To call out these kids in front of their parents who’ve upset my son?

[KeepYourDistanceFFS]

DS is 9 and struggles socially as he’s quite shy and finds it hard to assert himself. He is well liked but doesn’t have a firm friendship group, not invited for play dates etc. As such he hasn’t had any contact with his school mates over lockdown. He has older siblings though so hasn’t been too lonely.

Anyway I encouraged him to set up a Zoom meet up with his classmates just to chat and have some peer interaction. Only 3 kids joined, one disappeared after a few minutes but two of them sent him messages on the chat function calling him a dickhead and telling him to fuck off before leaving.

He was quite shocked and upset. I am furious on his behalf that he found the courage to reach out and got that in response .

He has a day next week where he has to go into school. There’s a big chance we will see both the kids and their parent's while queuing up to go in. I know he won’t stick up for himself as frustratingly he worries about getting other people into trouble, and one of these DC has been very mean to him on lots of occasions since they started school, the mother seems to be oblivious.

WIBU to loudly call these kids out on what they said to DS in front of their parents and demand an explanation?

I think that calling the kids little shits, saying they’re not good kids etc is out of line.

Their behaviour was poor if it is as the way the OP described. Good kids do stupid/horrible things. It doesn’t mean they’re awful people or their parents don’t care or didn’t raise them correctly.

They don't have to be awful people to be little shits. They are little shits, they are 9, they know what they are doing.

Are you going to stand next to him all his life shouting at people who don't like him? Find him some activities and friends he likes. sounds like the zoom thing was a lame parent idea, not your son's own choice. And please, don't slice my head off with those rotor blades

Find him some activities and friends he likes

Easier said than done right now.

Your son was upset. He'll be over it alarmingly quickly. You are making his temporary problem some kind of personal vendetta of your own, that he won't thank you for.

What makes you think he will be over this alarmingly quickly and that this is a temporary problem? Reading the OP's posts her child has been targeted by one of the other children involved before, was shocked and upset, doesn't get invited to playdates etc... why are you so keen to minimise this sort of bullying? Adults like you allow bullies to thrive by refusing to recognise their actions as such.

You are losing sight that it's about your son, and you're making it all about you and your outrage. Again, keep a note, and act if there is a second, third incident

I read OP as mother who is concerned about her son, not as someone 'making it all about her'. She is allowed to be outraged that her son is treated in this way- far better than being some sort of painfully cool laid back parent who refuses to recognise when someone is mistreated and does the 'oh they'll be over it before you realise don't get involved' thing.

All through this thread there are posts from people saying no, op, don't intervene, don't do anything to safeguard you son, the bullies might not like it. I wonder why bullying is such a problem and why it goes on so long... maybe because there are so many people who take this pathetic approach?

Everything about OP's posts signal that her son is the victim of long term isolation and bullying; she has evidence that is has happened and wants to act to help her son, and this is the sort of advice given- not to say anything in case it makes things worse and accusations that she isn't focussing on her son? No wonder bullies feel they can get away with it!

Wow, no wonder so many school bullies continue with their behaviour judging many of the victim blaming responses here.

As a parent you have a duty of care to your children and the children yours are bullying.

The behaviour needs addressing because it can have long term, far reaching consequences on the victim(s).

Where do some of you get off? Suggesting the child being bullied must be the problem?

Not liking someone is never an excuse to verbally abuse them

It's not biggie not to be liked, can't please everyone

But be at the very least civil

Precisely carpballs

Formerbabe - tell me bout it; I'm like Miranda some days with the fruit heads out to chat to! And the there's Mumsnet...

It's not technically to do with the school but as your DS's teacher I'd want to know so I could keep an eye on him in class and also sort out a playtime friend/seating arrangements away from these boys. If it happens several times on purpose it'll be classed as bullying and hopefully they'll have a good policy. Also as a parent I'd also want to know. However, as a teacher I've found that a small proportion of parents don't care so don't expect too much

@KeepYourDistanceFFS

Well as I thought school not really interested.

I will approach the parents. I don’t care about humiliating them or what the parents think of me, why on earth would I, when they’ve raised kids like this?

It wouldn’t have been so bad if it had happened during a weekend or normal school holidays, but after over 3 months of lockdown to have the first contact with a schoolmate like that at something they chose to participate in is disgusting!

Well you don't care about what's best for your DS, then, because doing that will make his life infinitely worse.

You sound immature and lacking in impulse control or the ability to anticipate other people's reactions. And, unlike your DS's mates, you don't have the excuse of being 9.

Jeepers I am a complete wimp when it comes to confrontation but as a mum of a 9 year old who has really struggled with the concept of zoom... if one of my daughters classmates did this... I would certainly be contacting the parents.

I would put it in a message form rather than public confrontation. Explain to the parents that your son plucked up the courage to use this and their behaviour has deeply upset him.

You might feel justified in your approach but how on earth will it do anything to improve things for your son?

Yes let the parents know, there was an occasion where my son was being quite mean to a boy from his class online, nothing terrible just name calling and falling out that got a bit out of hand and I'm so glad that mum got in touch with me to let me know so that I could put a stop to it! I would hate to think it could have carried on and may have got worse and now my son knows never to do it again. I was gutted that this happened I never thought he would behave like that. Definitely let the parents know it how else will it stop.

What do you mean the school weren't really interested? Did they say they would deal with it but you didn't think their response was enough?
There's a lot going on in your posts. At our school, you would have been told the DCs shouldn't have been on Zoom anyway. There are safeguarding concerns about it and it's for age 16+. So our school might have lettered parents saying please don't let your DCs use technology they are too young for, and if you decide as a parent to let them do that, then supervise it tightly.
Your posts are heavy on punishment and calling out and light on how you're helping your DS. You've brought it to the attention of the school. Now focus on helping your DS to find and interact safely with friends.

That’s really awful!
I can’t imagine any of DS’s friends saying such things but there’s the odd older child who might say those sorts of things because they think it makes them ‘cool’. I think I’d have intervened pretty quickly if it had happened during a zoom chat.

Yes, I think you need to bring it to the parent’s attention.

My son started in reception in one school and then we moved house. He’s 11 now and made some really good friends in his new school. He didn’t have any best buddies at his old school but loves his new school. The new school is much smaller with mixed age groups in the classes so maybe this helps?
Where we live now, he’s got another 2 years before he goes to secondary school.

Have you considered moving schools?

It's not about victim blaming. Although we don't know her son was faultless and neither does she. She heard them laughing along. All she's got after that is a message saying F Off.

How does she know her DS didn't say something just like that first? But didn't type it.

Maybe her DS did nothing wrong. Maybe he took something too far or did something inappropriate. Something's happened between merry laughter and F off.

She can prove the F off. Because it's written. Maybe the other boy said much worse things verbally. Maybe her DS did. Or not.

OP notes that he doesn't really have any friends. This could be as a result of bullying, yes. It's not the only reason though, albeit I feel that's the only reason OP will say it is. He could just be very few people's cup of tea, there's nothing wrong with that, but as a parent, if you see your child failing to make any friendships, that's what should be looked into. Help him with his lack of social abilities. Help him make friendships.

Don't try and force him into ones that aren't naturally there, and get angry at the negative outcome.

I think speaking loudly about it might end up with a load of screaming and shouting and unless you are sure you can behave with dignity, even if the other parents couldn’t care less or react aggressively, then it’s better to find another way.

‘Loudly call these kids out’

Come on OP give your head a wobble and act like the adult you are. Use your initiative to find the contact details of the parents of the children involved.

@KeepYourDistanceFFS

Well as I thought school not really interested.

I will approach the parents. I don’t care about humiliating them or what the parents think of me, why on earth would I, when they’ve raised kids like this?

It wouldn’t have been so bad if it had happened during a weekend or normal school holidays, but after over 3 months of lockdown to have the first contact with a schoolmate like that at something they chose to participate in is disgusting!

Erm, well that depends on what outcome you want?

Are you trying to reach a situation where this doesn't happen any more?

Or are you just looking for an opportunity to vent your anger?

If you just want to vent your anger and don't care if it happens again or not, then go for it. Humiliate the kids and the parents too if you feel like it. It won't help your DS though.

If you actually want to help your DS then it should matter to you what the parents think of you. If they think you're deranged and you get off on the wrong foot with them because you're attacking their DC in public, then they're not really going to want to cooperate with you to discipline their DC are they?

You want to drop the attitude that the parents are at fault, too. All kids can be awful to others at times. Some more than others of course, but you really can't start from assuming the parents are to blame if you need them to cooperate with you.

Speak to the parents. BE POLITE! Think how you'd feel in yous shoes and how you'd like someone to talk to you if your DS upset someone else.

I'd be mortified if my DS treated someone else like this and I'd make sure he apologised, ban his screen time for a considerable time and ban him from seeing the kids he did this with - if you spoke to me nicely about it.

If the first I heard of this was when you started having a go at my child in the playground I'd judge you, assume you're deranged and it wouldn't get dealt with properly.

YABVU to want to publicly call the boys out in front of their parents and anyone else around, and you would make things worse for your son.

The school would normally handle this stuff between classmates. What was their response that you find unsatisfactory?

As upset as you're for your child, loudly and publicly calling them out in front of their parents (who know nothing about it!) is never going to go well.

If someone came up to me ranting about my child in a public place, there is no way I would engage with them. I wouldn't know if what they were saying was true for a start and my instinct would be to protect my child. Also if it were me, I wouldn't risk getting into a public slanging match with another parent, in the middle of the playground

Any child could be the 'little shit' in any given situation. How would you and your child want to be treated if it was the other way around? They are 9yo children and they don't always get things right.

YABU - it will make things worse for your son

@KeepYourDistanceFFS

Well as I thought school not really interested.

I will approach the parents. I don’t care about humiliating them or what the parents think of me, why on earth would I, when they’ve raised kids like this?

It wouldn’t have been so bad if it had happened during a weekend or normal school holidays, but after over 3 months of lockdown to have the first contact with a schoolmate like that at something they chose to participate in is disgusting!

Oh OP. Please don't. Your son is the only one who will be negatively affected if you do this.

If the other children really are "little shits" as others have said, this can only have been learnt from very bad parents - who are not going to engage with you.

It's also possible that they are not "little shits", but just ordinary, annoying children.

I think you also have to entertain the possibility - though may not be even remotely the case: I'm not 'victim blaming' - that your DS also said or did something to these children either then or on a previous occasion. Or do you genuinely believe that your child would "never do that"? IME, all children are capable of being pretty vile. Parents of only children (obviously, I don't know if your DS is an only child) see this side of their children less often than parents of children with siblings, but the less pleasant side is still there. It just doesn't have the same opportunities to emerge. My children have always been delightful individually and foul collectively.

You would also have to brace yourself for the other parents, if they are genuinely the types to raise "little shits" to invent things that your DS has said or done.

It's a complete can of worms. Who did you contact at school? If it was his form teacher and you were dissatisfied with the response, I suggest you look up the school's anti-bullying policy (almost certainly available online) and follow the procedure to the letter. The form teacher is generally the first port of call, with it then escalating up the food chain.

If your DS is genuinely the victim of bullying, the school has a duty to act, and if the school fails to do this, there needs to be a paper trail. However, it's also possible that it isn't really bullying - just random unkindness which is undesirable but not uncommon in 9 yr olds.

I do understand your gut feeling, though. There's nothing worse than someone hurting your child.

Parents of only children (obviously, I don't know if your DS is an only child) see this side of their children less often than parents of children with siblings, but the less pleasant side is still there. It just doesn't have the same opportunities to emerge. My children have always been delightful individually and foul collectively.

As a parent of an only, I started to bristle automatically as soon as I saw the phrase... but this is a really good point and not something that had ever occurred to me before. I'll certainly bear this in mind for future if I ever hear of DS doing something I can't imagine him doing (so far his occasional bouts of foulness have been fairly mundane).