To call out these kids in front of their parents who’ve upset my son?

[KeepYourDistanceFFS]

DS is 9 and struggles socially as he’s quite shy and finds it hard to assert himself. He is well liked but doesn’t have a firm friendship group, not invited for play dates etc. As such he hasn’t had any contact with his school mates over lockdown. He has older siblings though so hasn’t been too lonely.

Anyway I encouraged him to set up a Zoom meet up with his classmates just to chat and have some peer interaction. Only 3 kids joined, one disappeared after a few minutes but two of them sent him messages on the chat function calling him a dickhead and telling him to fuck off before leaving.

He was quite shocked and upset. I am furious on his behalf that he found the courage to reach out and got that in response .

He has a day next week where he has to go into school. There’s a big chance we will see both the kids and their parent's while queuing up to go in. I know he won’t stick up for himself as frustratingly he worries about getting other people into trouble, and one of these DC has been very mean to him on lots of occasions since they started school, the mother seems to be oblivious.

WIBU to loudly call these kids out on what they said to DS in front of their parents and demand an explanation?

If the kids behave that way at 9 it’s unlikely they’ll be the kind of parents who will care.

Chat to teacher...

Plus - gutted for your DS, especially as he is trying to reach out to other kids
But as loads of others have said - please dont try and sort this out by calling kids out, or approaching parents. It rarely ends well that way, especially as you have no hard proof which they will understandably want to see.

You need to get a copy of the chat as a pp has detailed, and speak to the school before he goes in. Don't speak to the boys directly, that's seen as aggressive as you're the adult.

You should model appropriate behaviour for him by dealing with it privately with the boys’ parents. It won’t end well by calling the boys out in public. For one thing, your son won’t appreciate it.

Download the chat box and make it a school issue, but rethink the public rollockings.

I have a 9 year old and if he typed the words "fuck off" towards another child I don't even know how upset I'd be - I'm sure he's heard the phrase but to use it towards someone else in that way seems brutal for 9 years old. I'd appreciate a heads-up from the other parent, though, so you'd probably be best contacting the parents individually. Doing it in public automatically gets people defensive and if they've anything about them they'll be mortified by their DC.

Your poor DS, I hope he's not hurt by this for too long.

Don't do it. Not because it's ok for them to speak that way to your son. But don't mistake how offended you are as how offended he is.

Children move on. Especially boys. And sadly, yes, some are little swines. They won't be the only ones to tell your DS to F off, and your DS won't be the only one they've told to F off either. It's sadly commonplace - I was aghast at some of the things DS experienced first or second hand at primary school. It's not like when we were there, at all.

Note it. If anything else happens, then act on it. But for now, leave it, he's the one who has to see them (in September) every day.

If you're going to speak to the parents don't do it in front of the kids. I was bullied at school and my parents making a scene in front of the bullies wouldn't have helped me in the slightest.

I went to primary school with someone whose father and older brother decided to tackle some 5 year olds who had picked on her. They ended up banned from the school premises permanently, and no-one would allow their child to be friends with the little girl because of her family's behaviour that day.

I would check emails for a transcript of the zoom chat, and then push the school further as a PP suggested.

Don't do it! Your son will be humiliated, the parents will be angry and the bullies will ramp up. This is exactly the kind of over-the-top reaction they were hoping for.

I will approach the parents. I don’t care about humiliating them or what the parents think of me, why on earth would I, when they’ve raised kids like this?

Because your son will face the repercussions?

If they're all as bad as you say they aren't likely to take your challenge well are they?

I would keep pursuing the school rather than the parents.

Don't publicly do it!!!! Especially with your kid there. It could end humiliating him even more. And telling school will probably not help anyway :( used to make it worse for me as a kid, not better.

Also.. You shouldn't have forced him to do this zoom meeting!!
:( These kids shouldn't have said what they said either (obviously) but by the looks, one of these kids is crap anyway with an oblivious /enabling mum. Try reasoning with the other mum perhaps. In private. And not via text.

Just to be really clear, what I would want to do, (sarcasm in earlier post) and what I would do are different.

Calm, rational approach needed.

Can't believe some of this thread.

Projection? Much?!!!

Calm heads needed all round please. Although I am not calm. I am venting.

1. You cannot read into an OPs entire character and attitude to life by their username. Ffs at the end of their username means absolutely zero. If we had to have user names to avoid offence on mn we'd 'Tiredintolerantdividedbybrexitcovidfeedingsahmwohmwashingdarkedonpenisbeakerterftransnetmumsnetnolongersafe orwelcomingffs'

1. No one said bad kid means bad parent. Different kids, different parenting, different standards, certainly different support needs at the moment

1. Friendships form and fall out. Normal. In my experience with kids, multiple times a day. Normal, ebb and flow.

1. Paraphrase 'looks worse because you set up the zoom call'. I'm sorry, wtaf? Yeah, OP should really have thought that one through and protected those poor callers from the temptation of her son. Would have been better to justify common or garden spontaneous banter eh? Or if he was invited on their call, and then they'd been mean? Effect on him, same... Evidence.... Zero, potential action... Zero....

1. Dick head, fuckoff from 9 year old?Absolutely not normal language, not OK to be normalised, not OK to think it's OK to throw around as an insult. Very definitely not OK to be written.

'say it in anger, say it in drink, never ever say it in ink'

I've really lost count of the times I've used this quote. Dismissing employees with evidence created by their own hand, warning people about stuff they've put on social media. I can't stress enough how important it is to teach our kids about their digital footprint. At 9 it's young, but online it's not just banter. It has really important consequences.

If you would not say it face to face, do not input or say it to a screen. No matter what privacy settings you have, or data privacy policies are in place, there is always the chance it will be discovered once sent. And once on social media, easily identifiable by name, face... Public forever. And yes, adverse social media searches are common in recruitment.

Kids that think it's OK to call their friends dick heads online at 9 need support and education. In a few short years they'll be the age of criminal responsibility. I bet lots have phones now. Online abuse is a criminal offence. Sending, sharing, accessing nude photos (Inc of themselves) is an offence - kids at secondary schools have been dealt with under the legislation. I'm am so frustrated by the apathy 'we'll talk about it when they're older'. Yeah, maybe the kids are just larking about and there is nothing more serious, but I can tell you as wife of teacher, and a primary volunteer, MH volunteer, and from relevant previous & current job experience, kids comfortable with using that language online at that age should raise flags.

Continue to pursue through school OP as per previous advice, and as per encouraging your son in himself.

If you want to speak to the parents, I'd only do it if you feel able to have a quiet word with them and to tell them what you saw/heard calmly. I'd also explain that I was going to go to the school about it but that you just wanted them to be aware of this. Going in guns blazing never ends well. They will just get defensive. If your tone is concilliatory with the idea that 'most children do stuff they shouldn't but of course they need to be corrected' that is likely to be more productive than anything else.

Of course you do get some parents who will just get upset and react badly anyway or go on the attack as a defensive mechanism

@KeepYourDistanceFFS

Well as I thought school not really interested.

I will approach the parents. I don’t care about humiliating them or what the parents think of me, why on earth would I, when they’ve raised kids like this?

It wouldn’t have been so bad if it had happened during a weekend or normal school holidays, but after over 3 months of lockdown to have the first contact with a schoolmate like that at something they chose to participate in is disgusting!

You are about to be your child's worst nightmare. He will be mortified, and the kids who were mean to him will be bent on revenge because his mum embarrassed their mums.

Seriously. Just think about it. These are not good kids. And their parents may well not be good people. Your rant will have no positive outcome for anyone but you, in feeling that you've got it off your chest.

My grandson had this happen to him at primary school. Even worse, the boy involved would then swear to be his BFF and a week later he'd humiliate him at school - this pattern was repeated for some weeks. My daughter, very sensibly IMO, used this as an opportunity to encourage DGS to choose his friends more carefully (a proper friend will always have your back, etc), to see it as being the other boy's issue and not his, that there are a lot of nasty people in life generally so try not to take it personally, etc, etc. It helped toughen him up a bit so he was ready for even more mean behaviour at secondary school! I'm not saying don't alert his teacher but please don't speak to boys or parents - they could be just as hateful and then the situation could get worse.

Don't take it up with the parents, take it up with the school.

@mrsBtheparker cyber bullying is a huge issue and many schools take it seriously

Ultimately it's the parents' responsibility to monitor their child's internet use, if it as bed as is claimed it should then become a police matter.

I would strongly advise against going to the kids or their parents directly; that rarely goes down well and tends to achieve the opposite if what you want. Contact the school / their class teacher instead so they can get both sides of the story and set up a session where they talk about friendships and being kind. It is school-related, even though it didn't happen at school (they are classmates). I would also refrain from labelling these boys as 'bullies' based on a single occurrence.

Little shits, they deserve hell, but no, I wouldn't call them out infront of everyone, for no other reason than I wouldn't want to embarrass my DS by letting other people know what happened.
Go to the school. Their parents might be oblivious to it all.

Don’t cause a scene in the school playground, the parents will think you’re an idiot and the kids will tease your son something rotten. Approach the parents directly and calmly discuss don’t as you put ‘call them out’ in the line up. I’m cringing just thinking about it! Maybe try encourage your son to engage with kids who haven’t previously been mean to him, you might have more success.

I would talk to school but in a formal way, not just a chat with the teacher. I would not talk to the boys or the parents - I am often amazed by things that other parents seem to be blinkered about when it comes to their own children. Often parents who I would have expected to be more self aware!
I would request that school put out a formal note to all parents of that year group saying but not naming names and make it clear that such behaviour in school would result in possible exclusion.

A different scenario recently but I spoke to DS's friends about their behaviour. It had been going on a while, and I wanted to get to the bottom of it, hoping that it was just silly games that were getting out of hand. I was gentle about it, wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, but also wanted them to think about how they would feel in DS's position. Ive known these boys several years so felt comfortable speaking to them, I then messaged their mums to say I'd spoken to them and was happy to speak to them about it to.

DS was upset that I spoke to them, but ultimately I felt the current situation was already pretty awful so how could it get any worse. As it is thankfully things have now settled down, but I'm keeping a close eye and if I think its getting out of hand again - and DS doesn't seem to be able to deal with it alone- then I'll approach the parents again

My dd is a similar age and I have called out kids in the street for trying to put her down while she was trying to mind her own business in her own garden. I think if it is happening in the moment you can call kids out but otherwise deal with other adults.

I'd quietly ask the parents if you could exchange phone numbers when you see them in person at the school - jut say you need to have a chat with them about the children but obviously now (in front of everyone) isn't the best time.

Personally, I'd speak with the parents before involving the school. It's quite possible that they have no idea what their boys have done and will be horrified - and deal with it right away. I had to text the Mum of one of DS's "friends" a few months ago about her son's behavior and it was fine. He's a moody child and when he was in a strop, he'd say nasty things to DS to upset him and DS asked me to intervene. The Mum was mortified...but she knows her son is moody spoilt and he's done it to other kids.

I'm always in favour of speaking directly to people before escalating to the school, especially as it didn't happen during school time.

Your son needs to practise setting boundaries - you should sit down together and work out how HE is going to do this ie message them something back. I think you should speak to school. If you speak to parents you will allienate your son further. They will see him as weak for not saying anything back and letting his mum take over. They will label him a tattle tail. He needs to stand up for himself.

@KeepYourDistanceFFS

OP. You are disgusted. You are outraged. You are fuming at these little "shits"

You are. Not your son. Who was laughing along, quite happily it seemed, then you don't know what exactly transpired, you've seen a message saying F off.

Your son was upset. He'll be over it alarmingly quickly. You are making his temporary problem some kind of personal vendetta of your own, that he won't thank you for.

I know you feel like they should be called out. You are losing sight that it's about your son, and you're making it all about you and your outrage. Again, keep a note, and act if there is a second, third incident.