Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

[whateveryouneed]

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

People actually do this?!

Fucking hell. Never mind her sending you that snotty text, I honestly couldn’t be friends with someone who put their own preferences above the safety of themselves and a totally different human being who was relying on them to make the right decision.

The total arrogance astounds me. There’s women in parts of the world who walk for days to get medical treatment for their dc, who give birth in unsanitary conditions with no safety net for when things go wrong. How insulting to those mothers to think that the outcome of a baby’s birth is all about positive thinking and a fucking panpipes cd.

I’ll not get into the twattishness of the DH who thinks that the years of training and experience that a MW goes through to enable her to competently attend a birth can be replicated with a couple of YouTube videos.

Home birth and free birth are completely different so not sure why the two are being conflated in some of the replies?

Free birth is proven to be more dangerous. However home birth in certain situations can be equally safe to choosing hospital.

I think it's a really bad idea for her to freebirth as well, but it's really not your decision and I'm surprised that you seem to be acting like it is. You've told her what you think and that's enough. Telling her that she "needs to rethink her decision" is patronising and controlling. You are incorrect. She doesn't NEED to do anything that you tell her to do, she is an adult who can make her own decisions.

Just think about how you word things when you speak to her about this. It is possible to be supportive without agreeing with her choices. Go for that route.

Interestingly this is from a clinical briefing sheet by royal college of midwives about women choosing free birth during the pandemic:

*It is not illegal for a woman to give birth unattended by a midwife or healthcare professional. Women are not obliged to accept any medical or midwifery care or treatment during childbirth and cannot be compelled to accept care unless they lack mental capacity to make decision for themselves.

It is not appropriate for medical professionals to refer a woman to social services with concerns about the unborn baby, solely on the basis that she has declined medical support, as she is legally entitled to do.*

I’m not surprised you can’t stand by idly and support

I went in threatened pre-term labour with dd at 28 weeks and spent a week in Leeds! Miles away from home. She was eventually born at 38 weeks but without medical help, she could have been a preemie.

Then with ds, everything was going nicely until 35 weeks when they discovered he suddenly stopped growing. Something that wouldn’t have been picked up without midwife intervention.

I had to go to hospital everyday for 2 weeks to check on him before having a sweep at 37 weeks to try and induce labour. He was born 2 days later

I'm sorry you had such a traumatic birth and it will always influence your decisions but your friend has the right to birth the way she chooses

Don't forget there is a baby involved too: if something goes wrong and that baby has to live their whole life severely disabled they may well hold their parents responsible. How good will "I had the right to birth the way I wanted" sound when spoken to a teenager who knows she will never be able to walk?

No, YANBU to be worried about your friend. It is dangerous, especially for a first timer. She has no idea what to expect and she can’t be sure that she won’t need assistance of some sort at some point. I had the easiest pregnancy ever but it ended in everything going wrong and my son needing to be rushed to intensive care. If I hadn’t had a roomful of doctors with all their equipment waiting for him to come out (seriously, there were about 15 of them!) I am certain he would not be here today.

I don’t know if you should try to dissuade her though. Maybe just tell her that you are worried about her because she’s your friend, but don’t try to change her mind. It’s her decision.

I think you are right OP to stick to your guns. Hopefully as her pregnancy progresses and she educates herself more and probably receives similar opinions to yours, she may rethink. I do wonder what her dh thinks about all this? That's quite a lot of pressure on him.

I have a few friends who home birthed but ended up being rushed to hospital in an ambulance. And one who gave birth in the ambulance. All OK in the end. Plus friends who home birthed without problems (in the interest of balance!).

However, I do know someone who had a water birth in a hospital and lost the baby. This was when they were first available and at that time I think they did not monitor the baby during labour. Her baby must have got into distress but they weren't aware of it. Things do go wrong. How would your friend or her dh know if anything were to go amiss?

Both mine had to be intubated and it is very scary. Glad your ds is doing well now.

Your friend is a freaking idiot and I would be smacking her upside the head.

She definitely needs to rethink her decision because she's acting like a child.

OP, my second baby was like yours...NO problems expected, perfect pregnancy but she was blue and floppy and needed immediate resuscitation so it was touch and go for a while and very scarey as I watched as they moved her to the resus table. She was 9lb 12ozs but my first was 9lb 3ozs with both pregnancies perfectly normal in every way and DD didn't have any health or developmental problems going forward.

Like you, 'if' I had a home birth, or heaven forbid, in a remote area like your friend, then our story could have had an entirely different ending too.

In your situation I would count my lucky stars that your friend doesn't want you present at the birth, because if things go wrong and the bub doesn't survive then those present would be under a whole 'lot' of scrutiny by the coroner. I hope she doesn't live to regret her decision and that all goes smoothly, but imho, it's too risky to contemplate.

I think it's a really bad idea for her to freebirth as well, but it's really not your decision and I'm surprised that you seem to be acting like it is. You've told her what you think and that's enough. Telling her that she "needs to rethink her decision" is patronising and controlling. You are incorrect. She doesn't NEED to do anything that you tell her to do, she is an adult who can make her own decisions.

Just think about how you word things when you speak to her about this. It is possible to be supportive without agreeing with her choices. Go for that route

Acting like what exactly? If she wants to come out of this alive, and wants her baby to come out of this alive, then she really does NEED to rethink. It's that simple.

Well I had a perfectly normal pregnancy and then during normal labour my placenta abrupted. My consultant told me that the difference between life and death for a baby can be as little as 10 minutes. She’s an idiot. Surely you can’t be friends with her anyway now? I don’t understand why anybody would risk this. At least have a midwife present. That’s not medical intervention. Midwives have been assisting women throughout history. It’s the most natural thing!

DD had IUGR, I had placental insufficiency. If I had taken your friends approach refusing scans/medical assistance after 20 weeks, she would almost certainly have been stillborn.

There’s a good chance she’ll turn into a negligent parent once her baby is born. I would honestly just agree to take a break for the find being. If it’s just pregnancy hormones she’ll come around. If she genuinely has so little regard for her child you wouldn’t want to be friends with her anyway surely?

I had a similar experience to you in that I had a very traumatic birth experience and nearly lost DD. Your friend is utterly selfish telling you this and expecting you to do what, gush with excitement about how brave she is and oh how rebellious and modern. She's an absolute idiot and I think you need to flip this on its head. She wants to sell herself the idea that life is now all about her and the freebirth that she wants and if you offer the benefit of your experience or your view point in a conservation then your a horrible negative nelly who isnt supporting her. She is creating a narrative where this gives her strength against those critics. Actually, if she was a real friend to you she would see that this could potentially be very stressful and triggering for you and how disrespectful it is to tell you this and expect you not to utter a word. She is no friend to you and an absolute idiot .

Some people may describe me as a hippy.
I went all in for the positivity of birth and took all the hypnobirthing courses

No matter my extreme relaxed mindset and positive state when I was 7 days overdue and waters had just broken couldn’t stop me from ending up in hospital with an emergency c section

It could not have been predicted . I was low risk.

I am very glad I didn’t risk a free birth despite the beautiful videos of women doing it in streams and lakes just surrounded by nature

If I’d done that my son and I would be dead and my husband would have witnessed something awful

I'm a neonatal nurse, I wouldn't even consider a home birth let alone free birth, and I know most of my colleagues feel the same.
We see too much of what can go wrong.
And I know it's not illegal but I'm pretty sure there would be concerns raised if she suddenly stopped going to midwifery appointments after 20 weeks.
Shes deluded and I dont blame you atall for not supporting her. I'm sorry what you went through

She’s only 3 months, so hopefully common sense will kick in at some point...

I think you and your friend are both being too demanding of each other. This is her birth and her decision, but it's understandable that you have strong opinions and feel it is the wrong decision.

You don't seem to respect her decisions. That will hurt and anger her, whether you are right or wrong. At the same time, she expects you to pretend to agree with her decision, and that is not reasonable of her either. She doesn't get to dictate what you believe.

I think you should apologise and explain that your own birth experience has undoubtedly made this an even more sensitive subject than it otherwise would be. Tell her that you cannot actively support her decision, but you are fond of her and want to continue your friendship with her. Ask her whether she'd agree to the two of you not discussing her birth plans.

The thing is, you've already made your views known. You've been very clear. She will have taken that onboard, together with the opinions of all the other people who are undoubtedly telling her this is a bad idea. Repeating yourself throughout the next six months won't make any difference and will only drive her away. If she later changes her mind and decides to have a midwife present - which she may well do - she won't be grateful to you for setting her straight. She'll just resent the fact that you knew better than she did.

My fiancé is an experienced paramedic who has delivered his fair share of babies and even with his experience there's no way I'd let him deliver a child of ours alone. It's a ridiculous idea. Here's why I think so:

• Your friend's 'late scan to determine head down' thing is bollocks. I had to have a scan when my baby was 3 hours away from being born (16 hour textbook labour) as they had last minute concerns he could've been breech (zero concerns about this at all beforehand). That's how last minute babies can turn / things can change.

• as many, many posters have pointed out, anything could go wrong.

• as many other posters have pointed out there's loads of other stuff to do such as getting the placenta out safely.

• after I had my ds I needed stitches. What would your friend do about this? It's incredibly common.

Your friend is being very ignorant, naive and selfish and her whole 'you can't be my friend anymore' attitude only confirms how childish she is.

I hope she changes her mind! Yanbu for thinking as you do.

It’s so selfish of her to say that to you!

I’d have to reply (Mostly copied from a pp)

*I really can’t believe you can ask this of me. I hope that you understand why, due to my own experiences of childbirth, I would find it traumatic to be involved in this decision and cannot support others in it as my child would not have survived if I were to make this choice. I couldn’t live with myself if the worst happened to you or your beautiful baby and I had said nothing.’

People can become very evangelical about how they do labour, so I don’t suppose it’ll be any earthly use asking what’s more important to her - doing it her own way - or a live, healthy baby at the end of it.

I dare say it’ll be very hard to keep quiet about the risks, but if the friendship is important to you, it looks as if you’ll have to - and hope to goodness that you don’t ever even have to think, ‘Told you so!’

In that case, I'm not really sure why you started this thread?

You say she has to change her decision or you won't support her. She says she wont change her decision and doesn't want to be friends with you if you won't support her.

Sounds like it's all done and dusted and there isn't anything that anyone on this thread can say to change your perspective.