Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

Give it to her straight. If a midwife were not present at your birth, your son woukd have died. Is it worth any risk? How will she cope with the guilt of a dead baby in her arms ? Harsh but true

I know five families whose babies were born brain dead due to labour mismanagement. And she is walking INTO labour mismanagement.....the five families will never recover but at least none have to reproach themselves because they insisted on having a complete lack of expertise at the birth. I would also be happy to lose a friend who threatened me with walking away when I expressed my reasonable (and very caring) fears over what shewas doing. I would drop this girl like a hot coal. Obviously you can still be delighted for her when the baby comes, but she seems frankly manipulative...and self centred. The birth is her BABY's day. It's not all about her.

@passthemustard

and he was totally smug with his mates about my doing it at home without pain relief

Love a good boast by proxy!

I wonder if it is this attitude that leads to people like OP's mate feeling she has to impress everyone.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

I thought it was illegal to give birth without a midwife or doctor available

Not in the UK. It's illegal for anyone attending your birth who is not a registered HCP to offer medical or midwifery care, but it is categorically not illegal to give birth without the presence of HCPs.

Every day's a schoolday! I thought it was illegal. I don't have kids myself, so am not knowledgeable about it.

@Wolfgirrl smug maybe the wrong word. Proud maybe a better word. People are competitive, it's human nature. And judgemental.

However he definitely wouldn't have agreed to go ahead with a free birth.

@passthemustard competitive over how much pain someone you love can endure? Sounds horrific. I had no pain relief (not my choice, epidural failed to take) and my DP hated seeing me in so much pain. I thought that was how love worked. Maybe it is just us 🤷‍♀️

competitive over how much pain someone you love can endure? Sounds horrific

Totally agree. It sounds batshit.

@Wolfgirrl it's really not that bad. 🙄

it was my choice and he was proud that I managed to have the birth I wanted and it was lovely, when I was highly traumatised by my first birth in hospital, despite his misgivings about the whole thing to start with.

[quote whateveryouneed]@rosiejaune I disagree completely. Being in hospital does not usually cause you to have a PPH, your baby to need resuscitation, meconium to cause an issue, the babies arm to come out first etc. These are things that can and do happen regardless of where you give birth. There may be instances where being in hospital causes intervention to happen that wouldn't have at home or in a MLU, but many, many potentially fatal complications arise due to no fault of anyone's. [/quote]
Actually there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. Induction of labour (often done unnecessarily) ie starting labour before baby is in an optimal position and causing a very long drawn out labour, artificially rupturing membranes, hours and hours of an oyxtocin infusion, leading to a greater likelihood of requiring an epidural, meaning the woman is exhausted and on her back - all major risk factors for all the complications that you describe.

A lot of things that go wrong in labour go wrong BECAUSE of us health professionals, then when we are able to rectify the problem it seems like 'phew, me or dc would be dead if she wasn't here'.

Do not get me wrong, very occasionally I see genuine non-iatrogenic obstetric emergencies - PPH following a fast spontaneous labour, shoulder dystocia etc. However being in hospital absolutely increases your risk of complications, there is no doubt about it and vast amounts of evidence to support this.

That being said, homebirth with a first baby DOES increase risk for your baby (as per the birthplace study) so to have a first baby at home, with no HCP capable of immediately being able to resuscitate the baby, is pure madness and downright dangerous. If a woman told me this was her intention I would do my absolute best to tease out her reasons to see if we could overcome it, eg have the mw hover in the background. No AN care is also a massive red flag, if she has undetected hypertension, gestational diabestes or obstetric cholestasis for example she is greatly increasing her risk of baby not growing well and even stillbirth.

@passthemustard being pleased with you having the birth you wanted is great, boasting about you being in agonising pain not so much... I would be pretty peed off if DP didn't have that protective instinct to me, but each to their own I guess.

@Wolfgirrl who said anything about agonising pain 🙄

@LaurieMarlow not to mention misogynistic in my view. Can you imagine a man refusing anaesthetic or pain relief during a medical procedure to impress a woman? 🙄 DP runs for the painkiller box the moment he gets a headache lol

Birth doesn’t always equal agonising pain - mine didn’t. I do think a man boasting about how his partner gave birth is pretty weird though.

Oh sorry, little twinges.

🙄

Speaking from personal experience, I think your friend is being idiotic.

I went into labour naturally, head down (although back to back) On paper should have been relatively low risk and straight forward. It wasn't. It was an absolute shit show. If I had given birth without medical assistance my baby would have been brain damaged or dead. If I hadn't have had that medical intervention monitoring the heart rate I wouldn't have had a clue. The end of labour was subsequently rushed but it needed to be, I had PPH as a result. Give me that over a brain damaged or dead child any day. Your friend will be the one to suffer if her child is born with a preventable medical problem that will affect them for life.

@Spidey66

It is not illegal for a woman to give birth unattended by a midwife or healthcare professional. Women are not obliged to accept any medical or midwifery care or treatment during childbirth and cannot be compelled to accept care unless they lack mental capacity to make decision for themselves.

It is not appropriate for medical professionals to refer a woman to social services with concerns about the unborn baby, solely on the basis that she has declined medical support, as she is legally entitled to do.

That’s from the Royal College of Midwives on a clinical briefing sheet about women choosing free birth.

When a woman becomes pregnant the only legal requirement is that she registers the birth before the baby is 6 weeks old.

All midwife appointments, scans, consultants, going to hospital to give birth and everything else are an available service that women can choose to use or not use (or pick and mix certain aspects from). Obviously it’s not wise to go without any of this and we are very fortunate to have it available but it’s useful to know this when wondering about rights in childbirth.

Ultimately all that's in your control is to ignore it and let her distance you, or to reply saying you cannot agree with her decisions, care about her and would prefer she doesnt discuss this with you for the sake of your friendship.

For what its worth, she's being an idiot.

Im also really unclear on why you would be proud of labouring with no pain relief When my DP is in pain I want him to take painkillers, there's no glory in him muddling through in pain for the sake of it. Same applies here, I'm truly missing why its a source of pride.

[quote whateveryouneed]@Wingingthis she wants it to be just her and her husband. She wants him to deliver the baby on his own with no medical presence at all. She thinks that it will be obvious in labour if things are going wrong and will call for an ambulance if she needs to. It is so naive. If I had done the same my son would be brain damaged or dead.[/quote]
I agree, my labour was straightforward but the baby got the cord wrapped around her neck at the last minute. If something like that happened to your friend, with no backup , it would be too late to get help. I would never put my baby at risk like this, whatever is she thinking of ? My baby was blue when born, but with 2 midwives and a doctor, she was soon sorted out, thankfully!

@Wolfgirrl
I never said anything about boasting.

He was proud of me because I had the birth I wanted.

We had a lovely experience together and he was happy to talk to his friends about our good experience at a time when our peer group was having babies. He was advocating home births and our good experience. Not saying my wife is amazing cos she can give birth without pain relief. That's pretty standard even in hospital births.

I used the wrong word. Shoot me now.

passthemustard I get it now, sorry the way it read initially was as though he was pleased about the pain relief (or lack of) rather than the location.

So she would go to scans etc but then go it alone?

Just tell her you believe she should have trained midwife present wherher home or elsewhere and leave it at that.
Her choice.
She takes the risk.
You can tell her you don't agree with her choice and move on.

If she doesn't want to be friends so be it.

@passthemustard

Wrong word? Wrong sentence more like. Nothing about 'he was totally smug with his mates about my doing it at home without pain relief' is interchangeable with 'he was glad I had the experience I wanted.'

As for your husband advocating home birth as a man, who on earth does he think he is?! He sounds like a misogynist to me.

He should stay the hell away from women's choices, and stop glorifying his weird obsession with women being in unnecessary pain.

Does she know how many babies and mothers used to die during childbirth? Those numbers have only changed due to modern medicine. I think estimates are 1-5% for maternal mortality, not sure about infant.

I also couldn’t support this choice as it’s not just her own health that will be impacted but her child’s. It’s selfish and self centred - all the hippy stuff online makes it look lovely and amazing but childbirth is a dangerous process that humans are very badly evolved for. She might be fine, but is it really worth the risk if she’s not?

The lady who founded the freebirthing movement in Australia (Janet Fraser) had her 3rd baby die during labour alone. By the time the medical professionals got there it was too late. The coroner said that if a midwife or other medical professional had been present the baby would probably still be alive.

This is another tragic story (there are lots of them):
www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/she-wanted-freebirth-no-doctors-online-groups-convinced-her-it-n1140096

I agree with you Op. It is incredibly foolish. I was low risk and ended up having a very traumatic birth. If I hadn't have been in hospital both me and my baby would have died but what can you do? It's her decision. Hopefully as the time gets nearer she will change her mind.