Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

I don't think it's wise to try a freebirth either for the first child. That being said: in my country antenatal care and birth are mostly doctors' business. There is one single midwife that does home births and when she retires that's it. She does not assist first births.
During my first birth which would have been entirely complication free (under four hours) I was given an unwanted and unconsented episiotomy because my doctor had decided I had a massive baby. He was born in a hospital with Apgar 9-10-10 and 7lb1. It left me traumatised for over a year. I'd say I'm a scientific hippie. I have a PhD in Fracture Mechanics and a Math degree I read the literature I weighed the risks of various things happening and decided and communicated that I am against episiotomies.
The second pregnancy I decided to head this off by having a home birth. No availability. Then I went to the hospital beforehand to discuss the birth. I told them I wasn't having a continuous CTG but rather intermittent checks of heart rate (read the evidence on this, there is no good reason for CTGs) or a catheter in my veins unless it became necessary. I was told that these interventions are not optional.
So I decided to labour at home for as long as I felt comfortable. Anyway since my last birth was fast I thought I better be prepared for a precipitous birth that could happen anywhere (on a walk, in the car, at home).
I kept on going to the prenatal visits all the way to the end although I found them excessive (CTG and ultrasound twice a week from week 39).
It really stressed me out all this testing for a low risk pregnancy. So much so that my BP went up whenever I went into the doctor's office. So I started taking and recording my BP at home.
There is more stuff that happened that would really exceed a post on here.
In the end the baby was born in the tub at home within three and a half hours. The contractions were painful but never overwhelmed me or scared me and by the time I was in transition ("maybe I should head to the hospital now") I felt a shivering push reflex and the baby was born in the next 10 minutes. All fine. We cut the cord, the placenta came about an hour later. My scar had reopened so I was bleeding lightly but it was all very peaceful. We went to the hospital with the placenta two hours later to have us checked out and me stitched out. It was all totally undramatic.
This is also just an anecdote and not statistics.
But I do think we as women should take more responsibility.
We can monitor ourselves for pre eclampsia. We can make choices when we are given information.
We can cut the cord and deliver a placenta when it comes down to it.
I really hate the infantilisation of pregnant women on all scales.
So if your friend feels like she must go through with it tell her to carefully weigh the risks and read about it.
Tell her to take her healthcare into her own hand then.
Tell her to take a baby rescusitation course.
Tell her to feel her own dilation.
Maybe that makes it real enough for her to reconsider and you don't have to fall out either.
And you might even save a baby's life while being supportive without a guilty conscience.

On a side note. It doesn't have to be EITHER freebirth OR all the machines. Ideally all the machines are on backup while not disturbing the birth process- which is hormonally guided and susceptible to be disrupted by stressors. Which again are different for different women

I thought it was illegal to give birth without a midwife or doctor available

Not in the UK. It's illegal for anyone attending your birth who is not a registered HCP to offer medical or midwifery care, but it is categorically not illegal to give birth without the presence of HCPs.

I'm horrified by the sheer stupidity of your friend, both at stopping medical checks at 20 weeks and free birthing.

I know of 3 women who in recent years have lost their babies during labour despite having medical care. I had reduced movements in one of my pregnancies & medical help ensured the baby was ok. My first labour resulted in an emergency section as my baby was in severe distress

Her husband with no medical knowledge will be useless if anything goes wrong

So, so risky. My baby was born with a pneumothorax. A big strong 9lbs4 baby but they had to work on him for 45 min to get him to breathe. And meanwhile I complained about being a bit warm and was convinced he was just fine. Turns out I had sepsis and my poor husband was scared for us both. If we hadn't been in hospital we both might have died. As it was my baby is 10 months old now and wonderful. Took a while for my husband to bond with him after the traumatic start. We've got an older girl and had a traumatic miscarriage inbetween. I wouldn't consider a home birth personally but can understand why some people do. But a free birth? That is just reckless and it will be her poor husband who will be left with the consequences if it all goes wrong. He should not be advocating for this.

I haven’t RTFT but I fully agree with you OP. No medical assistance is just asking for trouble. My son was born early at 34 weeks (dates were wrong so it was actually more like 32)

I had my scan at 20 weeks everything looked fine and I was looking forward to the 32 week scan and then him arriving. The 32 week scan is when it all went wrong, he looked small but was still moving and his heartbeat was still there so no one had any idea he was in distress. The 34 week scan he hadn’t grown at all.. I just knew in my gut that he was in distress. They admitted me for daily monitoring and then agreed to deliver him 4 days later.

If I had stopped all medical assistance at 20 weeks I wouldn’t have been any of the wiser of him not growing and being in distress and my son may not have been with me now.

I once met someone who decided to not involve anyone medical at all during her pregnancy and labour. She was going to do it all herself. She went into labour several weeks early, and had the sense to go to hospital. The baby was born, but the midwives didn't seem happy, and checked her over only to find that there was another baby. They were shocked that this woman had had no scans at all and didn't know that she was carrying twins.

A PP said upthread she probably wants to boast about how natural and superior she is and having spent some time on the fringes of these groups (local bf support group lead me to them) I'd have to agree. There was a lot of, often unspoken, competition about who could have the most natural birth. Medical professionals were seen as desperate to escalate through all possible interventions as soon as you stepped into the hospital, just for shits and giggles. I knew a lot of them around the time they were having 2nd babies and a couple had freebirths, others had home births with very little midwife involvement (and much complaint about having them be there at all). To be fair there were no dire consequences but sone transferred to hospital which was considered awful, and of course they had to discharge themselves away from the plebs ASAP. Some may have had serious trauma based reasons for choosing this, but most of the talk was anti-medical with a superiority about those who didn't know better than to trust their own bodies. Almost all were middle class and well off. Formula feeding was considered child abuse and most were also anti vax and anti school.

I thought it was illegal to give birth without a midwife or doctor available

How could that possibly be true? You know some women have unexpected homebirths, right, and don't get clapped in a prison cell?

Your friend is probably looking for the best birth story to share with her like minded friends who will fawn over how stunning and awesome she is.

Would she be refusing an ambulance if anything went wrong? Or is she expecting the blue lights if and when she ends up in a situation that could have been prevented by proper medical and healthcare?

The fact she's planning to go silent with medical and health staff from 20 weeks means she must know that there's a reason free birthing isn't considered a safe option.

I've had 3 home births. They were all wonderful. I cannot understand why anyone would want to do it without a trained professional. The steaks are too high.

And what does her husband say about this? Is he completely mental too?

My husband was totally freaked out by my refusal to go to hospital and actually said I was making him miss out on a normal birth experience by having a home birth (first home birth) I think he would have had me committed if I had suggested doing it without a midwife!!

(He loved the home birth by the way and completely supported our next two home births, and he was totally smug with his mates about my doing it at home without pain relief) 🙄

I had a very traumatic hospital birth with my first baby and decided there and then if I did it again I was not going to hospital. (Pre meeting my husband)

The more I read the more I think how stupid. Nobody in their right mind would consider it.

I don't think I know anyone who's given birth and not needed at the very least stitches to repair a tear.

Yes to the lady to mentioned MWs having experience that can't be measured. A MW heard from a distance a change in my breathing and altered other MWs I was pushing! MWs flew in the door and caught Baby who was delivered in one go, none of the heads out

I thought it was illegal to plan to have a birth without medical assistance.

I couldn’t support that either. It feels like most women I know who have had babies after straightforward pregnancies have needed emergency care in some way during the birth with a high number resulting in sections. Childbirth used to be such a major issue for female and infant mortality - it’s dangerous whatever label you want to slap on it.

Sorry hit post too soon.

Heads out then the rest of baby. All very quick. But the birth was fine then I had PPH.

I really wouldn't fancy being on my own dealing with that.

Does she have form for this sort of thing? The 'text from home' element makes me wonder if her husband is putting pressure on her. It's a sure fire way to isolate someone from their family & friends.

I think I'd reply: 'sorry you feel that way, but I'm really concerned for your safety & safety of the baby. Birth is dangerous & there are lots of unknowns. I wish you all the best & if you need me at any time I'm here.' Leave the door open for her.

Both me and my DC1 would have died if I hadn’t of had medical assistance and DC2 would have died if I didn’t have medical assistance. Free birth probably can work out for SOME people but why would you ever take that risk with your babies life? I don’t think I would want to continue a friendship with her over this, not the other way round.

It’s her choice. But chances are once labour pains start she will b in her way to hoisptal anyway.....despite her ‘plans’

I thought it was illegal to give birth without a midwife or doctor available

How could that possibly be true? You know some women have unexpected homebirths, right, and don't get clapped in a prison cell?

I think it’s fairly obvious that they meant a planned home birth without medical intervention...

What she’s doing is exceptionally selfish and dangerous. While I appreciate that it is her body and therefore legally she is allowed to give birth alone, I don’t think I could continue a friendship with someone who was planning on doing this.

If I were you I'd text her back saying this:

^Dear Freebirther, I understand you only want people around who are fully positive about your choice. I love you so this hurts, but I understand. I want you to know I'm always here for you though. And I'm looking forward to meeting your beautiful baby when they arrive. Love, Whatever"

Because a) she might change her mind or b) she'll be forced into a different birth experience due to circumstances and assuming you don't want to end the friendship over her stupidity in this, letting her know that you're still her friend and are there for her, will keep the pathway open.

She seem totally naive and immature. At the end if the day though, it's her body, and this is one of those times where it's really irritating.

I'm wondering though if she's like this now, how she's going to be when baby arrives...I'm expecting you might not be told the sex of the baby and it gets a gender non specific name..etc.

If I were you I'd text her back saying this:

^Dear Freebirther, I understand you only want people around who are fully positive about your choice. I love you so this hurts, but I understand. I want you to know I'm always here for you though. And I'm looking forward to meeting your beautiful baby when they arrive. Love, Whatever"

Because a) she might change her mind or b) she'll be forced into a different birth experience due to circumstances and assuming you don't want to end the friendship over her stupidity in this, letting her know that you're still her friend and are there for her, will keep the pathway open.

She seem totally naive and immature. At the end if the day though, it's her body, and this is one of those times where it's really irritating.

I'm wondering though if she's like this now, how she's going to be when baby arrives...I'm expecting you might not be told the sex of the baby and it gets a gender non specific name..etc.

OP she asked your opinion, you gave it. My daughter would be dead. She was got out unresponsive, super low heart beat and resuscitated then intensive care. Super duper pregnancy, head down, small size. And look. I would tell her if she cant take peoples opinions she shouldn't ask for them. Bearing in mind your birth history she is being super selfish. There is nothing you can do, so just tell her, you totally disagree but it is her choice. Why women put themselves in these situations is beyond me.

Utterly selfish to put your desire for a certain birth experience above the health of your baby

Whoever posted this way up thread, I agree with wholeheartedly. I would normally try and keep the peace on most things but this and vaccinations I would not be able to hold my tongue.

Actually on reflection op I don’t think I could be friends with someone who is so stupid and irresponsible.

@GimmeAy sorry to derail the thread, abruption here too (they think, because they acted so fast they can’t be 100% sure). Hoping to have a second, and it will definitely be an ELCS.

I couldn't be friends with someone who's veiws are so wildly apposed to mine.
Hopefully she will see sense. I couldn't support her choice.

Good luck OP in whatever you do.