AIBU to comment on DH's parenting

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Bit of background. We have two DCs aged 4 and 16 months. We've all been at home since lockdown began (we're in Wales so restrictions haven't been eased as much as in England), DH working full time and me part time. Monday's and Fridays are my days off. Neither DC has been back to any childcare setting yet, so it's been intense, but no where near as bad as I would've pictured if someone told me about this scenario a year ago

DH didn't have the best example of parenting growing up, his dad is a bit of a waste of space and never showed much interest, wasn't very tolerant of children. His DM is quite traditional and adores our DCs but I think there was a fair bit of her bad mouthing FIL to the DCs, arguments and playing favourites with her own daughter. Nevertheless DH has happy memories of his childhood and we have a good relationship with MIL who has seen the DC a fair few times in lockdown for garden visits/walks.

DS age 4 is lovely. In lockdown he's been quite intense and needs an awful lot of input from us, is needy etc, but perfectly manageable compared with a lot of children I hear about. Bad behaviour is usually addressed effectively with either reward charts or consequences eg loss of tablet time.

DH is constantly on at DS, about small things which I think should just be ignored/not made a big deal out of. I'm impatient and won't tolerate things like throwing toys (toys get removed for a set time), nastiness to baby DC, so IMO I'm not letting too much go. Examples of the small things DH will pick at are:

• sitting at the table properly/spilling food. DS tends to sit cross legged or with his knees up, is clumsy and spills a bit of milk from his cereal on his pjs. He doesn't like wet clothes so sometimes will make a fuss. I ignore this, I might suggest he won't spill if he sits properly with his legs under the table, but I don't push it. DH will nag about the spilling, force DS to sit properly, DS ends up getting cross and shouting at DH, DH then gets cross...etc etc. Tiny things like this escalate a lot.
• messing round when he's meant to be getting dressed, deliberately putting things on backwards
• making "too much" noise when baby DS is napping. The noise is just normal kids' noise, baby isn't a great napper so I always try and keep noise to a minimum any way, but the things DH will pick at is eg closing the doors too loudly, dropping toys on the hard floor etc
• general irritating behaviour/pestering. Pulling on DH's clothes, getting his food covered hands on DH's clothes, touching food when we're trying to prepare it for lunch etc

This list is just an example, but the reason it bothers me so much is because it always escalates. DH always comes across as impatient/angry when addressing these types of issues. I can see that DS probably feels micromanaged, so he gets angry, which in turn makes DH more angry, it often ends up in DS in tears.

I suggested the book How to talk...as I read it when I found DS' behaviour really challenging at the start of the year, and I found it really helpful in still addressing some behaviours but in a different way that doesn't escalate into a row/tears. DH said he would read it too but he downloaded it on his kindle about 6 months ago and hasn't got very far.

Sorry, this is so long but if you've stuck with me, the AIBU is that I'm at the point now where I'm fed up and will call DH on the behaviour. So this morning the cereal/milk spilling incident happened (we're talking drips of milk spilled, not a bowl's worth) and when DS inevitably got stroppy with DH for making him sit properly and pushing his chair under the table, and DH responded with "don't you dare shout at me..." I told him he should've just ignored it, who cares that he spills a bit of milk. DH then has a go at me for micro managing him, but I only call him out when I see him micro managing DS. This is all in front of DS by the way, I try so hard not to argue in front of him but in lockdown he is almost always there. The only time he's not is bedtime, so I do tend to call things out when I see them.

DS' mood is often affected for the rest of the day then, if there's been shouting from DH and him crying. It's generally me who then has to handle him as I'm working PT. Plus, I don't really want him to be an unhappy child who's constantly picked at.

So AIBU? Should I just bite my tongue, walk away?

I'm really interested to hear about what others do when it comes to co-parenting.

He's four! Of course he spills things, drops things and makes noise in the house! Shouting at him doesn't help, it only teaches him that shouting is how we manage relationships and it shouldn't be.

Ideally, you and your DH need to get onto the same page so there is never any need for you to step between them. The two key questions for you and your DH is what expectations are reasonable for a 4yo and whether you want a happy, loving family or a sort of shouty domestic bootcamp. 🙄

Wow, I cannot believe that some of you won't tolerate these behaviours listed. A 4 year old getting food on his clothes? And sitting with his legs crossed at the table instead of legs straight down? Just, wow

I imagine co-parenting with you is a joy If your DH disagrees with your approach, does he get an equally exaggerated response for having a different opinion? At 4 your DS has the ability to control some of these behaviours and you're letting them slide because, in the scheme of things, they're unimportant to you. Well, they're not unimportant to your husband, so if you want to create a clear, consistent message for your son you need to find a middle ground and support him.

Also, undermining your husband infront of your son is completely unacceptable. You're creating the message that your discipline is the only discipline that matters and your DS is already picking up on that and choosing to wind up your DH by doing things - only to him - which he knows will annoy him. How do you think that might make your DH feel? I grew up in a house like this and believe me, in another few years your DS will have learned the art of manipulation even better and be well and truly playing his parents against each other. The time for presenting the united front is now

The things that your dh gets angry at, would make me angry. I would expect them from a 2 year old, not a 4 year old. He will never stop the annoying behaviours if he's never corrected on them.

I think your DH is over-reacting and has high expectations of behaviour from DS, and doesn't parent him very effectively if discipline ends up in falling out and DS crying.
I don't think the behaviour is the problem, DS is young and will learn, the problem is the dynamic between the three of you.
DH needs to chill out, you need to back DH up when he does discipline, DS needs to listen and learn, which he will.

Sorry OP, I'm another who wouldn't tolerate that kind of behaviour from a 4yo. They need to sit properly at the table, wash their hands before coming for a cuddle etc. Of course I wouldn't expect perfect behaviour but they would get reminded and wouldn't get their meal until they sat down properly, for example.

If you tolerate this kind of thing at four, are you going to tolerate it when he's 6? Or eight? At what age does it go from acceptable to unacceptable? Why not just make him do it properly from the beginning?

In terms of pulling on clothes, he never does this to me, he tends to only do it to DH, I suspect because he knows it will wind him up

And you think that's ok, that your 4 year old is purposely trying to Anny his dad, and you think it should just be ignored?
4 year olds are definitely capable of being malicious.

The main problem is

"DH always comes across as impatient/angry when addressing these types of issues. "

Thats the problem here.

It s fine to encourage correct promote good behaviour

Modelling shouting and anger is not the way forward.

You should not be condoning or backing up shouty angry behaviour from dh

Backing up promotion of hold behaviour is one thing.
Letting confonjng accept ing dh continue toget angry over a child s legs bring crossed is different

As pp says is it family or military boot camp?

I don't think the OP said she was ok with the behaviour her husband is trying to correct, just that she doesn't agree with how he is dealing with it. If you shout and intimidate for little things, what do you then do for the big things, such as deliberately destructive behaviour and meanness to smaller children/animals? Hit them?

This is why kids can’t sit nicely in a cafe and disturb other people. At four he should be able to sit properly at the table. It sounds like you’re too soft and your husband is too shouty. You need to find a common ground. Manners are important.

@ChaosRising

I don't think the OP said she was ok with the behaviour her husband is trying to correct, just that she doesn't agree with how he is dealing with it. If you shout and intimidate for little things, what do you then do for the big things, such as deliberately destructive behaviour and meanness to smaller children/animals? Hit them?

She's not correcting the behaviour at all, which implies she doesn't see it as a problem.

I don't think shouting is necessarily the right way to deal with it, but that doesn't mean the DH is going to start hitting his kids!

Thank you everyone for the replies. I can see that I'm 100% being unreasonable in pulling DH up in front of DS, which I knew anyway really as I wouldn't ask on here otherwise. I'm determined to nip this in the bud as I do know how important a united front is, as admitted I'm really controlling so I will work on this.

It's not that I'm ok with little behaviours as such, but all the parenting advice I've read/been given has always been to ignore behaviour that you think is attention seeking or minor irritating behaviour. I will ask DS to be quiet if he is being noisy (in his defence he is actually really quiet most of the time when DS2 is asleep, and he has learned in the morning to whisper etc if he wants to speak to us) but if he then closes a door too loudly or drops a toy, I won't respond angrily. Things like this can be annoying, but I very much believe in picking my battles. DS has always responded better to "gentle" parenting and tips such as in the How to talk...book, rather than things like time outs.

The sitting thing, like I said I can't get worked up if his legs are crossed. If he drops milk or food on his clothes and makes a fuss, I tell him he can get changed but I don't pander to it by getting him a change of clothes. I also don't pay attention to the fuss, I've always found genuinely ignoring whining and just going about whatever I'm doing stops it much quicker than telling him to stop whining, which I think just gives him more attention.

You’re saying yes but your head is shaking no with that last post.

Your DH shouldn’t rise to shouting so quickly, but you sound a nightmare to me, recommending books, ignoring behaviour and undermining at every turn. I’d be furious if my husband pullled shit like that with me in front of our DC.

Your son is 4.5 years old, he is not a toddler. If he can behave at preschool as you say he can, then he can at home! So why on earth have you set your standards so low to let him get away with those behaviours? The only one I would let slide is the noise- children are noisy.

The table manners, the petulant stropping, the fussing over clothes he made dirty through his own actions despite warning, the sticking hands on me and touching someone else’s food would not be tolerated here.

My standards are clearly lower than yours, then. It takes all sorts doesn't it.

I'm pretty sure a lot of children strop, yours really never have?

that doesn't mean the DH is going to start hitting his kids!

I didn't mean to imply that he was! It's just that if you shout angrily at every little thing, how do you escalate discipline appropriately for the big things? Shouting at small children is essentially discipline by intimidation and one step away from physical violence. It should be a last resort to show your children they've really crossed the line and is inappropriate as a day-to-day method of discipline for a 4 year old.

OP, I agree with you. I think picking your battles is an essential part of parenting. If you keep gently reminding DS when he is doing something annoying or silly (but not actively misbehaving), eventually it will sink in and he will remember. Especially as you seem to have a lovely relationship with him .

Honestly it sounds like your DH is the only one parenting. He needs to shout and be the bad guy because you are so ineffective.

Lots of kids strop No one is saying they don’t but you don’t sound like your able or really that’s bothered about dealing with his behaviour.

if I read your post without ages included I’d assume your DS was 2 at most. Saying that my just 2 yr old can sit at a table on his chair properly and eat without spilling milk.

I’d just say ‘sit properly please’ and my child would sit properly.

It’s not a massive deal at home, yes, I agree with you there. But he is going to be at school in September; no? He will reminded to behave nicely at the table/pulled up for bad table manners at school. Not harshly, not in reception, but the lunchtime assistants will in my experience say ‘sit nicely’ or ‘put your legs down’. Tbh you will probably notice a big change in him when he starts school.

Just have to say I think there are a lot of Stepford children on this thread!

I'm honestly a little surprised at some of the responses to the OP. Ok, my own DS is younger (2 and a half) and maybe I'll expect a lot more from him when he's 4. But I'm not sure any of the behaviour the OP has described merits a negative and aggressive atmosphere being created in the house by the DH's shouting.

OP, I don't want to read too much into what you're posting or start diagnosing problems where there are none, but maybe your DH could do with having a think about how he can 'reset' his relationship with your DS so it is more positive and joyful. Your DS needs this at the moment - he only has you both and it's a difficult time for children. You need to create joy and fun for him. That's more important than sweating the little things.

My own DH is not perfect (he doesn't help enough around the house/with DS), but one of the lovely things about having him wfh has been seeing DS's eyes light up with happiness when Daddy comes down for lunch or to grab a cup of coffee. We never had that when DH was in the office working long hours. DH chases DS round the house and garden, tumbles him upside down, throws him in the air, blows bubbles, dances to silly music, builds Duplo towers with him and knocks them down again. If he started getting at DS for spilling food or dropping toys, I would be so cross. Those things are things to work on, but they don't matter nearly as much as having a positive and respectful atmosphere in the house.

Just have to say I think there are a lot of Stepford children on this thread!

. What I was thinking, said a lot more succinctly.

How is good table manners stepford?! Raised in a working class household you had to behave at the dinner table there’s nothing snobby about it, and I’m the same with my kid. Can just picture all these middle class professional mummies grinning inanely at their kids whilst they climb all over the table, get their Boden clothes covered in food and generally look foolish 😂

Robotic 4 year olds who don't shout, don't spill, sit still, aren't annoying, wash their hands before they hug you...

If he drops milk or food on his clothes and makes a fuss, I tell him he can get changed but I don't pander to it by getting him a change of clothes

So he has dirty clothes all day otherwise? Tell him to sit properly and stop spilling stuff. I'm with your dh here.

I'm all for picking your battles but you sound like you avoid any battles.

@Ihaventgottimeforthis don’t think anyone’s saying four year olds should be ‘robots’ but if you worded it differently it would be a child who tries their best to have good table manners (with the occasional spill of course!), knows how to sit nicely, tries to be quiet when their baby sibling who they care about is sleeping, who has a bit of awareness about hand washing before eating etc (kids are taught in nursery now in this covid age that hand washing is important, doesn’t mean they remember, but it’s not exactly abuse to remind them is it!) . I don’t think that’s loads to ask of a four year old?! Also the ‘isn’t annoying’ thing - they’re Always Annoying sometimes 😂 !! Although I’ve seen people get slated on here for finding their kids irritating so who knows !