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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Freebirth. Fallen out with my friend. *title edited by MNHQ*

763 replies

whateveryouneed · 06/07/2020 21:23

Friend is 3 months pregnant. We've been friends for around 5 years. Saw her today for the first time in 8 or so weeks. She was asking me about my pregnancy and son's birth. I was honest with her and told her how it went (she already knew a fair bit but not finer details). She said it scared her a bit hearing about my son being born blue and floppy, completely flatlined. He had to be intubated and resuscitated (he's 100% fine and healthy now).

The reason it scared her is because she's planning a freebirth. She wants to give birth in her bathtub at home (rural, about 18 miles from the nearest town, further from nearest hospital). She wants no medical assistance. Just her and her husband.

I told her (fairly firmly) that I think she needs to rethink that idea and that it could be really dangerous. She thinks that because she's not high risk (at the moment), that the chances of something going wrong are minimal. She thinks that if baby is head down that she will be fine.

AIBU to be really scared for her if she goes through with this? She's just told me she can't be friends with me throughout her pregnancy if I can't support her choice.

Not sure what to say or think...

OP posts:
IWantT0BreakFree · 06/07/2020 23:44

She text me when she got home telling me she cannot have contact with me or be my friend throughout her pregnancy unless I can get onboard and be positive about her having a freebirth

I would reply "My child would not have survived had I chosen to freebirth 18+ miles away from hospital. For this reason, I cannot pretend that I believe what you are proposing is safe for either you or your baby. Given my traumatic history, I am shocked and hurt that you would demand this of me. Perhaps when you have your baby and understand what it actually is to love your child, you will have an inkling of what it might be like to live with the memory of almost losing them. I support your right to make your own choice. That doesn't mean I have to agree with your choices, and I really think you should consider how insensitive you are being in asking that of a friend who had the childbirth experience that I did."

I took a hypno-birthing course prior to having my first baby. I was scared and anxious and I thought it would help. I really enjoyed the course and I dedicated myself to listening to the tapes, practising the breathing and relaxation exercises etc. Unfortunately my body had other plans and my labour did not go smoothly. At all. For a long time afterwards I struggled with PND and heaps of guilt that I could have prevented it all if I'd just been more positive/breathed more deeply/managed to remember more of the affirmations. If you tell women that they are completely in control and their body will just "know" what to do, then you are also by definition telling them that when it goes wrong they are responsible for that too. It can be soul destroying.

GimmeAy · 06/07/2020 23:46

Btw - I know that cleaning things is a 'thing' which I definitely got while pregnant. But I moved a very heavy sofa the day before I had the abruption which I blame for rupturing something. I had to move it to clean under it properly you see. It was really important.

You'll find me very rarely on pregnancy threads telling women not to exert themselves late in pregnancy.

It's too much to risk. It's just too much to risk and I hope all goes brilliantly for your friend OP, but I think that she's being foolish.

Packingsoapandwater · 06/07/2020 23:48

This one is tricky, because I can kinda empathise with your friend's position. I was very attracted to the idea of freebirth when I was pregnant with my first, because I am someone who tends to be very self-reliant in life and whose experience has taught her that depending on other people is often disastrous. Indeed, that mindset gave me an acute fear of flying for nearly a decade. I had fairly significant issues with trust and unfamiliar individuals, however much I knew they were skilled and experienced in a discipline.

Of course, my pregnancy soon challenged all those fears I had, and made me realise that, sometimes, it is impossible not to depend on an unknown and unfamiliar third party.

But one thing you never read in these threads about childbirth and choice is that it is common to be in a position during labour where the experience, in the moment, renders you, as the birthing mother, unable to respond and react in a calm and logical way to your circumstances.

Unless you've experienced labour yourself, it's quite difficult to imagine how the combination of tiredness, intense pain and extraordinary biochemical and muscular processes can leave you so unable to think coherently. I, for example, never thought I would become so fatalistic at 8cm dilated. Grin

I think a lot of freebirth advocates either don't realise this or forget this; there's very much this idea of "controlling" the situation. In truth, you are never so out of control of a situation in your life as when you are in labour. You can't stop the process and have a break to calmly think about what to do next. You might know something isn't right, but when you've contraction crashing into contraction, you can't really do anything much about it because you aren't in the situation where you can even think about it clearly.

So someone else has to be there to make those calls for you in your best interest, and you need someone who has some sort of experience so they don't pursue useless and ineffectual solutions.

But your friend, as it is her first, won't necessarily realise all this. She doesn't yet know how her body handles birth, let alone what her birthing personality is.

Personally, I'd let the realisation quietly dawn on them both. If it doesn't, there's probably nothing you could say to change their minds anyway. Sometimes, you just can't save people from themselves.

GimmeAy · 06/07/2020 23:50

If you tell women that they are completely in control and their body will just "know" what to do, then you are also by definition telling them that when it goes wrong they are responsible for that too. It can be soul destroying.

I completely agree with this and also suffered PND after almost losing my baby.

Balibabe1 · 06/07/2020 23:55

I also think when the pain of the first contraction hits she may well change her mind rapidly!

QualityFeet · 06/07/2020 23:55

You don’t have to think she is right to be supportive of her right to decide what is best for her.

With the changes pregnancy brings she may change her ideas, be able to have MW support in ways that work for her. You have no idea what she is scared of - it’s often things women won’t share like previous abuse or DV.

Support her and her choice - that principle matters.

MillyDilly · 06/07/2020 23:58

@MillyDilly well, arguably everything a pregnant woman does puts her baby at risk. Including having a vaginal birth in hospital - the stats on poor outcomes for babies from VBs are actually shocking.

YES, there are risks to everything but it’s ridiculous to equate the risk of having a VB in hospital to having a free birth with nobody medically qualified or any medical equipment around. Show me the stats that prove the two carry equal risk.

student26 · 06/07/2020 23:59

I had a pretty much perfect pregnancy. Probably would have been thought to be ok for a home birth. Horrible labours with both of my babies, including baby’s heart rate dipping dangerously low for my second birth. I have no doubts that I and baby would have died in either labour if I’d chosen to do Freebirth. It’s a good idea if there were 100% going to be no problems but no one ever knows and it’s an utterly, utterly, completely selfish thing to do. She’s clearly not thinking about her baby or herself to be honest. I always thought how bad can birth and labour be? I had no idea.

SleepingStandingUp · 07/07/2020 00:03

You don’t have to think she is right to be supportive of her right to decide what is best for her. it depends what supportive in this context means. I couldn't sit there and keep discussing this with her and here wants jse expects to happen etc. Accept its your choice? Yes
Accept its your choice to make? Yes. Sit there whilst you talk about it? Too triggering.

MrsSnitchnose · 07/07/2020 00:07

The problem is that women who are set on this approach will avoid such programmes as "forcing women into hospital by making them believe they cannot do it alone"

No way I could have done it alone. I was 5 weeks early and DS was footling breech. I had 3 midwives and a consultant in the room. Consultant put his hands in and turned DS repeatedly on his way out, managing to avoid an emergency csection (at my request. Didn't want to be cut if I could help it)

MadameMeursault · 07/07/2020 00:08

She’s insane. I was low risk and I haemorrhaged after DD’s birth. I would at best have needed a blood transfusion and at worst bled to death had I been 12 miles from a hospital. I don’t really think you can be true to yourself if you support her.

IWantT0BreakFree · 07/07/2020 00:16

You don’t have to think she is right to be supportive of her right to decide what is best for her.

But OP's friend isn't just asking her to be supportive of her right to choose. That's not what this is about. I don't think anyone is arguing that women shouldn't have autonomy. OP's friend is asking her to actively be positive and "on board" with the idea of free-birthing, not simply with her right to choose a free-birth. It's a crucial distinction.

SleepingStandingUp · 07/07/2020 00:18

They aren't stupid women either, they are well read and fully understand exactly what they're risking. and yet they willingly risk the life of their own child. We spent a week with Dr's telling us twice a day DS might doe and they only stopped because they were told to stop saying it because we knew. I don't think they actually do understand what they're risking, I think they just assume it won't be th, it won't be their baby with the undetected condition or the rare complication

tympanic · 07/07/2020 00:19

Another one whose childbirth experience would have ended very badly if I hadn’t been in hospital.

OP, I suspect the more people voice their opinions to your friend the more adamant she will be that she will do it her way. We’re all naive and have all kinds of crazy ideas until we actually experience childbirth for ourselves. Most of us don’t suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect and believe we know better than those who have been there and the actual experts. Unfortunately like many deniers it will likely take a disaster for them to rethink. And by then it might be too late.

I’d step away if I were you. You’ve said your piece. I couldn’t pretend to support a choice like hers. You sound like a lovely person so it will be her loss. I’ve had to cut contact with friends who demand I fall in line with their way of thinking. Haven’t had a moment of regret about it either. Flowers

Frazzled2207 · 07/07/2020 00:23

Op I couldn’t support this at all. Ask her how her dh would cope with a PPH? This happened without warning to me and I cannot bear to think about what would have happened if I had not had doctors literally moments away.
Hopefully a midwife will knock some sense into her. If she admits to a MW that she doesn’t plan on keeping up appointments hopefully that will set some alarm bells going. It might well be very possible to have a no- intervention home birth that her husband can help with. But to not want any medical backup whatsoever is stupid, worrying and very naive.

BrummyMum1 · 07/07/2020 00:23

I don’t agree that you should be expected to support her decision OP. Why can’t you agree to disagree and still be friends? Surely if she’s going to make such a high risk controversial birth choice then it goes with the territory that friends and family won’t necessarily be on board with her decision.

Drat123 · 07/07/2020 00:27

Yanbu OP. It's her body but that baby has a right to be born in a manner that is safe and low risk.

Early last year I was birth partner for a close friend (baby no.4), low risk and no major issues. Previous births all straight forward and very quick.

This time however, baby's heart rate suddenly dropped, friend's bp rocketed and was rushed into theatre for a c-section. Baby was delivered but needed resuscitation. Friend was then taken back into theatre a second time because of bleeding, and then a THIRD time as the bleeding just wasn't stopping. We were told to prepare for the worst. She lost over 4 pints of blood and the doctors performed a hysterectomy to save her life. It was probably the scariest moment of my life, every second is valuable in these situations. In the debrief we were told she is lucky to still be with us.

OP, things can go wrong suddenly and unexpectedly. You are right to not support her in this foolishness.

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 07/07/2020 00:36

I couldn't support this either. I'm another one who can confidently say me and my baby wold have died. I had HELLP syndrome, I nearly died anyway, I would have had no chance outside of a well equipped hospital.

aNiceBigCupOfFuCoffee · 07/07/2020 00:42

I'd have died if I had attempted this. I had a very positive, chilled out induction, anyone who visited my birthing room commented on how relaxed it was and how calm I was. I laboured nigh on perfectly and reasonable quickly. At delivery however, my baby was stuck, required forceps but she was otherwise fine so maybe you could say if I'd birthed some other place or in a different position that might not have happened, and that she would have been totally healthy. However my massive PPH that they struggled to fix (almost had to have a hysterectomy) that required a 2 night ITU stay would absolutely have lead to my death if I'd not already been in a theatre. If you consider I nearly died in the theatre I imagine the outcome in my front room or a river Hmm would have been unthinkable. My poor DH was in bits knowing I was in the best hands, I can't imagine how he'd have felt being expected to deal with that and watching me die knowing he could do nothing, whilst trying to also juggle a brand new baby who may or may not be healthy. It is absolutely one thing doing it through necessity ie. Help not arriving in time (or having a planned homebirth with medical assistance on hand) but this is another thing entirely.

aNiceBigCupOfFuCoffee · 07/07/2020 00:47

And I absolutely agree with the posters above who say that you blame yourself when you're told you were in control, I have a lot of guilt surrounding the birth and I think a lot of that is due to "positive" messages such as "Birth is a safe and wonderful experience" or "Your body knows how to birth your baby". Well it kind of did, but my baby had other ideas and as it turns out, so did my body. I felt very much as if I'd failed and as I say, you couldn't have met a calmer labouring woman than I was. Me being relaxed wouldn't have stopped the bits of the birth that caused my PTSD and it's quite annoying to hear otherwise.

mathanxiety · 07/07/2020 00:57

"My child would not have survived had I chosen to freebirth 18+ miles away from hospital. For this reason, I cannot pretend that I believe what you are proposing is safe for either you or your baby. Given my traumatic history, I am shocked and hurt that you would demand this of me. Perhaps when you have your baby and understand what it actually is to love your child, you will have an inkling of what it might be like to live with the memory of almost losing them. I support your right to make your own choice. That doesn't mean I have to agree with your choices, and I really think you should consider how insensitive you are being in asking that of a friend who had the childbirth experience that I did."
IWantT0BreakFree

THIS ^^
Send this text to her.

There is something slightly OCD about her desire to keep this a completely private, pure, uncontaminated experience, hoping that doing it alone at home will result in complete autonomy, a perfect experience and a perfect outcome.

She may well have become way over-invested in the lie that 'natural' birth will result in a pain-free delivery because it is her silly womanly fears that will cause her body to seize up and therefore experience pain, not the strenuous internal physical activity that her body is going through.

The hypnobirthing and free birth movements discourage all but the most glowing narratives about these approaches. It's also profoundly misogynistic because it preaches that women should embrace pain and feel guilt for deciding not to. It's prescriptive and it's almost cult-like.

Yes she has the right to be wrong. But @whateveryouneed, you have the right to draw your line in the sand and tell her why you can't get behind her decision.

whatisheupto · 07/07/2020 00:59

OP ask her what birth her baby would choose? Maybe then she'll realise how selfish she's being. Birth is not an ego trip. She should think about what the baby would want if he or she had a voice.

Maggie90 · 07/07/2020 01:01

I would strongly advise against free birthing.

My labour was completely textbook, everything going as expected (water birth). I was progressing well, waters broke and felt the urge to push, midwife checked babies heart rate which had dropped very low and had to get somebody int” to assist and basically shouted that I needed to push him out right now. The cord had wrapped around his neck and his head got stuck. I did get him out unassisted and he was absolutely fine but if I hadn’t had pushed so hard and in a panic it would have taken longer and who knows...

I think it is silly to add risk to anything you do not need to. I know in theory it sounds nice but the price you could potentially pay for that decision could be life shattering.

glitterfarts · 07/07/2020 01:05

My friend was telling me about his wife, a nurse, who had a homebirth and then haemorrhaged badly, and how he felt watching as they performed CPR on her after she started talking to her dead grandmother and then became unresponsive, all in a few minutes.

And how he then had to go home from the hospital and clean up the litres of blood she lost while she was in ICU.

Mine were born in hospital as I had pre-eclampsia and very high BP.
Cord round the neck 3 times, precipitous labours, borderline haemorrhage.

My friend was so focused on having a natural birth that she refused induction when overdue with medical indications it was needed, and her baby died at 41.4 weeks in utero. It wasn't about the baby at all, just about her having the perfect instagrammable birth story and photos.

Not worth it.

Hollyhobbi · 07/07/2020 01:11

My first baby was 10 lbs 2 ozs. And 9 days overdue. That wouldn't have been so bad but she was a transverse lie, that is, she was lying across me, neither head nor feet first!! Happens in 1% of births. It was actually a fantastic student midwife who figured out where dd1 was. She could see dds back arching. I tell ye it was so uncomfortable. I reckon she had no room as I'm less than 5ft tall. That wouldn't have ended well at home for me or dd.