Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

Also if she lays down ultimatums like that (you can’t be my friend) - she’s not your friend anyway.

I worked as an Emergency Medical Dispatcher. An ambulance request from a medical professional would be classified lower than one from a member of the public, the reason being there is already a medical professional on scene. Important information for people who think 'If anything goes wrong they'll just call 999'. Plus of course that's if there's a vehicle available, plus travel time. Far safer to have a doctor down the hall than in the next county.

Tell her 2200 women die every day giving birth.

'I love you and can't wait to welcome your little one into the world. You asked me honestly about my experiences, these were very traumatic, sadly complications at birth and losses are really common - although survival of mums and infants has been improved with birth care. It's more than likely that you won't face the same difficulties. I hope you don't . But I do suggest you plan for the best but prepare for the worst by learning about the experiences benefits and risks from homebirthers, midwife, medics, mum's like me. I'm always here for you but I will always speak my own mind about issues that I think pose a risk to you, because you mean a lot - you don't have to agree with me though.'

My friend sadly lost her baby boy who was undiagnosed breech.

Also, she will probably phone an ambulance at the first contraction and her poor partner imagine how traumatic that experience could be. DH was traumatised by cleaning the (excessively bloody) home birthing pool after dd2 and by being asked to dress newborn dd1 the first time with no help. (I bleed a lot so am useless or getting blood transfusions after birth). Her partner needs to speak to some new dads and get real about this plan

Same for me, textbook pregnancy, I had a home birth with a midwife present, then it all ended up going on too long,there were complications & we ended up in an ambulance driving through a storm, forceps delivery & many stitches & baby ended up in intensive care for a few days, as he couldn't feed.
I wonder if you could show her this thread OP the testimony of so many women on here with real-life experience here.

Goodness no way would I recommend this. My sister was super calm, well prepared she had a very rare knot in the cord and ended up with a very traumatic birth and injuries.

My mum had 2 smooth births then my brother had his shoulder stuck and almost died.

Why would you take risks like this? And what a responsibility for the dad!!!

Straight forward pregnancy went in to labour on due date then shoulder dystocia, obstetric emergency room full of people, I prefer not to think about how that would of panned out in my bathtub with OH. The free birth thing is getting a lot of press on social media and is growing in America. I personally can’t believe that someone would put their need for ‘the experience’ over the outcome of a safe delivery which is essentially how I feel some people see it. It’s taken medicine and science 100s of years to develop safe methods and individual ‘experts’ of YouTube a video to make it look like a spa day down by the local lake

Hypnobirthing is about helping women to feel calm and confident before and during labour, however they give birth - it's absolutely not about refusing medical assistance!

This is not reflective of my experience. My hypnobirthing classes (through a big company, not just some random independent instructor) referred heavily to the "cascade of interventions". This was in the printed literature, so again not the instructor going off piste. The idea that if you "succumb" to one intervention, the chance of needing more and more until you finally need a CS/forceps or whatever was VERY much a feature of all the sessions. The confidence that I placed (wrongly) in that woman and in the lessons led me to refuse an induction when my baby was very overdue because my body would "just know" when the time was right and inductions lead to further interventions and a worse outcome etc etc. I am an intelligent woman and I did all the research. And yet I clung onto the ideology that was spouted at me, simply through pure fear. A lot of the classes centred around being able to advocate for yourself which, whilst obviously important, was hammered home to the degree that midwives were almost framed as the enemy and people to be distrustful of. I don't believe that is a healthy mindset or conducive to a positive birth experience. I would never recommend hypnobirthing based on my own experience.

She needs to speak to her midwife about wanting her husband to be the one to deliver the baby, there's no reason why a midwife cannot facilitate that at home supervising him if its straightforward (they would step in if there's complications)

Though I am one of the lucky ones, my 2nd was born without any interference really h received her as she was born midwife didn't touch her. But had 2 midwives, a student and a nurse there (America)

I'd leave her to it.

She sounds the sort that is adamant that big Pharma are behind any medicalisation of birth and it's all a big conspiracy to control the masses, probably led by Bill Gates.

Is she an anti vaxxer as well?

I've read through the Op's posts & can't see this-but what does her husband think?

I know that my husband wouldn't have agreed to it.

He wouldn't have wanted to deliver a baby, clamp the cord & deliver the placenta.

The baby isn't 'caught', they don't actually fire out of you like a canon, it manoeuvres slowly and gently and needs to be held.

In the interests of total accuracy, DS2 was reported by two witnesses to have shot out of me like a cannonball however he was my second baby! DS1 inched his way out very very very very slowly (giving me a lovely 3rd degree tear in the process). I think first births do tend to go slower and babies do need a bit of help/coaxing out; subsequent ones tend to be faster.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

You only have to read a few Victorian novels - it was so easy then for an author to kill someone off - and probably the baby too - by having them oh so conveniently die in childbirth. No reader in those days would have thought, ‘Well, that’d be highly unlikely, wouldn’t it?’ - and tossed the book aside in disgust.

Right at the start of Northanger Abbey Jane Austen describes how her heroine was the 4th child and says about Her mother;

"Instead of dying when bringing the latter into the world, as anyone might expect, she lived on, lived to have 6 children more and to enjoy very good health herself"

This pretty much says it all really.

I completely understand OP.
My baby and I would have died/had lasting disability if I had taken your friends approach. If a close friend of mine then suggested freebirthing to me so soon after my experience, I would find it painful and bloody ludicrous.
I could not support it and I would take a step back from them for the rest of the pregnancy (and see if there is still a friendship there afterwards).

@MitziK

She sent the message cutting you off after she'd gone home.

She sent it after speaking to her husband. Probably about the emergency treatment your DC needed.

I had an ex like that. His mother was a Sheila Kitzinger fan. I finally got seen by myself at 41+6 (as he insisted upon attending all the appointments, whilst he went to the toilet, I shot up and said I needed to be seen NOW - they already knew there were issues, so got me into an office straight away) when I knew he was pushing for a drive out into a forest in November/December and they found a bed for me there and then. One planned section later, they unravelled the cord from where it was wrapped around DD's neck three times, which was why she was in an undiagnosed breech (it had stopped her head from moving away from my spine) and we were both alive.

He still fucking sulked about it because I'd deprived him of his birth experience and wasn't a true mother as I hadn't given birth.

She might be under a lot of coercion here.

I was having a scroll through to see if anyone else had had this thought.

Being pregnant for the first time is terrifying. Most women are scared/apprehensive/whatever about giving birth as it's the extreme unknown. Even if it wasn't, if I suggested a freebirth to my husband, he would never, ever in a million years, go ahead with it.

The cutting you off until after the birth is what struck me as strange.

Is this definitely her decision?

I had a lovely labour, i felt powerful and confident and i enjoyed it. i remember thinking, when i was about 8cm dilated, ‘i could totally have done this at home, this is amazing.’ Everything was perfect.
Until it wasn’t, my son got stuck in my pelvis, during pushing, slipped too far back up for forceps, his heart rate plummeted, and i had to be rushed into theatre for a category 1 emergency csection. I’m not exaggerating when i say my labour went from ‘textbook’ to ‘serious risk to baby’ in under 5 minutes.

Your friend is an idiot. I had the most positive, relaxed, ‘this is all natural and fine’ attitude imaginable and it makes not a blind but of difference in a medical emergency. Magical thinking is so prevalent in the birth ‘industry’ and it’s terrifying.

@Nartl0ongnow oh silly us who would have lost our baby or our own life because something went wrong... If only we'd known we needed to be more positive!! That would have fixed it! #gianteyeroll

Its one thing owning up front that you put your selfish desire for your ideal child birthing scenario ahead of your child's life, quite another to make out fairy dust can prevent any problems arising if you just have POSITIVITY! idiot!

I was a low risk pregnancy but wanted to be in a hospital just in case. Also being a defense wife and dh being away I would need some help!!! Glad I went even if he was home , as I had a retained placenta!!!

My concern would also be that after the birth they wouldn’t engage in services. Will they tell the midwife after the baby is born so they can check mum and baby are ok? Will they be letting them in the house afterwards? What about all the newborn screening? Or is it just birth they are disengaging from? Because that’s a safeguarding concern.

I have two friends who have very quick labours and have to have homebirths, in fact the paramedics have never got there in time! But they’ve always asked for assistance as soon as it starts so at least someone arrives, even if it’s after the baby is born.

I had HG until 16 weeks but after that a perfectly fine pregnancy. I ended up having an EMCS, with general anaesthetic as there was no time for a spinal block.

Your friend is exceptionally foolish but it is up to her. Not sure why she requires you to not only accept, but support her decision.

Is there no decent homebirth team?

it is one thing if a birth happens suddenly and someone unqualified has to step in to help with the birth but quite another if they deliberately dont get medical help on purpose. due to the geography of where she lives if anything goes wrong either with her or baby an ambulance has to be dispatched from an ambulance station probably a big town or city so could take a while same with midwife i think she is playing a dangerous game

I'm afraid I've only read OP's posts and a few others but have you considered reporting your concerns to social services? They can share the information with her GP and midwife and if there is anything legally that can be done they will - or they will flag it on record to address it with her.

I had my 5th baby last week. I had textbook easy deliveries with my first 4. No 4 was a low intervention homebirth with no pain relief.

I had no 5 in hospital, as my area is not currently allowing homebirth. Thank god. It was the worst experience. Baby stuck, progression slow. I needed my waters broken. So so so painful (all in my back). I'm normally a silent labourer but this time was screaming b and very frightened. My husband thought I was minutes from being whisked off for a c section. Even delivering the placenta was horrific. Baby was fine but I am eternally grateful to the midwife who helped me.

Your friend is naive and putting both her and her baby at risk.