections.

I've also heard of it in America too.

I have heard of it in the UK actually. One of the made in Chelsea crowd had her baby induced 2 days before her due date because that's what her mum had done. Didn't seem any medical reason for it

If something goes wrong, and you had supported her ridiculous decision, it’s likely she would blame you for encouraging her

All three of my births went to plan (though I had to put my foot down and tell the midwives that my baby was coming now with DD2 and I was not going home), the third of which was a home birth (beautiful and easy) and I STILL wouldn't support freebirth.

I hope your friend changes her mind. It's far too risky to give birth without someone there who knows what's happening and can call for medical backup should things go wrong.