Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

Support her with her choices but perhaps suggest she has a back-up plan in place. Better to have one and not need it x

@Nartl0ngNow

That really is a very uneducated thing to say.
Maternal and infant death has dropped dramatically even in the last 100 years due to better medical care. Many mothers and children did survive but many did not. Why even add the risk?!

I’m glad OP is her friend and not somebody blindly supporting her decision.

I have had three births in the US. One was a home birth attended by a midwife. My son was born in hospital as he was premature. My last child was born at a birthing center. Not once was I told I would need a c section. Insurance covered all three births. I had a copay of about $200 with each birth.

Free birth is not something I would consider as I believe in pre and post natal care.

I would never comment on any women’s birthing choice, too much of a slippery slope.

It's really not as straightforward as 'medical professionals know best'. Until very recently it was pretty hard for women to be allowed to labour/give birth in their preferred position for instance. Even with my first the midwives kept making me lie down on my back to "monitor" baby. It could have been done without me lying down on my back and this was causing me agonising pain. They did it because that's how they'd been trained. They were also pushing the gas and air consistently on me "to help" but it only made things worse. And interventions were suggested when really there was no real medical justification for them. Women are induced regularly when it is not necessary and induction can indeed lead to more medical interventions.
It is far from straightforward and should be researched. There are pros and cons in everything and ultimately free birth is recognised as something a woman has the right to choose.

OP you don't have to 'support' her choice but you can respect she has the right to make that choice and try and discuss it with her to help her ensure it is an informed choice.
I didn't ask anyone to support my choices in any of the births of my children apart from my husband,.

I have heard of it in the UK actually. One of the made in Chelsea crowd had her baby induced 2 days before her due date because that's what her mum had done. Didn't seem any medical reason for it

Was that the pregnant mum's choice though, or the Drs?

FWIW I don't think medical professionals always know best the world over, or have historically. But to reject all medical assistance (or even the option of such) seems a very extreme reaction to that. Is the risk of an unnecessary c-section worse than the risk of your baby's death?

I couldn't support a friend suggesting free birth either. My dsis toyed with the idea but had a hospital birth instead. Thank goodness she did as she had retained placenta and needed a transfusion. She freely admits she'd be dead if she had gone for a freebirth.
I'm very pro homebirth (I had a wonderful homebirth with dc2) but freebirth is so far beyond that.

• and he was totally smug with his mates about my doing it at home without pain relief

Hopefully you will get to be totally smug when he has root canal surgery without pain relief.

What is it with this competitive pain tolerance that only childbirth seems to attract.

It seems as sexist as hell.

100 years ago the biggest killer for women was childbirth. The only reason why this figure has improved is because of the development of medicine and the advent of the NHS. The risk is still high and evident when you remove those advancements. Births can go smoothly, however it can turn dangerous for both baby and mother in such a short space of time. So why take that risk? It's an incredibly naive decision to make which could potentially have dire consequences.

oblada thank you for responding and being so open

Her body her choice.

But this isn’t just about her, is it. It’s also about the baby. Supposing the baby gets into distress and needs to be delivered by c/section. Who’s to guarantee that won’t happen. What are they going to do when they’re 18 miles from the nearest hospital.

I'm another one who would of died if not in hospital when having my child. My pregnancy was healthy for both me and the baby until the birth.
She's sounds batshit.
Odds on she will be an anti-vaxing, dairy free, gluten free, sugar free, "intolerance" to everything kind of parent.

@WhiteCliffsBeside

I have heard of it in the UK actually. One of the made in Chelsea crowd had her baby induced 2 days before her due date because that's what her mum had done. Didn't seem any medical reason for it

Was that the pregnant mum's choice though, or the Drs?

Tbh I've no idea. It's a vague memory of watching the programme

I had an 11 lb baby totally unexpected, I had to have ventouse and to be honest it's a miracle they got him out with that. Needed help to get him going. I'm so grateful I was in a labour ward. I had really fancied the idea of a home birth, but my DH wasn't keen.

As it goes I was induced so let's hope your friend doesn't go into labour naturally ! I very much thought giving birth was easy and natural. It was easier second baby, but you just don't know what is going to happen, each birth is unique.

@RealLifeHotWaterBottle
"what is it about the idea of hospital births that would have you leaning towards free births if a home birth wasnt possible."

I know this question wasn't aimed at me but I do know of a woman who has been in this situation during lockdown. There are women who have been so traumatised by previous births in hospital that they absolutely do not want to go; it would be triggering for them and make them so stressed that it would probably increase the risks for the birth. These women feel safest having a home birth with the support of midwives (and possibly a doula as well). During lockdown when some maternity services just cancelled all home births, it put these women in a very difficult position. There was an increase in the number of women considering free births precisely because they couldn't get a home birth.

I would never ever contemplate a free birth but I am considering a home birth because I think I'll have more chance of being able to have my doula with me as well as DH. I am worried about not being able to have her with me in hospital (due to a traumatic previous birth).

Thank you NameChange30 That makes total sense. Whatever you choose I hope it all goes as well as possible

She's being dumb and precious and actually very selfish. Given your very traumatic experience, if she were a good friend, she wouldn't try to push this on you and try to get you on her side, would she? She seems very self absorbed and a bad friend actually.

It's like when my mum was seriously ill with aggressive breast cancer and a "friend" started telling me how poisonous chemo is and that people should not do chemo and go for homeopathic medicine instead. I quickly distanced myself from her. Selfish twat.

@RealLifeHotWaterBottle
Thank you

It's her body and her choice but you're not really her friend though are you. It's more important for you to be right then to come alongside her and talk through her choice explore how she's come to this conclusion.

As for any birth there are no guarantees and there's the cascade of interventions it's like a snowball effect once you start it often ends in assisted birth of some kind and don't get me started on the mortality rate if you happen to be a woman of colour you're 5 times more likely to die. MBBRACE Nov 2018 it could be worse now. So hospital isn't as safe as you may think.

As for freebirth it's mostly second time mothers who went to hospital the first time and were traumatised by the birth often sexual assault survivors who can't face the thought of being out of control and forced onto their backs. Or the assumptions around consent etc.

As for those calling her unhinged and mentally ill just remember at the turn of the century women who were raped and/or pregnant out of wedlock were forced into sanitariums. The last woman this happened to has recently died.

Heaven forefends a woman makes her own choices about her care if it doesn't fit with convention then she's mentally unhinged.

I say this as a licensed professional in this area.

WhereamI88 - how is the OP's friend trying to push anything on the OP? OP had a difficult birth experience. OP's friend is the pregnant one wanting a free birth. She's not saying the OP should have a free birth...

As a completely side point I think we need to massively develop birthing centres - near hospitals but not within the hospitals. There is no need, in most cases, for labour/birth to be IN a hospital, quite the opposite. But home births can be overwhelming for some women. Birthing centres would solve that in part I think. It would be a good thing to start "de-medicalising" labour and birth to some extent.

Heaven forefends a woman makes her own choices about her care

It’s not just about her though. She’s putting her baby in much greater, unnecessary danger.

I couldn’t support this either.

Think about it a different way would anyone support not putting a child in a car seat because they feel it’s better for them and their baby if they hold their baby in a sling in the car. No probably not because it would be taking an unnecessary risk with the babies life. This is no different. I hope your friend changes her mind and has a home birth with a midwife.

Andwoooshtheyweregone - it is very different actually. Your example is illegal and criminal. Free birth is recognised by the NHS/the law here as a choice a woman can make as part of choosing her care. Whilst it involves baby, it is primarily considered to be about the pregnant woman at this stage. People may not agree with it but it is certainly her right to choose that.

I had a very positive mindset for birth. Did hypnobirthing, no pain relief, hardly any tear (v. small for dc1 none for dc2), short ish labours, found contractions easy to deal with. Got to hospital when 9 or 10cm dialated. Babies in perfect positions... text book regular births.
HOWEVER i am always unable to deliver the placenta (delivering the placenta took longer than labour the second time) and i bled alot and lost over 1l of blood. It was only because there were 3 experienced midwives and 1 doctor that i manages to be ok. I probably would not have died but i would have been in a much worse condition if medical help was not readily available.
I dont remember this bit but my DH said the room went from semi dark hypnobirthing relaxing vibe to full bright lights, oxygen machines, drips and a doctor with her hand up my bits trying to stop the blood... while DH sat there holding our minutes old DC.
I dont even want to think how traumatic it would have been if we had been at home far from professional help.
Your friend can do what she wants at the end of the day but if one of my friends ever told me something like that i would try really hard to make them consider other options.